Phony SEAL Outing

[WhiteKnight77]

Some of you know that a new member joined the GhostRecon.net forums yesterday and promptly claimed to be a SEAL. When asked for information, he freely game up enough info to get tripped up. Warhawk, your feelings were on the money and the ball was rolling when you PMed me about it. I didn't want to say much as if he was a real SEAL, I didn't want egg on my face.

Besides what he posted in the Real Military Forum, I have this information he provided:

I can understand ENTIRELY how you feel about this level of topic/discussion, as the "posers" are NOT welcome around myself either.

My BUDS # perse' is still classified due to the nature of our operations, and I'm sure you can understand what that all entails.

My Class# for BUD/S however is not classified, and is 107, class rank was #4, Instructors BM2 (SW/DV/SEAL) Pyro and QM1(SW/DV/SEAL) Cadwallader.

CMC at the time was BMCM (SW/DV/SEAL) Brockbader

Actual Grad date was Feb 10th, 1990

Original Assignment: ST2, LEDET Team "C", Little Creek Virginia/Norfolk (depending on how you like your geography)

TAD: Aug 7th 1990 - Mar 21st, 1991

USS Sampson (DDG-10) Stationed Mayport Florida

LEDET Carribean

Forward Deployed, Ops Desert Sheild/Storm

if you need any other info, I'll give you what I can without violating OPSEC, my clearance restrictions or previous mission parameters.

Kristopher Beaver

If your going to do as I think, and check the teams roster and grad stats, you won't find me there...

We where black from week 21.

I know where Little Creek is.

I put it that way since some people like to call Little Creek part of Norfolk.. personally I don't see it that way, 2 very different installations.

I know where Little Creek is.

I put it that way since some people like to call Little Creek part of Norfolk.. personally I don't see it that way, 2 very different installations.

I used to be stationed at NAS Norfolk and I lived across the river in Newport News. I probably flew over Little Creek a few times while I was there. I am a former Marine.

That's cool... what unit?

HMM-774, MAG-46, Det-A

Never had the pleasure of working with that unit personally, however if your 1/2 as good in the field as you are adament about ppl not talking out the sides of their proverbial ass, then you have to be a good group of marines.

I hope you understand my reluctance to give you more "specific" information on my military service. I have been out of the military since August 2000, and have YET to receive an exit debriefing or declassification notice of any type. I am also on a full 4hr standby, and have been since 9/11. The only reason I can even use the team name is due to a "leak" in our lovely intel service Circa 1998 that allowed everyone to know the US still has "black ops" squadrons in theatre around the globe. I'm sure they do now as well, don't think that will ever change.

Considering "OPSEC".. which for me is somewhat of a way of life, you I'm sure understand that this is NOT a secure channel of communications, and also being the internet anyone can portay anything they want to portray, with a reasonalbe amount of clarity IF they do enough research.

So.. I'll leave you with this.. I have my coin, and my budweiser... IF your still in doubt, we'll set up a "meet and greet", and I'll expect you to bring the same (or your marine equivalent).. and I'm sure you know exactely what that entails, the good and the bad.

Otherwise, as my plan naturally is, I'll be keeping somewhat "low key" on my military experience, however, and I'm sure you also feel the same way, I won't let my brothers get smeared by some bad press or nitwit who THINKS they know what it's like to strap up on a daily basis, and do what the job requires. As a marine, you probably feel the same way, as most marines I know personally feel that way and are pretty "shut your mouth punk, or I'll shut it for you" about it.

As Rocky noted in the Member Information thread, said poser was banned when enough information became available. We used 2 different sources to verify said claims were false.

If you claim to be a SEAL, you better be willing to give up a BUD/S number with your full name and class number for verification per the webmasters personal rule.

This goes for other SF type unit claims whether SFG, Force Recon (those boys would most likely rip you a new one), Delta, SAS or any other branch no matter what the country (I am sure we have members here who could help with verification.

[Cpl Ledanek]

when will ppl learn lol...and dammit! It's Marines with a capital "M!"

