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Thoughts on Raven Shield


jsonedecker
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Since it came out I've played probably more games with Zebb than anyone else and we always agreed that it was the game that could have been so good but just fell short and there was always something that held it back from being truly great. To this day I'm pretty sure I havent even looked at the single player game, for me it was multiplayer right from the word go and if I have problems connecting/hosting/playing then its a pain in the bum ;) if the ubi servers and cd key servers go down now then theres no multiplayer for anyone unless they've got their own LAN and friends to ferry in. I personally dont like the idea of that.

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My gripes with RvS are:

    1. Unreal Engine doesn't "feel" right, and gave me serious headaches after playing for like a half an hour.
    2. The enemy AI is stupidly good, and kill you with one shot from distance.
    3. The ragdoll effects were overdone.
    4. Whenever a persn is shot, no matter where the injury is, they are gimped, doesn't make sense to me.
    5. The missions all feel the same, there isn't enough differentiation and "twists" in them, not to mention they feel a bit linear.
    6. I feel the speed of the game is also a bit too fast at times.
    7. UBI game service.
    8. A billion patches, need I say more? LOL

:o=

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NYR_32 Posted Today, 07:44 PM

  My gripes with RvS are:

1. Unreal Engine doesn't "feel" right, and gave me serious headaches after playing for like a half an hour.

Yeah I'll second that !! Headaches after half an hour or so were frequent. But maybe that's just my meesed up head ;)

Other than that my gripes are pretty much the same as everyone else's. MP joining was frustrating at times as it would take forever and a day to verify the game to the main UBI server, or wherever the hell it went to. And some people wouldn't be able to join or even see my game when others were connected.

Speed was a bit too much and tangos accuracy uncanny at times. The weapon view cheesed me off too, though I usually just chose the ret view. Can't really say about having views forced on me in MP as I only played with friends ( jump into a random UBI server ?!?! :huh: must be nutz ).

I also agree about the repetetive stroyline...got boring quick.

The blood spatter and blood stains as a bad guy slid down the wall were kool though.

EDIT

Oh yeah..how could I forget ? I need to apply 12 patches to get the game up to date from install....serious pain in the ass.

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I'd be interested in a little help too there Phantom ;) I still like playing it and I'm damned If I'm going to let Presidio still beat me!

Oh, that damned map ! ! I've yet to beat it. We ought to hook up.

Add me to your MSN, and we'll get ya squared away, and then we'll beat that map ! ! :o=

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Eh, I thought Raven-Shield was OK. I remember playing the demo with Pyro, T, and the gang, getting my ass kicked and blaming it on my 56K (I swear!). The demo was a lot of fun, sitting up in the prison tower with one guy sniping with a M16 and scope, while another guy killed anyone who dared climb the latter. Of course eventually everyone got wise and that tower had about 20 frags going in it per round.

Once the retail came out I had a good time (because I had cable now), we played on Pave's server for HOURS. Nothing beats having a flash-bang go off and four guys charging in a room not trying to shoot each other, or that pesky hostage who always enjoyed running around once the shooting starts. I also remember playing "Parade Lineup" at the very least 25 times before we beat it, and having that music stuck in your head for weeks. Then there was the airport day hostage rescue, which we played so much it became a rutine... climb the latter, immediately go prone and crawl under the window so the terrorist don't spot you and kill the hostage. Great stuff.

The one thing I hated about the game was the weapons the terrorist had. SA80s + CMAGs for all, give me a break.

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John,

I still play RVS...love the game. Maybe it's the memories of playing great R6 games back in 1999 with a bunch of great guys. Here is what I see as the problems with RVS.

1st- The community. What a bunch of whinners. Coming from R6 and then modding in RS/UO and then modding GR I must say that the RVS community as a whole needs to grow up.

2nd- Multiplayer. Myself Whisper_44 and WardenMac love playing coop together, but man what a pain trying to connect. If its not being able to get through router problems, its just trying to connect at all. Part II of this is cheating. Although Punkbuster may have helped there is still alot of it going on, and that is why I stopped playing online with other than those I know. If you want great onling gaming bring back the old MXL league.

3rd- Modding. Some of us do not want a job in the game industry, but we sure do love modding. This is probably the biggest problem for RVS...let the modders have a crack at it and see what they come up with. How would like to use this weapon or any other some modder could come up with.

m14socomshorty.jpg

Anyway...I love the series, and wish it would continue.

Actually, Bring back the original R6 RS/UO in a game with updated engine and graphics. Add to that MPLAYER and the MXL league. Add some great modding tools and a good communty...bang...you got a winner.

Edited by Cobra6
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John,

I still play RVS...love the game. Maybe it's the memories of playing great R6 games back in 1999 with a bunch of great guys. Here is what I see as the problems with RVS.

