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GR3 and Lack of Information


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Over on the SHIII forum, it was stated when asked about info on the patch:

Originally posted by Faamecanic:

I think the LEAST the devs could do is give us a ETA on the next patch.

I still say they should have issued a 1.31 patch to fix the sonar guy....

Yep, i think its unexcusable on UBI's part mostly and secondly the dev team. But, could be UBI's policy for them to stay quiet.

To which I stated:

Ubi has been keeping devs quiet everywhere unfortunately. No information gets released until they are ready to release it unfortunately nowadays.

UbiRazz stated this in response:

You make it sound like Ubisoft are telling the developers to shut up, this isn't the case in the slightest. Discussions about announcements and releases are made with full cooperation between both devteams and Ubisoft.

Online communities are very demanding at the best of times and we try to address this as much as possible but sometimes it's not possible to comment. The time to get a patch developed, tested, and ready for release? How long is a piece of string? When we're closer to completion we'll let you know. We've learned from our mistakes in the past and are constantly trying to find ways to stop them happening again.

I then asked:

Razz, if that were not the case, then why have Ghsot Recon fans not had any news on a PC version for over a year? XBox version have had trailers, screens and interviews, yet when asked for PC releated info, we hit a brick wall. The only thing we have heard on PC versions is that it is in development GR2 and 3 then GR2 for PC canceled. No screens, not trailers, not nothing on either iteration. Why?

GRIN has at least give us a few subtle hints that they are listening, but has Ubi allowed them to say anything or release any screens?

GRIN was going to set up forums, but who nixed that idea? Can only be once source.

If Ubi isn't telling devs to be quiet, then why no news on the new patch for SHIII or any thing else except some console games? People want to know Razz.

And UbiRazz responded with:

Well this certainly isn't the forum for a good ol' Ghost Recon argument but I guess it's inevitable.

There was no Ghost Recon 2 PC information until this year as last year we were focusing on the console version. This year it's been cancelled. Next year we see Ghost Recon 3 PC getting released, closer to release we will start building up hype for the game. We will never release screens or movies too early for a release and the PC version of GR3 is subject to this, like all of our games. As I stated before, we work with the devteam who are making the game and we all agree when and what releases/announcements to make - i.e. the devteam for GR3 PC does have a say in what's released. When a brand is making an appearance on multiple platforms we will always focus on the versions for release first – in this case console – and, when we’re ready, then we’ll focus on later versions. You’re complaining that there’s nothing out there for GR3 PC, maybe it’s because it’s not in a state ready to be seen? Maybe the devteam aren’t satisfied that anything they release will do the final game justice?

Silent Hunter III, the news for the patch is that the patch is in development, when we get closer to release and completion of the patch we will release information. It's got nothing to do with telling people to be quiet or anything, it's about releasing solid information. Would you prefer us to send out a statement saying X, Y, and Z will be in the next patch and then have two of those things dropped for A, B, and C? No, you'd be disappointed. In these cases it's often best not to say anything at all.

This argument has no place here, thread closed.

First, I want to say, Razz, I know you have a tough job. I see you in all the forums I have games. That's quite a few really.

Now to address some of the things you stated in your last response as I am sure others will want to ask similar questions.

You say that the devs will release info when ready after discussing it with Ubi and will show information on the version getting released first. Now according to the GR3 press release:

When will the games Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon® 3 be available?

The Xbox, PS2, GC and PC versions will be available for the 2005 holiday season, and the version for the next-generation console from Microsoft will be available for the machine's launch.

Now with the launch of all 5 versions at the same time, they have to all be far enough along to show something. Heck the XBox 360 weren't even in game videos or screens as there were no playable XBox360's. The trailer was being run on Apple computers at E3. Now PCs's are an available platform right now, no waiting for launch. It is known that GR3 has been in development for some time. With a launch date less than 6 months away, surely there is even some early beta screens to be had. GR1 changed radically between first showings and final code. Why was info released then and not now?

As I asked, why wasn't GRIN allowed to start forums on their website? If Ubi wasn't trying to keep close tabs on what was said, do you not think that GRIN would have them or even post here or GR.net? I know that the guys from RSE and GRIN read both here and there, yet, not one lick of information, from you, HangtownSOG or them. Why is that when the games are so close to launch?

With GR2, we knew that work was held up to get the console version out the door (ahead of schedule no less) and once that was finished, work was restarted, but no word of what was happening or an expected ship date. The first word that was given after Christmas as was said, was that it was canceled. Now we all know why, but still, no information from anyone as to how it was gonna play or look.