[the.ronin]

well that and he said this regarding some new ###### planet:

... but this new one moves in a REALLY odd axis from the other planets.  The azimuth on it is unreal.

←

i mean ... CMON.

[warhawk]

@WK

As I have readily made known in the past, and do so now again, anytime.... ANYTIME AT ALL that I can somehow help further such an investigation please don't hesitate to ask. There is nothing I love more in this world, and I do mean nothing, to do than to bust or help bust posers in some way. I just wish I could have played more of a role on this one.

As most people know nothing is more cowardly than someone who tries to ride on the shirt tales of heros. And Hero's is exactly what those people are who wear "the uniform" no matter what country or branch. Especially those in the Spec Op community. No one, though the likes of Hatchetforce may very well disagree with me on this one, has a harder job sometimes than them. All reguadless of what branch they serve for have an important role to play but many times it's those in Spec Op's services that are living out there on the ragged edge.

I for one am glad to see that this situation was handled quickly and decisively. Kudo's to all involved and thank you.

Stout Hearts

|RE|Warhawk

[Whisper_44]

It's such a shame that there are those who feel so feeble & self worthless that they need to pretend to be something they aren't.

Well done gentlemen on smelling the stink before it went too far. And for all of those of you whom have served, I give you my thanks and respect for your service.

With all that said I still miss certain threads

[Sup]

So.. How many times has this happened 'round here?

[warhawk]

Don't know if this will be accepted or not but I would like to ask that all of his posts be edited and replaced with one word. POSER. Fraud works too.

Stout Hearts

|RE|Warhawk

[WhiteKnight77]

We at GhostRecon.net used both AuthentiSEAL and VeriSEAL to authenticate the imposters claims. The attached .pdf is the one I received from VeriSEAL.

20050803224919_SEAL_VERIFICATION___BEAVER__KRISTOPHER.PDF

[pz3]

ST2 is for seals team 2 right?

that doesnt even exist doe sit?

[ZJJ]

Below is the email I received from the team at AuthentiSEAL

Official Reply

NOT A SEAL

Thanks for checking with us - we greatly appreciate your interest in

upholding the honor of the US Navy SEAL Teams, and your search for the

TRUTH.

If the name you provided was spelled accurately, we do NOT have a listing

for anyone named "Beaver, Kristopher" in our entire database of slightly

more than 10,000 names.  Please be aware that I also checked for possible

spelling variations and alternate pronunciations but found none that

matched.

Unless he has undertaken the unlikely action of a full legal name change

since his claimed service with the SEAL Teams, I can state conclusively that

the man NEVER completed SEAL training, and thus he is not now, nor was he

ever a Navy SEAL. While there are other training steps that must be

completed on the path to becoming a SEAL, BUD/S training is the first and

most vital, and that training course is totally unclassified. Without having

first completed BUD/S training, a man cannot go on to become a SEAL. There

are definitely secret SEAL missions, but despite anything the man might have

said, there are NO secret SEALs.

If you choose to confront the man regarding his fraudulent SEAL claims,

please show him this email message and invite him to contact me - a real

SEAL - directly by email with information that will support his claims. I'd

enjoy hearing his stories first hand, but I've extended this offer to

literally thousands of individuals over the last three years, and in all

that time I've received only a scant handful of replies, so I don't really

expect to hear from him either.

The biggest lie that imposters tell and rely on is, my military

records have been expunged or erased because they say they are "Top

Secret".  All for various reasons, they are/was CIA, their working

very "Black Ops", or part of a highly classified team working for the

U.S. Government, etc. (usually stating some made up code name like

"Jungle Killer Team Alpha").  This is all nothing but pure Garbage.

NO SEALS RECORDS ARE SECRET OR CLASSIFIED, NONE, PERIOD!

Our database is held in multiple private hands of the AuthenthiSEAL

Team, nothing is deleted, EVER.

