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I'm thinking about buying the SmartJoy Frag.

So how does it work out?

I would assume that the turning-speed is controlled in steps and as such will reflect on the mouse-movement aswell.

If this is the case, then turning would be as slow as with Xbox's gamepad.

I really miss the keyboard and mouse-setup I'm used to on the PC.

It just feels a lot more natural then working with the awkward thumbsticks.

Is the SmartJoy worth it's money?

Edited by |rsi|™deleyt
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I'm thinking about buying the SmartJoy Frag.

So how does it work out?

I would assume that the turning-speed is controlled in steps and as such will reflect on the mouse-movement aswell.

If this is the case, then turning would be as slow as with Xbox's gamepad.

I really miss the keyboard and mouse-setup I'm used to on the PC.

It just feels a lot more natural then working with the awkward thumbsticks.

Is the SmartJoy worth it's money?

Is it worth it...

Emmm i have to say yes. For offline play and maybe CooP play online its a great tool. For Team matchs it works fine but the turn around speed aint there for when your fighting in a circle battle. I use the Frag Joy Offline and only in CooP online myself, but for Team games im back to the controler becuase when you need to turn around fast you need the controler and the Mouse doesnt turn in circles very well.

It handles very well and works very good. The aiming is smooth like on PC from the games i tried it on (GR2, Halo2, Men of Valor and Full Spectrum Warroir)! Only thing i found bad on every game with Frag Joy is still the turn around speed. So for striaght on battles it works great but when you checking your back it sometimes can be a work out, But even still you can master it if you want too im sure. So yes, i give it a yes its a must have if you are a K/M player.

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  • 5 weeks later...
Also, you said the PC doesn't have a designated game controller?  Well, I beg to differ.  From the time the PC made it into homes, it has had a designated controller(s) and a dedicated game port, right up until USB came out.  It was called in fact, a GAME CONTROLLER.  A designated port on the mobo or sound card to hook up either a JOYSTICK or a GAME PAD just like the XBOX.

Funny that, eh?  The PC never designed for gaming, but has always come with a dedicated port for it.  Who knew?

LOL

not true mate...when IBM made their PC back in the day (all modern day PC's are IBM compatible's) the only place you would find a port for a game controller would be on an Atari.

All you jokers dont know what youre talkng about.

a PC by definition is a 'personal' 'computer'...ie a computer made for computing in the home, small and cheap enough for the average lamen to afford. There used to be many PC's from many manufactorers all vying for your hard erned cash. From Sinclair, IBM, Archmedies, Amstrad, GoldStar, Commodor, Apple and many more. Now zoom to 2004-5, today PC's are result of the old computer wars...who won? IBM...all modern PC are evolved from IBM archtecture...how did they win? Microsoft! MS lil plan was in the invention of some earlly business software, specificly for doing accounts and that sort of thing...very cutting edge back in the day. They made a deal with IBM...to bundle their software with their Computers...so every IBM 'PC' came bundled with the software that everyone who wanted a PC in the first place wanted to use.

so you end up with a situation where everyone wants to run accounts on MS software...that only runs on IBM compatible PC's...to top it of, no one else can compete..cos either their hardware dosnt have compareable software..or its not free...and beside the MS version was better and more widespread.

all other PC's died...accept of course Apple...who marketed a differnt group...Graphic Designers.

So all those other PC makers had to either go or make IBM compatible PC's

----

you still see this stratigy today with the bundled MS software, making it imposible for other software companies to get a foothold....and its become almost like you view the software and hardware as one in the same...you think PC...you think MS...dont ya!

back to the Xbox....

it is not a PC...it is a game consol...just because there are simularites in hardware with the XBox and IBM compatible PC's does not make it a PC...

all consols, arcade machines, handheld games like Gameboys...even calculators...are all COMPUTERS!...that does not make it a PC...because it is not a 'personal' 'computer' bult for general cumputing needs...whatever they may be...be it doing accounts, designing magazines, 3D graphics...playing games!

---

that said and done...I dont give a rats arze...I'm buying that Keyboard and mouse adapter for my Xbox...to enhance my online playing of GR2 :o=

I own a PC and an Apple MAC and G4 Titanium laptop...I bought the Xbox to play games on, not to do my accounts ;)

Edited by D Dialect
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Also, you said the PC doesn't have a designated game controller?  Well, I beg to differ.  From the time the PC made it into homes, it has had a designated controller(s) and a dedicated game port, right up until USB came out.  It was called in fact, a GAME CONTROLLER.  A designated port on the mobo or sound card to hook up either a JOYSTICK or a GAME PAD just like the XBOX.