1st- The community. What a bunch of whinners. Coming from R6 and then modding in RS/UO and then modding GR I must say that the RVS community as a whole needs to grow up.

2nd- Multiplayer. Myself Whisper_44 and WardenMac love playing coop together, but man what a pain trying to connect. If its not being able to get through router problems, its just trying to connect at all. Part II of this is cheating. Although Punkbuster may have helped there is still alot of it going on, and that is why I stopped playing online with other than those I know. If you want great onling gaming bring back the old MXL league.

3rd- Modding. Some of us do not want a job in the game industry, but we sure do love modding. This is probably the biggest problem for RVS...let the modders have a crack at it and see what they come up with. How would like to use this weapon or any other some modder could come up with.

m14socomshorty.jpg

Anyway...I love the series, and wish it would continue.

Actually, Bring back the original R6 RS/UO in a game with updated engine and graphics. Add to that MPLAYER and the MXL league. Add some great modding tools and a good communty...bang...you got a winner.

Amen ! !

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I think it is very difficult for any game to "live up" to the original Rainbow Six. I mean, it was an instant hit and classic in every sense of the word. Rogue Spear was great because the graphics were updated and the gameplay was still great. I think with RvSh, too much effort was spent on the graphics and more "action" oriented gameplay. The Unreal engine probably wasn't the best choice. I mean, it's great for some games but I think maybe a modified Ghost Recon engine would have been better. If more attention was spent on squad movement and tactics so that the squad AI was far better, I think that would have gone a long way. Plus, the fact that enemies can see you from a mile away and kill you just doesn't make much sense... I also wish there was more radio chatter and more status and situtational updates from the squad. Maybe if the SDK had been released with the game it would have had a longer shelf life and become the next "hit" like Swat 3 or some of the other TacSims but I guess it just wasn't meant to be.

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I have to agree with cobra somewhat. However, I dont want the same game updated. I know the concept would be popular and I would buy it in a heartbeat but I think you can re-create some classic stuff, one example Hunter Johnny's Maps and other classics that have been recreated and very well done.

Things I would like to see:

1. One thing I havent noticed mentioned is replayability. We play the same maps over and over and know exactly where the tangos are every time. There are some slight changes, but even those are the same. More random placements for tangos in new rounds. I know this is limited, but I think you get my point.

2. Coming from a weapon mod guy, I want some decent 3rd person wep models. I didnt have a problem with the 1st person views and thought they were very well done. The 3rd person models are terrible. I know the reasons why, Im just saying I would like to see better 3rd person models.

3. Four teams instead of three and more insertion points on maps.

4. More "on the fly commands" for team members. I thought Swat 4 did this pretty well. I want more control of the actions and orders I can give to team members.

5. Better reactions from tangos when they have been engaged. Now you either kill them or they run around the corner. Better AI all around I guess.

6. More weapons choices. I know that sticking with the theme would hender this, so Im somewhat pulled in both directions.

7. Ability to add more attachments to weapons (lights, scopes, suppressors, etc..)

Like many I still love the game and play it alot and will continue too. I look forward to seeing what the future brings to the franchise.

Edited by DTDWardenMac
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Its been awhile now since I played it, but the one thing I thought would be nice is the replay. I enjoy watching GR replay and critic how I can improve my tactics. Being this is a tactician's (is there such a word?) game, watching takedowns and working on how to improve it would be a plus.

my $0.02

PS and to kiss-######, I would like to see DTD team do mods on them like the RS:UO. :whistle:

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Hmm... Rvs...

1st, #1 would be the extremely skilled AI! I mean, whoah! Super shot.

2nd, Attatchments and the very slight weapon mechanics changes.

3rd, #1 in the area of community survival, you say it first, ok, Modding.

4th, I never got into R6 and RS, TOO YOUNG THEN, but I played it at a friends house a few times, and liked it a LOT.

Well that wasn't really a point, but you get the drift, not a kiddie game.

And John, Good luck! :thumbsup: I hope God has many good things in store for you.

Edited by Snake@War
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Hey everyone,

First off, I know this is the GR forums so that is why I am posting this in the Off Topic section.

I am interested in why those that didn't care for Raven Shield didn't like it. Was it a particular feature that was added/removed, was the "speed" different... that kind of thing. I also know that some didn't like the use of the Unreal engine. I am also curious to hear why it wasn't liked. Was there just a pre-concieved notion about the Unreal engine or were there actual tangible things about it that made it "inferior" to the previous RSE created ones.

This is not intended to be a flame fest or even a place to "######" about stuff. I am merely curious to hear why, at least it appears so, that Rvs was less "accepted" by gamers than Rainbow Six or Rogue Spear.