EVERY man that has completed BUD/S Training, (The training required to

be a SEAL) since WWII, is listed in our database.  On the quarterdeck

of BUD/S Training is an easy to use computer with a list of every man,

by class number, that completed BUD/S Training and went on to become a

SEAL.  Graduating from BUD/S Training is the ONLY way to become a

SEAL.  A list of every man that graduated from each class is given to

each man, this means the names of the men that graduated BUD/S are in

thousands of private hands.  For each BUD/S graduation, which is open

to the public, a program with a list of all those men graduating is

available to everyone attending.  It took thousands of dollars and

thousands of hours to compile our database, it has been checked and

double check with men from each class.  Only an imposter would claim

our database is secret, cleansed, or they were in a secret class. 

This is like saying there is no record of an individual attending a

certain High School, all the year books would have to be hunted down

and destroyed, and the memory of all the classmates would have to be

erased.

If a man is NOT listed in our database he was NEVER A SEAL. 

"Beaver, Kristopher " is NOT listed in our database and was NEVER A SEAL.

Meanwhile, please visit our web page -

www.authentiseal.org/realitycheck.htm - for some very specific information related to the realities of SEAL training, SEAL duties, and the claims most often made by SEAL imposters.

If you wish to respond to this email message, please use the REPLY TO ALL

button at the top of your email screen display. By doing so, you will ensure

that all of the SEAL Authenticator Team members, including myself, will

receive a copy of your message. Thank you again for your assistance in

upholding the honor of the US Navy SEAL Teams.

Curtis Williams

SEAL TEAM ONE  1967-1970

SEAL Authentication Team - Investigator

"The only service where all investigators are US Navy SEALs"

Gregory Platt

UDT/SEAL 1970-1974

SEAL Authentication Team - Investigator

"The only service where all investigators are US Navy SEALs"

“The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing!”

I realize that many questions will probably arise from all this. A lot of usefull information can be found at AuthentiSEAL. However, I expect to post some useful background information about SEALS in the near future. I have learned a lot in the process of this investigation.

[ZJJ]

Greg at AuthentiSEAL was kind enough to put in writing all that he explained to me in my investigation of our poser. Here is his email to me.

SOME HISTORY

Today's Naval Special Warfare operators (SEAL's) can trace their origins to the Scouts and Raiders, Naval Combat Demolition Units and Underwater Demolition Teams of World War II. While none of those early organizations have survived to present, their pioneering efforts in unconventional warfare are mirrored in the

missions and professionalism of the present Naval Special Warfare warriors (SEAL's).

To meet the need for a beach reconnaissance force, selected Army and Navy personnel assembled at Amphibious Training Base, Little Creek, on 15 August 1942 to begin Amphibious Scouts and Raiders (Joint) training. The Scouts and Raiders mission was to identify and reconnoiter the objective beach, maintain a position on the designated beach prior to a landing and guide the assault waves to the landing beach.

On 23 November 1943, the U. S. Marine landing on Tarawa Atoll emphasized the need for hydrographic reconnaissance and underwater demolition of obstacles prior to any amphibious landing. 30 officers and 150 enlisted men were moved to Waimanalo Amphibious Training Base to form the nucleus of a demolition training

program. This group was called Underwater Demolition Unit (UDU), later called Underwater Demolition Teams (UDT).

The Korean War began on 25 June 1950, when the North Korean army invaded South Korea. Beginning with a detachment of 11 personnel from UDT 3, UDT participation expanded to three teams with a combined strength of 300 men.

Responding to President Kennedy’s desire for the Services to develop an Unconventional Warfare (UW) capability, the U.S. Navy established SEAL Teams ONE and TWO in January of 1962. Formed entirely with personnel from Underwater Demolition Teams, the SEALs mission was to conduct counterguerilla warfare and clandestine operations in maritime and riverine environments.

SEAL involvement in Vietnam began immediately and was advisory in nature. SEAL advisors instructed the Vietnamese in clandestine maritime operations. SEALs also began a UDT style training course for the Biet Hai Commandos, the Junk Force Commando platoons, in Danang.

The UDTs again saw combat in Vietnam while supporting the Amphibious Ready Groups. When attached to the riverine groups the UDTs conducted operations with river patrol boats and, in many cases, patrolled into the hinterland as well as along the riverbanks and beaches in order to destroy obstacles and bunkers.

