Lets TEACH GRIN about Ghost Recon! Lets tell em

[WhiteKnight77 1]

The Lets TEACH GRIN about Ghost Recon!! Lets tell em why we love GR1 thread at Ubi that Stalker Zero started raises some good points. People like GR and RSE games for a specific reason. They set themselves apart from other games by not "appealing" to everyone under the sun.

This is also evidenced in another game developer 1C Maddox, the devs of the iL2 Sturmovik series. This is what has been said about them in a recent GameSpy article:

All credit to 1C and the developers of IL-2 Sturmovik. They took a genre that most publishers wouldn't touch with a 10-foot pole and rather than dumb it down to reach out to a mythical "mainstream gamer", they crammed it full of the esoteric detail and nitpicky realism so beloved of fans of the genre. The result was a flight simulator that was a commercial success (albeit a small one) and the centerpiece for legions of flight-sim fans hungering for a quality product.

This is exactly what RSE did in the past. While parts of RSE games were unrealistic and we knew it, we still craved their games. I get more and more emails from people asking where they can find games without kids screaming and hollering and cursing eveyone and anyone. The dumbed down games are the games that draw the above mentioned kids. Let me say that yes, there are kids here under 16 that like how the originals played, but they are the exception and not the rule from what I see. Even my young buddy Daywanderer from Norway was 15 or 16 when I first met him, he was mature beyond his years. Yes, he played arcade shooters too, but he seemed to excel at RS and GR (I never played CS or anything else with him though, I only own RSE shooters).

Now I don't think we all liked everything about GR, but we liked most of what it had to offer. By and large, GR is the game that set the bar and is what all games since have been measured against.

[deleyt 0]

Hear hear.

[JTF-2 0]

indeed. The devs seem to be doing a great job of listening so far, let's hope that thread over at UBI gets read closely

[WhiteKnight77 1]

They also read the forums here.

[Vir2L 0]

What I want in GR3:

- Modability!!

- Realism. (ie. coop: tangos shouldn't know you are there unless they are looking at you or they hear you. ala GR1)

- Non-Linear Gameplay. Let teams choose their paths. (ala GR1)

- 1 Shot 1 Kill should always be a possiblity. (ala GR1)

- Stealth Aspect. Smart tactics get rewarded. (ala GR1)

- Teamwork rewarded. (ala GR1)

- Run n' Gunners should have an easier chance at dieing for not using teamwork. (ala GR1)

- Tactical Control of Squad via Command Map (ala GR1)

- Pre-mission Briefings/Intel (ala GR1)

- The game is titled Ghost Recon, let's remember that.

Edited May 28, 2005 by Vir2L

[Kurtz 4]

In terms of gameplay, the most important thing to me are the weapons and the squad command system.

The key to the squad command is the defensive-offensive mode. I want to either send 1 man forward to recon or recon myself. Once the enemy is found, I want the choice to find an alternative route to the objective without engaging or flank the enemy and set up a crossfire ambush. For that to work, you need a robust order system and control over each man.

Games like BIA and FTF have ruined the gameplay by making the weapons inaccurate and ineffective in order to simulate the realism under fire. The weapons in GR were done well, don't ruin the game by making them like RVS or AA.

[KRP 56 92]

Open maps,nonlinear gameplay,extra SP modes like firefight-defend etc is what makes GR great for me. Least we not forget mod tools which keep GR interesting after all this time. My one statement for GRIN would be to due it like GR classic only make it look better.

[Sup 0]

This is foolish. Grin's far more qualified to know what made GR great than we are -- They almost definitely spoke to RSE about the game before they started work. Also, this development house has made millitary simulations, and, finally, has hidden our 'Ghost recon classic' image in their website. I think it's fair to say they're going to make it as we want; or at least that if they don't, it wasn't from not knowing what it was.

[Dan 0]

plus are they going to read a 5000 page long wishlist? If this is going to be done, it need to de done right.

A common list made, professionally typed, the emailed to Grin. And then we shut up and wait.

[Kurtz 4]

On the Grin website, they make the point that they are not going to host a forum because they are reading forums at Ubi and here.

[Colin 0]

Dan Good idea very good idea.

[snared_gambit 0]

I agree with everything that WK said. I got into R6 after I saw it for Playstation in a PSM. That night, I bought the Gold Pack for $16 (a hefty sum if you're 10 or 11, I can't remember which). I had to play it on my dad's computer at work, and beat the game after two months of going down and playing for an hour or so as often as I could. I was foaming at the mouth for the realism the game offered. RS brought even more, and I played that game to death. I stumbled across Ghost Recon looking for RS mods, and got it the Christmas it came out and just played and played.

[smokin 0]

Whats funny is that kids also crave realism. The one's who yell at the top of thier lungs, calling for more run and gun, just dont know it yet. Its the realism and challenging gameplay that contributes to the addictive quality of older Red Storm games.

Ok, ok, back on topic . I'll star with the absolutly obvious stuff I want to see.

_Open maps

_Non linear game play

_Mission/map editor

_a harsh penalty for run and gun style game play(good ballistics).

The not so obvious, all geared mostly tword MPcoop mode.

_GR1 style lobby, everyone joins up, reads a breifing, readys up or gets luanched into game by timer. Far too many new games like RvS, Swat 4, and other that dont come to mind just now, allow modders to creat new maps, but do nothing to include briefings or various objectives to immerse the players into the game. Instead, its usually a nice new map, with a simple objective, KILL ALL, no intel whatso ever.

_AI suported by scripting. GR1 was amazing because you could leash, or script the AI to do whatever you want. when the player antagonized the AI at any point, his own AI took over.