While I and the others want the devs to work on the game, we do wish more information. If it is as you say that Ubi isn't gagging anyone, then surely, there are early screens that can be relased? Remeber. PCs exist right now and are not a piece of hardware that is awaiting launch.

I didn't mean to get that thread locked in the SHIII forum, just wishing to show that they aren't the only ones lacking for information.

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:hmm: PC GR3 to be released 6 months or so from now and yet no info. :hmm: Your right WK77. No playable XBOX360's and info has been out about GR3 for some time now. PC's are here and now yet there's no info about GR3 to be had. Reminds me of how we kept waiting for GR2 info and then all we got was a big CANCEL. :( Why wouldn't you want to keep the GR PC community interested with info if you do indeed have a PC game that close to being released? We've waited long enough. :help:
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I already saw what you posted and yes, my soap box is pretty big and getting bigger every day.

I ask these questions due to the fact then need to be. As I asked, how can something be shown as a demo when the hardware for it hasn't been launched yet?

GR2 for XBox was shown at E3 last year with screens and trailers forthcoming til release. Just showing that info alone was enough to cause outrage to get a version canceled. Is it to be the same for GR3 for PC?

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I found it interesting that most games shown at E3 were either trailer videos or power by MACs G5. The game is developed through or via pc but marketing consoles. Ubi never said GR2 was just for xbox console hence the name GR2. I mean were does UBI get off calling a GR2 but not ready or cancelled for the original platform then call GR3 pc version being developed. UBI is confused maybe has something to do with EA Sports boughts some of the shares in stock. Just kidding. UBI company seems to be dazed and confused. There was a time were I would email them personally but since I monitor companies management closely I lost interest in getting to route of UBI problems. UBI is a hit or miss company not really different than any other video game company. I did think that if you have something good, work to improve it, not skip over GR2pc, then say GR3 is coming out in 2005 with all consoles. The players on GR2 xbox have no idea really the heart and soul of Ghost Recon. What I mean by that is if you never played GR on pc then GR2 on xbox is a nice game. I have both xbox and pc game but much rather play GR1. UBI can say what they want but I will see when game hits the shelves. I will buy it, if I like it great, if I don't like it cup holder at a expensive price. I have all the cup holders I will ever need so Ubi get right this time.

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You know, that was possibly the most arrogant answers to legitimate questions that I’ve heard since right before they canceled GR2 for the pc. Come on UBI I’m just starting to believe again, but things like that can drive me right back into the place I was after you canceled GR2 for the pc. A little info on what’s going on wont kill ya. I’m not even talking about screenshots or trailers. But how about pictures of someone actually working on it? That and a short message would go along way here. Pull your heads out of the sand

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How is Razz's post outlining how they go about releasing info, arrogant? They have to hype up the big time money making, earlier to be released games. Plain and simple. He laid out why you don't have that much info, screenies and movies from projects that aren't in a finished state.

If they released movies and detailed things right now, and those things change in 2 weeks, then change again a week later and finally before beta have to be scrapped what do you think forums will be filled with? Maybe a billion threads calling the devs liars, the publisher liars because a feature or whatever had to be removed from the game, in order for it to make a deadline. Heck the entire gun camera from GR2's LoneWolf mode almost had to be removed from the game close to beta, what if RSE had an early version of that at E3 and they couldn't fix the problem they had with it?There would have been a "nice" bunch of threads full of complaints and such. We only learned of Lone Wolf after the issue was overcome and the feature was locked in.

With 5-8 months before and GR3 game is released A LOT WILL CHANGE in every build (PC, Xbox 360, Xbox, P2 etc.), should the devs be spending there time updating feature lists online and then trying to calm people down in the forums? I think not, they have enough pressure already. Should UBI give the PC gamer something? Hell yes. One or two screens would be more than appreciated, even just to assure people the project exisits and its not a giant conspiracy hatched by M$ and Space Monkeys from Mars to screw us over.

We will get info, in time, about GR3 PC, and R6:4 PC. When a company, in this case UBI, has a policy in place, regardless if we like it or not, they are going to follow it. I know I don't like that I can't buy an M rated game at Best Buy without getting carded (go figure I'm 20 and people think I'm like 17 or something), but thats life.

The developers at RSE and GRIN know what the hardcore GR players (PC and Console alike) want in a Ghost Recon game, trust them to get it done.

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Should UBI give the PC gamer something? Hell yes.  One or two screens would be more than appreciated, even just to assure people the project exisits and its not a giant conspiracy hatched by M$ and Space Monkeys from Mars to screw us over.

This is all some want, a few screens, we don't need a feature list just yet but being that GR3 is scheduled for a 2005 Holiday release, we are in the 6 month window for release.