Additionally, UDT personnel acted as advisors.  During the entire time span of the Vietnam War there were a grand total of no more than about 250 SEALs sent to Vietnam, and only about 750 UDT “Frogmen” who served in the Republic of Vietnam or the coastal waters immediately offshore.

On May 1, 1983, "All UDTs were redesignated as SEAL Teams" or Swimmer Delivery Vehicle Teams (SDVT).

Again for clarification

1.  Scout and Raiders started in WW2, they, if alive, are considered today, "SEAL's".

2.  Next were the UDU , they are called today, "SEAL's".

3.  UDT (Frogmen) from Korea to post Vietnam, they are called today, "SEAL's.

4.  As of 1983 to present  "ALL" BUD/S (Basic Underwater Demolition / SEAL) graduates, are called SEAL's.

---------------------

OUR DATA BASE

The database used by the AuthentiSEAL’s SEAL Authentication Team currently lists slightly more than 10,400 men, of whom (as noted above) some 2,200 are still on active duty. While our database does have some information gaps relating to men who served in the earliest days of WWII, it remains the best, most complete

listing in existence. There is no other more official resource, and it is certainly the best and most accurate method of verifying an authentic, genuine Navy SEAL.

This is the same database that all SEALs use for authentication among themselves when they are not known to each other, and it is recognized by both the UDT-SEAL Association and the Department of the Navy as the most complete listing of Naval Special Warfare members in existence.

Our database is thoroughly researched and based on original US Navy records and documentation dating from the present back to the mid 1940's.  Principal in the compilation of our database are the graduation records for the Navy’s Basic Underwater Demolition/SEAL (BUD/S) training program. As each new class graduates from BUD/S training, their names are added to our database.

Our database was created by a private, non-governmental organization (the Naval Special Warfare Archives), is held in multiple private hands, and has never been subject to any manipulations by the Department of Defense.  We don’t delete or alter records and are not subject to any control by Naval authorities.

As noted above, the BUD/S training program is not the only training course that a man must successfully complete before becoming a SEAL… but it is the FIRST step in the process. Unless a man completes BUD/S training, he cannot go on to participate in any of the other training on the path to becoming a SEAL. Our

database contains the names of those who have successfully completed the BUD/S program; if a man’s name is not listed in our database, then he did NOT complete BUD/S training and can not be a REAL SEAL.

----------------------------------

MILITARY RECORDS

If you have the man's SSN you can obtain certain details from his military records under the Freedom Of Information Act (FOIA), WITHOUT the necessity of having his authorizing signature... and that would likely provide you with the information you are seeking. Please visit our RESOURCES web page

(http://www.authentiseal.org/resources.htm), scroll down until you find the Standard Form 180 links. By selecting these links you may download copies of the front and back of the form. You will also find a link to an example of a completed form 180, with all of the wording necessary to obtain the information WITHOUT the

veteran's signature. Fill out your blank form with the wording used in the example, and send it to the address in St. Louis (provided adjacent to the links for the forms).  Response time is approximately 90 days.

-------------------------------------

POW CLAIMS – Completely False

Another popular claim made by SEAL imposters is that of being a former prisoner of war. Often such claims are accompanied by claims of being the “only survivor of my unit”. Of course this particular tactic is intended to close off the possibility of anyone who can deny the claims being still alive.

The absolute truth is that there have NEVER been any UDT Frogmen or SEALs captured, detained, or held as prisoners of war... not in ANY war, not EVER! This important point of information may be verified by the consultation with the POW Network at www.pownetwork.org.

Take care.

Respectfully,

Gregory Platt

UDT/SEAL 1970-1974

SEAL Authentication Team - Investigator

"The only service where all investigators are US Navy SEALs"

“The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing!”

[Zebb]

@WK

No one, though the likes of Hatchetforce may very well disagree with me on this one, has a harder job sometimes than them. 

Stout Hearts

|RE|Warhawk

←

I diagree Warhawk, i had some pretty tricky latrine duties i had to carry out on more than one occasion due to minor "indiscretions" that were discovered, now thats what you call hard work.....