_ability to use stealth. If prone, AI spotting distance = < if crouched, if crouched, AI spotting distance = < if Standing, if running spotting distance x 10

_The way enemy AI in GR was set up was brilliant. squads, plattoons, snipers, all did thier thing. If a squad saw you, the platoon was alerted, if a squad member spots you the squad was alerted. If a squad was taken out quickly, the platoon was oblivious (unless scripted).

_A powerful mission editor like igor please.

[NYR_32 6]

The brass things go in the bad guy...thats my advice.

[Cpl Ledanek 247]

should we repost that wish list we originally had?

[Zantar45 0]

I hear that the GR PC crowd just loooove the MM1 grenade launcher.

I suggest putting it back in and making it dual wield...

[Dan 0]

Dan Good idea very good idea.

←

well i can do some organising etc if we wanna do this.

Im still thinking of the best way to go about it tho, hmmmm.

[Colin 0]

I recon Grin are about half way through Development or just under.

So now would be a good time to put somthing together.

I think the best idea is do a poll on the top 20 things we would like to see above all else.

Then have a vote at the end of the poll for finalisation.

And then send it.

I know W.K. and Rocky are good at poll formats maybe we could get them to have a go, it would also add more clout and they probably have more information on the Devs than we do.

The problem is going to be every one needs somthing different, but then again may be not.

See what the guys say about it first.

BW Colin

Edited May 28, 2005 by =SEALZ=Colin

[Sixpence 0]

What I want in GR3:

- Modability!!

- Realism.  (ie.  coop: tangos shouldn't know you are there unless they are looking at you or they hear you. ala GR1)

- Non-Linear Gameplay.  Let teams choose their paths. (ala GR1)

- 1 Shot 1 Kill should always be a possiblity.  (ala GR1)

- Stealth Aspect.  Smart tactics get rewarded. (ala GR1)

- Teamwork rewarded.  (ala GR1)

- Run n' Gunners should have an easier chance at dieing for not using teamwork. (ala GR1)

- Tactical Control of Squad via Command Map (ala GR1)

- Pre-mission Briefings/Intel (ala GR1)

- The game is titled Ghost Recon, let's remember that.

←

I fully agree ! Combine it with better Graphics, Ragdoll-Physics and larger Maps and the most Work is done !

And why the Hell is it allowed to command the Team-Boss only ??? What does make it sense ?? Give us back the Team-Switching, ( btw: a 4 four man Squad is ridicolous, most SF Teams in the World go back to a 6 Man Squad !)

Tactical Control like SWAT4 isnt bad ! Think about it !

Personaly i prefer a current mil. Unit. I dont like the "Future Warrior" Look-a-Like. If i wanna play a future Unit , i buy "STAR WARS:Republic Command" ! or whatever !

If UBI ship the Game, offer (for DL as example) more different Skin-Packs ! Not all People wanna play with US-Guys. (Speznaz, UK-Forces, and so on...)

[WhiteKnight77 1]

The game is much further along that one would believe.

[Snake@War 0]

Very true WK.

@Dan:

Excellent idea.

When you DO email the list, put in FPWV as an option.

I can NOT wait for Christmas.

[Dan 0]

a poll wouldnt go well. I think polls are limited to 10 things.

People need to have a read, then post any knew ideas they have.

Once ive got a rough list ill post it, and everyone can pick it apart, and we can add and remove bits.

[Papa6 88]

I'd have to say;

1. the nightvision. Nightvision doesn't even look like that in real life. make it more real. hell in a night map with nightvision on, you just might miss the enemy anyway.

2. incorporate voice comms into the game maybe weld ventrilo or Teamspeak into the actual game so we don't have to open a comms application and the game separate.

3. make it so riflemen can't chew up snipers so easily. that was way unreal as was the snipers uniforms.

4. allow for the weapons kits to be edited in game. do I want more nades or ammo? If I choose more nades, then lessen the amount of ammo I can carry.

5. Allow for more Shermanlevels in map making. If I want to add a 5 story building, please let me have 5 sherman levels or however many I will need for my map. maybe simplify the sherman transitions like maybe drag and drop the sherman transitions from any of the 3 axis X,Y,Z.

thanks

Papa6

[Cutter 0]

This was takin from my teams forum. I asked the members to post here and on the UBI forums on what they would like to see in GR3. If they didn't do it here or on the UBI forums I would be glad to copy and paste it for them So here it is DEVS.

When GR3 arrives (if it isn't going to be like the gr2 fiasco) I would like to see some of the same elements as the origional GR in that I like a mixture of rural and urban combat themes. The Idea of maps large enough to provide both are also acceptable. I don't want a threat indicator, but a map grid would be good. I wouldn't even mind a compass at the top. I would like a good method of IFF. The "Names" form of IFF from gr1 is ok, but today there are special lights each soldier wears that is only visible though the helmet lens of his team mates. it is visible both day and night from any angle. That would be a very nice feature for identification, although, there may be times when the light is hidden by terrain, which would require some caution and patience. I would like to see effective concealment, whether grass, weeds trees or the like. Peaking would be good, and unlike AA, I would like to see each man choosing the weapon he chooses, and not just what is left over. I am a first person gamer, so views other than down your own barrel serve little purpose for me, although the availability of an optional view doesn't bother me, and may be of use on occation. The most important issue however is the development of maps which require teamwork to negotiate effectively, and provide for good match play. One last thing, I would like to see at least some form of anti-cheat software. Even if PB can be bypassed, it may prevent some from trying. P.S. I could care less about vehicles because they normally have little to do with working as a unit. There's my two cents.

*=ATU=*Maineac

Edited June 6, 2005 by Cutter

[Slow 0]

Replays... a great tool for cheat detection. One more reason why Ghost is such a great MP game.