GRAW IS ALL URBAN

[Whisper_44]

Temper it with a couple of more open maps, we could have a great game.

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This statement in the context it was written gives me great hope

[WhiteKnight77]

Remember, I don't know about the open maps, it was just a suggestion on my part.

[ruggbutt]

I'm just not a fan of the original GR FPV where you can't even see the gun! - Feals very strange. I like to see what is firing.

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You can't see a real gun when you're firing it either. Only the sight picture.

[st1nger]

I've shot weapons before, you can see some of it and atleast the sight. Having nothing on the scren just feals weird to me.

Edited August 24, 2005 by st1nger

[Whisper_44]

Remember, I don't know about the open maps, it was just a suggestion on my part.

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Understood, but I see you as the skeptic of skeptics, and to me your comments of late have been encouraging. Unless it's a big swirve on your part (which I doubt). They give me a hope and optimism that I didn't have before you won your little contest.

[Kurtz]

I have been thinking more about this and while I would prefer a balance of map environments ( and there is no reason to believe that GRAW will not have a balance), my aversion to urban only settings is largely due to the fact that they have been done so badly in the recent past.

SWAT 4 and RVS are not comparable because they are police and anti terrorist hostage rescue games that are not about urban street combat, but, are nearly entirely interior, room clearing games. GRAW is a military combat shooter about modern urban city wide street combat. It is the confining and repetitive nature of all interior maps like SWAT 4 that make the SP somewhat boring after a while. GRAW should be primarily and nearly all outside, with large open maps, which offers far more interesting gameplay than the corridor shooters.

I am trying to think of a game that has done this reasonably well. First To Fight is my best example of how not to do it, that game, aside from all the many other problems, was at bottom an arcade corridor shooter.

In the modern era, large scale urban combat is a new development, seen mostly in places like Fallujah, or in Bagdad during the combat phase of the war. GRAW could be ther first modern shooter that does large city scale urban combat well. I don't include BF 2 or JO, because I don't know if they have large city maps and they do not have an SP component.

The key is the size of the maps and their openness.

[Medic]

I have been thinking more about this and while I would prefer a balance of map environments ( and there is no reason to believe that GRAW will not have a balance), my aversion to urban only settings is largely due to the fact that they have been done so badly in the recent past.

SWAT 4 and RVS are not comparable because they are police and anti terrorist hostage rescue games that are not about urban street combat, but, are nearly entirely interior, room clearing games. GRAW is a military combat shooter about modern urban city wide street combat. It is the confining and repetitive nature of all interior maps like SWAT 4 that make the SP somewhat boring after a while. GRAW should be primarily and nearly all outside, with large open maps, which offers far more interesting gameplay than the corridor shooters.

I am trying to think of a game that has done this reasonably well. First To Fight is my best example of how not to do it, that game, aside from all the many other problems, was at bottom an arcade corridor shooter.

In the modern era, large scale urban combat is a new development, seen mostly in places like Fallujah, or in Bagdad during the combat phase of the war. GRAW could be ther first modern shooter that does large city scale urban combat well. I don't include BF 2 or JO, because I don't know if they have large city maps and they do not have an SP component.

The key is the size of the maps and their openness.

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I have to say that I share your opinion. and so tho most of the tactical ppl in the military..

I THINK I saw some where that fighting in the future will be like 75%urban combat...or somthing like that.. I might be wrong about number but I have heard somthing about it..

[smokin]

Remember, I don't know about the open maps, it was just a suggestion on my part.

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Understood, but I see you as the skeptic of skeptics, and to me your comments of late have been encouraging. Unless it's a big swirve on your part (which I doubt). They give me a hope and optimism that I didn't have before you won your little contest.

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In other words, bring out the report already so we can stop reading between the lines of everything you say!!

[maestro]

Indeed, WhiteKnight - you make yourself guilty of the same thing you accuse Grin of: Withholding information.

[MCarr]

In the modern era, large scale urban combat is a new development, seen mostly in places like Fallujah, or in Bagdad during the combat phase of the war. GRAW could be ther first modern shooter that does large city scale urban combat well. I don't include BF 2 or JO, because I don't know if they have large city maps and they do not have an SP component.

The key is the size of the maps and their openness.