[Cpl Ledanek]

@WK

No one, though the likes of Hatchetforce may very well disagree with me on this one, has a harder job sometimes than them. 

Stout Hearts

|RE|Warhawk

←

I diagree Warhawk, i had some pretty tricky latrine duties i had to carry out on more than one occasion due to minor "indiscretions" that were discovered, now thats what you call hard work.....

←

same here, as a buck private in the Corp, I too had latrine duties and one honorable elite position: S__ duty! I had to burn S___ to hide and protect the contents of the many drumsssss of S____ that might reveal the diet provided by the Marine Corp. Talk about some Top Secret S____

[warhawk]

What's haliorious is that there will undoubtedly be another that wants to try to pass themselves off. It will happen again unfortunatly. Too bad it isn't a felony to make such claims.

Stout Hearts

|RE|Warhawk

[WhiteKnight77]

There is something in the works that may cover said posers and put them in jail. Federal jail.

Stolen Valor Act of 2005 details a bill introduced this year to imprison posers claiming to have earned military awards not actually earned. While I know Fox reported on it correctly, CBS dropped the ball and screwed things up again. There are clips of the news reports on the page further down. You will need RealPlayer to view them.

[warhawk]

GOOD!! This is a small step in a process that is waaaaayyyyy long over due.

Stout Hearts

|RE|Warhawk

[Hatchetforce]

There are always good people after these pices of ######:

http://www.jenmartinez.com/mt/archives/001703.php

I spent the afternoon with my friend Garry Robb. I told him what happened and he was disgusted. If you don't know who Garry is, look him up. Think SOG 1-0 in CCN when you do. There were 6-8 SOG guys at the GB club with Garry and I that would love to have a talk with our buddy Thor. And these guys have plenty of time to 'discuss' things.

[WhiteKnight77]

I found this

On May 14 the search team was inserted without success of locating RT Asp. (Per Cpt "Garry" George Robb, at the time of his departure as the 1-0, Rt Asp, in Nov 70, the team consisted of 3 ex-NVA and 3 Vietnames; however, the team had been shot up before the 3 May loss, thus, the exact ethnic make up of the team is unknown)

Are these one in the same?

1971

[warhawk]

There are always good people after these pices of ######:

http://www.jenmartinez.com/mt/archives/001703.php

I spent the afternoon with my friend Garry Robb. I told him what happened and he was disgusted. If you don't know who Garry is, look him up. Think SOG 1-0 in CCN when you do. There were 6-8 SOG guys at the GB club with Garry and I that would love to have a talk with our buddy Thor. And these guys have plenty of time to 'discuss' things.

←

That's one discussion I would pay good money to sit in on.

Stout Hearts

|RE|Warhawk

[Hatchetforce]

I found this

On May 14 the search team was inserted without success of locating RT Asp. (Per Cpt "Garry" George Robb, at the time of his departure as the 1-0, Rt Asp, in Nov 70, the team consisted of 3 ex-NVA and 3 Vietnames; however, the team had been shot up before the 3 May loss, thus, the exact ethnic make up of the team is unknown)

Are these one in the same?

1971

←

That's Garry.

[ChuckThunder]

http://www.jenmartinez.com/mt/archives/001703.php

From that site...

When asked what he subsisted on for the remainder of the seven days he said, “Do you really want to know? Well, I ate bugs, roots - (after a very slight pause) – human.

[Tommy35]

Not to get too , but I can highly recommend a book on SOG. It's SOG: A Photo History of the Secret Wars, written by John Plaster. Worth every penny

[Tommy35]

Back on topic, Kudo's to the staff! Posing demeans all that countless brave men have sacrificed for their country. The man should be brought up on charges of treason, IMHO.

[Gordo_Viper]

Some People Just never Learn:-

Case in Point Uni Lecturer

MONTGOMERY James Alwyn

Top Listed Case

Cases

Aussie Site

[pz3]

ST2 is for seals team 2 right?

that doesnt even exist does it?

←

i quote myself, looking for an answer, ST2, was deactivated after WW2 right?