Funny that, eh?  The PC never designed for gaming, but has always come with a dedicated port for it.  Who knew?

LOL

not true mate...when IBM made their PC back in the day (all modern day PC's are IBM compatible's) the only place you would find a port for a game controller would be on an Atari.

All you jokers dont know what youre talkng about.

a PC by definition is a 'personal' 'computer'...ie a computer made for computing in the home, small and cheap enough for the average lamen to afford. There used to be many PC's from many manufactorers all vying for your hard erned cash. From Sinclair, IBM, Archmedies, Amstrad, GoldStar, Commodor, Apple and many more. Now zoom to 2004-5, today PC's are result of the old computer wars...who won? IBM...all modern PC are evolved from IBM archtecture...how did they win? Microsoft! MS lil plan was in the invention of some earlly business software, specificly for doing accounts and that sort of thing...very cutting edge back in the day. They made a deal with IBM...to bundle their software with their Computers...so every IBM 'PC' came bundled with the software that everyone who wanted a PC in the first place wanted to use.

so you end up with a situation where everyone wants to run accounts on MS software...that only runs on IBM compatible PC's...to top it of, no one else can compete..cos either their hardware dosnt have compareable software..or its not free...and beside the MS version was better and more widespread.

all other PC's died...accept of course Apple...who marketed a differnt group...Graphic Designers.

So all those other PC makers had to either go or make IBM compatible PC's

----

you still see this stratigy today with the bundled MS software, making it imposible for other software companies to get a foothold....and its become almost like you view the software and hardware as one in the same...you think PC...you think MS...dont ya!

back to the Xbox....

it is not a PC...it is a game consol...just because there are simularites in hardware with the XBox and IBM compatible PC's does not make it a PC...

all consols, arcade machines, handheld games like Gameboys...even calculators...are all COMPUTERS!...that does not make it a PC...because it is not a 'personal' 'computer' bult for general cumputing needs...whatever they may be...be it doing accounts, designing magazines, 3D graphics...playing games!

---

that said and done...I dont give a rats arze...I'm buying that Keyboard and mouse adapter for my Xbox...to enhance my online playing of GR2 :o=

I own a PC and an Apple MAC and G4 Titanium laptop...I bought the Xbox to play games on, not to do my accounts ;)

All I can say is, I disagree, after being a professional in the field since 1990, and knowing how X-Boxes are made. But everyone is entitled to there opinion. :thumbsup:

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You say a PC is designed for gaming..i say it is not. It became designed to accommodate gaming, not specifically for it. you're argument lay in that it has always come with a dedicated game port. I know for a fact, that is not true...that came in later years..as the PC became used for games. When the PC was first in homes, games were rare. Your whole argument is stupid, when its clear a PC is for general computing...not gaming parse.

an Xbox is a console...you say its a PC...your argument is in the way it is built, presumable you mean its inners, the hardware...well that isn't the whole story is it. The Xbox is not intended to be used for personal computing...without modification its impossible, without the right OS in the background how can you run even the simplest of general software...without the right input device you cant even write. The Xbox's purpose is to run games, and only games and the ilk. It is designed to be plugged into a TV, to be interfaced with using gamepads and the like...in short it is not designed to do my accounts or for me to design 3D graphics...or produce music...or create art for print and hundred other computer tasks. Sure it may have the guts underneath that could do it...but not without a some ###### about to make it worthwhile.

An Xbox shares the same tech as modern PC's, but that in itself does not make it a PC.

All consoles are computers...they can do everything a computer can do...but without the right support from...compatible OS's and software to the correct interfaces they become redundant in that task.

I disagree with you and I am right, I am a professional in the area of product design/marketing, and have been computing and gaming since the 80's.

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Well, first off, I'm not stupid.

Second off, I am also a professional in the computer arena, and have been since 90, as have other people in this thread that share a similiar opinion to mine.

Third, PC's didn't really hit homes until 90, maybe late 89 is when it first became affordable for people to own them.

When they really hit the private sector, they did come with a game port, mounted on the sound card, or mobo, as with Packard Bells. I remember my mom's first PC that I bought her in 1990 for 4300 dollars. A 386 DX4 with 4MB RAM, a 20 MB HDD, and a Sound Blaster 16 with IDE port and Game Port for Joysticks.

Fourth, since the XBox is a P3 700, with RAM and an Nvidia graphics chip, that is a PC, with some sort of OS that tells it how to run the discs inserted.