My question is, if they are showing something for hardware not yet available, why not something for hardware that is already available and enmass?

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Because that "hardware" was the major draw at this years E3, wheter PC gamers like it or not the Xbox 360 will be a major money maker for many studios/publishers, not just RSE and UBI. So do you show off a PC game, that may look just as good, or do you show off a launch title for the next big console?

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quote:

Originally posted by WhiteKnight77:

If we PC gamers had video or screens for the PC version, it would go a long way to placating them (me included).

Originally posted by Cutter:

A loooooooooong loooooooong way! Just one ###### "PC" screen!! JUST ONE!! I imagine there are still many disgruntled pc fans from the last fiasco that have to see to believe.

Just one screen would do a world of good. I don't think that is asking much considering the shaft the GR PC community got with GR2.

Edited by Cutter
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Weren't there 1-2 Xbox GR2 videos released with the "work in progress" message?

Maybe it takes too many human resources to hit the print screen key.

:P

GR2 was indeed in development, and only a few months from release at the time of my tour. I saw it.

Ubi had forbidden any news, just like they always do. And now Ubi took it away from the people that knew GR the best, and knew the community the best.

GR?

What GR? There is no more GR.

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I thoght we had got over the gr2 thing???????

In all honesty it realy is time please give gr2 the rest in peace it deserves.

The frustration ppl are expressing is understandable from a GR2 point of view.

But not from a Gr3 point of view.

Gr3 has been official for a few weeks and already some of you complain that they dont get to see it.

Games with big publishers follow a PR schedule and right now screenshots and detail info is not up for posting according to that schedule - simple but a fact, they stick to the plan.

Why cant some of you accept that.

You aint gonna get nothing at the moment. and thats it.

UBI is not evil or bad in fact they have made millions of people all over the world very happy.

They are a business and they do understand PC gamers.

This is why GRIN has been given the task to deliver the PC VERSION. Otherwise they could just have ported the Xbox360 internaly at a much cheaper cost and be done with it.

They take the PC seriously.

If you dont believe this then thats your problem.

But I know this information to be totally correct.

Colin

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I wasn't trying to rehash the GR2 business. I was just using it as an example of what we gamers are or rather are not seeing with the games we love.

Are we gamers demanding, most definately. Why is that? We find something we like and we don't want to give it up. As noted in the console forums I believe, people liked GR because it broke the mold for shooters. Was it a hit? Sure and we loved it for what it was. We also got a plethora of information during it's development even if things did change between initial screens and final code. We can live with that, yet we do not recieve it for sequels.

Here is something else that bothers me and it is also part of the reason why we are not being given much, but don't quote me on it though. I noted this in the Rainbow Six Lockdown forums:

Unfortunately, I see a disturbing trend. RSE developed the Tac-Sim genre and developed a following with it. That including developing their own engine to fit their needs. Their games only came out on the PC. Now 7 years down the road after their intial released, their original franchise has been bastardized with the use of the Unreal engine and the game play has changed over what it was. Ubi brought Lockdown back to RSE as after fan unrest (a disturbing trend was started), it ws decided to bring the game back to the developers who started it all, but with the instructions to make it more action oriented. Hmmmmm, sounds like a CS clone to me. To top it off, it is coming out on console first.

I know this is not about the R6 series, but if you read between the lines, you will see similarities between the 2 franchises. An RSE developed game being sent to a different studio.

As it stands right now, the originally developed engine is no more the way I see it. Console versions are being made with the Yeti engine and PC versions are being made with the Diesel engine. That is some information, and we have seen what the Yeti engine may offer, but nothing from the other. RSE has pretty much ceased to be the preeminate Tac-Sim developer, they were and they developed the whole genre to begin with.

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Its true that GR3 is a flagship game to promote XBOX360 so no wonder they are kaning that approach. Seeing as that information is well and truly drummed into most peoples ears/minds via E3, I think its time to now shift some focus to the "other platforms" and show a screen that says "PC screenshot" ... and that would satisfy many sceptical people here.

That realy isnt alot to ask lets face it. Again I feel the only reason they are kaning XBOX platform is purely as a promotional tool for both the game and the console.

I mean, does anyone know how much Microsoft has a hand in this? IE heres te tools to write the game for our machine ... but in return promote our machine first. There must be some clause in the gaming world like that for next gen releases and "flagship" type games.

I may be wrong, but either way a nod to the PC development via a screenie wouldnt kill anyone. This is based on the fact I believe its coming for the PC but would like "confirmation" .. and also just like any other promotion for PC games the usual online pics etc.

Edited by calius
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