-John

1 - Movement: I didn't like the fast movement. Everything felt very ... 'run and gun' to me.

2 - Environments: In general, I thought the maps were ok, but not great. I didn't like the fact that several of the maps repeated themselves throughout the campaign. I also would have liked to have seen more destructable environments. Things like bullet ricochet, overpentration, shootable tires on vehicles, etc. And those stupid cubemap reflections.... The Unreal engine is quite capable of producing beautiful reflections, and yet Ubi left them out.

3 - Multiplayer: No direct IP connection, Ubi's horrible MP service

4 - No mod support: While RSE wasn't the biggest supporter of modders around, at least we got something from you guys. Ubisoft never did give us the ability to mod the game properly.

5 - Overall feel: For some reason, Raven Shield just didn't feel .... fresh to me. The game had all the potential to be cutting edge, fresh, and unique, but it ended up feeling like a very bad attempt to mix Rainbow Six's basic CT look with Counterstrike's run-n-gun play style. To me, it seemed like Ubi purposefully stupified the game to make it more accessible to more players. The problem is, what came out of it was a game that wasn't really that challenging in the same way Rainbow Six and Rogue Spear were challening. The enemy AI pretty much down to two things when you made contact: stand and fight you, or run right at you. Another major issue for me was the lack of injuries to the bodies. It stands to reason that if I hit a guy with a 9mm round in the forehead and his brains splatter on the wall, I'm going to see some damage to his noggin. Rather than streamline their code and find a way to introduce what would seem like a no-brainer of a feature, they chose to ignore the players.

6 - Bad programming: It seemed like everytime Ubi released a patch, they broke something that had to be fixed later.

7 - The community: From the ridiculously immature moderators at the official forums, to the whining, cursing, and insulting ... cretans on other forums, the community just plain stunk.

8 - Ubi's excessive focus on copyright control, over quality control. The need to validate the CD-key over and over, log into Ubi's servers if you wanted to play MP, disabling legal utilities like Alcohol, making the game unplayable on many CD writers, etc. Their copyright protection seemed to work just fine, unlike their netcode, AI, and weapon ballistics.

9 - Graphical content: Some may disagree, but I thought that the visuals were just poor. The details on some of the enemies were nothing more than basic photoshop patterns. First-person weapon textures were typically just a PhotoShop 'clouds' filter, with a bit of noise and dodge/burn tossed in here and there. 3rd person weapons were ridiculously horrible. Enemies seemed to be a little too boxey for me. Once I looked past the snazzy DX9 effects, I didn't really see alot that really stuck out as being great work.

10 - Audio content: Team voice-overs stunk. No emotion, no variance, etc. The weapon sounds, as far as recording quality, were good, but they just didn't convince me. Some of the handgun sounds were obviously very fabricated and very processed.

Edited by Parabellum
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People also need to be aware of the fact that nostalgia blinds. The original R6 was a great game. There are also many things wrong with it that have been vastly improved by numerous games today. The bar has been raised time and again since then.

The original military shooter was Spec Ops. I love that title and have a small system with a Voodoo card (Glide was the ultimate API) just for it and a few others from the Win 95 era.

However I also realize the numerous issues with that game, it's predecessor, and it's competitors from that era as well. Including R6.

Few FPS titles are as vaunted or highly regarded as Goldeneye. I still have an N64 with that game and PD. I go back once in a while and run it. Fun? Yes. But after a few minutes I think about a host of modern games and the holes in that title overwhelm the good parts.

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I just reinstalled RvS to have a look at Iron Wrath. One thing I noticed about the maps. I placed the (Classic) Iron Comet, and felt that this was more like it. As para said, it still feels as though your rushing the whole thing, maybe that was because the maps are bigger in RvS. As I tell the wife, bigger is not always better ;)

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4th, I never got into R6 and RS, TOO YOUNG THEN, but I played it at a friends house a few times, and liked it a LOT.

Too young then! :unsure:

Yikes, I am gettign old. :rofl:

I hope for good things myself..... thank you.

-John

Yeah, too young. I started playing GR when I was 12 in 2001. I played R6 a few times at a friend's but I was too dumb back then to play it right.

Iron Wrath updated the AI a lot, too. Not so smart.

To those who haven't tried it, I would.

Edited by Snake@War
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Would you be able to use a Tom Clancy storyline, or does Redstorm hold all the rights to those? I began reading Rainbow Six after I bought the game and I was not able to put the book down...finished it in 3 days. Thats what the next Tac Sim needs...a good story line/book to base it off of.

Ask Parabellum to read the story line behind DYNACOMP...I thought he did a great job on that one.

Edited by Cobra6
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