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Kurtz, actually BF2 has a good SP environment, 12 maps in 3 different sizes and you can control how many bots you want in the game with a mod. My fav map is Strike at Karkland which depicts a meduim sized middle eastern type city and with the sandy colors and uniforms that resemble what the US troops are wearing in Iraq, you get a good sense of the current conflict. Even with the bots, you can have some serious firefights in that game.

I can only imagine how intense a good multiplayer team oriented match would be in BF2, haven't tried it yet since the BF2 forums are full of idiotic little kids with foul mouths and no sense.

Michael

[WhiteKnight77]

Indeed, WhiteKnight - you make yourself guilty of the same thing you accuse Grin of: Withholding information. 

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I am not withholding information. While I have been a bit cryptic, I have to be at this point due to the fact I am only about half way done with it. I am working to earn some money to get pics developed to go along with the report/interview. I also have follow up questions for Bo to answer and some to clarify. I also have to send it to Ubi to ensure I don't release information that I have that even the normal press (read game sites like Gamespot and magazines) do not have. Ubi could have very well had me sign an NDA, but they didn't. I am not about to burn bridges for myself or anyone else whether here on staff or gamer to get information free of restrictions from a dev just to get out information that people want. Trust me, I have it and am for the most part, happy with what I have seen and have been told.

Even Harntrox, who has been really vocal about changes in gameplay and direction of the game, would rather me get the stuff I can released than release everything and have to turn around and have it all taken back down. Ubi would never let a fan or fan site near a press preview again if I did such a thing. Let us staff keep a good thing going. Who knows, next time, it could be you that is in the hot seat. I can understand the heat I am taking, but once complete, you may just well be surprised.

[Rocky]

I can only imagine how intense a good multiplayer team oriented match would be in BF2, haven't tried it yet since the BF2 forums are full of idiotic little kids with foul mouths and no sense.

Michael

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No need to imagine about it, come join our BF2 squad at Tactical Elite, PM me if you need the TS server details.

[Sup]

How do you see your body in FPS??

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You look down.

[maestro]

I am not withholding information. While I have been a bit cryptic, I have to be at this point due to the fact I am only about half way done with it. I am working to earn some money to get pics developed to go along with the report/interview. I also have follow up questions for Bo to answer and some to clarify. I also have to send it to Ubi to ensure I don't release information that I have that even the normal press (read game sites like Gamespot and magazines) do not have. Ubi could have very well had me sign an NDA, but they didn't. I am not about to burn bridges for myself or anyone else whether here on staff or gamer to get information free of restrictions from a dev just to get out information that people want. Trust me, I have it and am for the most part, happy with what I have seen and have been told.

Even Harntrox, who has been really vocal about changes in gameplay and direction of the game, would rather me get the stuff I can released than release everything and have to turn around and have it all taken back down. Ubi would never let a fan or fan site near a press preview again if I did such a thing. Let us staff keep a good thing going. Who knows, next time, it could be you that is in the hot seat. I can understand the heat I am taking, but once complete, you may just well be surprised.

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Well, now you see how much work there is in just putting out a report on a game, with bureaucracy and all. Imagine how much work goes into making a game, while constantly hearing from those who eagerly await it how much it sucks that no information gets out: Grin has been "taking heat" and after this experience you might see it's not that easy to please a demanding fan base.

Nonetheless, we're all eagerly awaiting your report!

[Poita]

I think the fact that console games, even Halo, or often a bit sparse when it comes to foliage and it's just more convenient to have simple right angled streets.

I don't think fighting in a park is gonna cut it.

I'm sure an expansion pack will cater so the nature lovers.

[st1nger]

Even the foliage in Ghost Recon 2 isn't very desne apart from the swamp level. Like Battlefield Vietnam - we were told it would be thick wooded regions like Vietnam but most of the maps were pretty open, they got it right a few times.

I'd like to see REALLY dense wooded areas and swamp lands and things so you can't see too far and just set up tent and snipe.

[snowpilot]

Personally, I'm glad that Ubisoft is starting to get into CQB. I was one of those who was griping about the lack of realistic CQB in GR1. Yeah, there were some maps with buildings you could enter, but the lack of flashbangs and good CQB support made it really redundant. I would go through mods and find things like MP5s and shotguns, because, frankly, that's whats used in buildings.

And as for the future of warfare, do you honestly think a country like North Korea would waste its army in an open fight with us? HELL NO! No one can challenge us in conventional conflicts, so we WILL be seeing more CQB and urban environments. Don't forget, GR1 was about dealing with a NATO emergency.