Fifth, I disagree with your opinion of what a PC is designed for. PC's are designed to do whatever we want to do and can do with them. Period. And gaming in one form or another has been there since the IBM first hit.

So, let's just agree to disagree without the insults, or putting anyone's opinions down, like mature people.

We aren't going to agree, as will others not agree with you.

We ended this argument weeks ago until it was started up again by you, because the originator got insulting, and almost got this thread locked.

So let's just lighten up. :thumbsup:

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  • 1 month later...

ding ding, round two.

I'm getting in on this baby wayyyy late. I have a bad habit of posting on a subject only to find out that it's been done to death already.

Well after reading this thread i feel the need to chip in.

I absolutly can not believe some of the thought processes i'm reading here. The very idea that everyone should settle on an inferior input device just because it's 'the same' seems mindboggling to me.

On a basic level only the answer to the question of 'Why should people be allowed to use a m/k on a console is this. . . . Many people hate contorlers and simply 'want' to use a m/k. They can't afford $1500 for a good computer and so are happy to pay a few hundred bucks for a console to get their gaming experience. Why should they then be told they shouldnt use a m/k by otheres? Most of the time and for a sizeable number of them all of the time they won't even be playing 'against' other people.

By everybodies admission a m/k input device is superior. It's insane to insist that people dont experience their game the way they want to.

On the subject of why the console makers are eager to prevent their customers from using a m/k set up.

On the surface it seems like crazy bussiness sense. I know quite a few people who didnt buy a console for the sole reason that they hated having to use the controler for fps games. So obviously thousands of sales are lost. I would confidently guess that MS has lost hundreds of thousands of Xbox sales worldwide due to the lack of mouse support. It wouldn't even need a keyboard, just a mouse in the right hand and a controler for keys under the left.

So the folks at ms and Sony must also know this, even have research data on it. then they reason they avoid the m/k option (which would makes millions more in perhipheral sales by the way) must be quite profound from a bussiness strategy point of view . . . and the notion that they want to keep gaming 'fair' for all users just doenst cut it. they aint our big brothers, they dont care about us they care about bussiness and everything they decide is dictated by that.

I can sense the direction of their logic behind this but not the 'actual' reason.

It could be something to do with the way hardware is taxed. Perhaps toys revenue is taxed more lightly than computer hardware and a m/k attachment might change its classification.

From microsofts point of view it could be something to do with windows and ms's relationship to the hardware world. Although ulitmatly i doubt they care about anyonje and would steam roll over the entire pc hardware and software world if they could so that angle is weak.

All i know is that there is some complex strategy and thinking behind the reason but it's very unlikely to be because they 'want to keep gaming equil.

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  • 1 month later...
Foreget it!! Me and everyone else that wants equal gaming without having to worry about a m/k and bought the xbox for just that reason is just screwed, huh?

Well, I hope you guys enjoy yourselves.  I guess using your m/k on the computer isnt enough.

MODERATOR EDIT:  I realize you are frustrated.  People are just trying to post their opinions, please keep the tone conversational, not angry.

I bought a mouse/keyboard adapter because it was the most familiar and comfortable way for me to play. You have to suffer because of your console leanings? Why should I be prohibited from owning and enjoying an Xbox, just because I can't play with a joypad? I'm all thumbs with a joypad on FPS's. I need a M/K option just to contend.

Since playing with the M/K option, I can hold my own.... but there are PLENTY of HALO 2 players that carve my keister off in HALO 2..... using a regular controller. If you practice, and you get GREAT with a controller, you've got nothing to worry about.

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When a console supports mouse and a keyboard with over a hundred programmable keys I will buy that console. I believe only then console games can be complex enough for my needs.

I would love to own a console instead of a PC, consoles cost about as much as video cards and they last longer.. XBOX is... what.. 3-5 years old already and still going strong. If all my PC components were that old I would not be able to play modern games.

However console games cost much more than PC games and as we all know, PC games have much more potentiality because of complexity, ability to update and modify, free online play etc.

By the way, a joystick provides faster laptimes in racing sims than a steering wheel. So if I own a joystick but no wheel and I race online, am I a cheater? I do not think so. But who cares, a steering wheel is still a steering wheel and feels so much more authentic.

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  • 2 weeks later...
When a console supports mouse and a keyboard with over a hundred programmable keys I will buy that console. I believe only then console games can be complex enough for my needs.

Well from what i heard Xbox2 well have a keyboard and mouse for the PC version of Xbox2 so im sure there well be options to get the K/M to work on games too! So that looks like a plus!

However console games cost much more than PC games and as we all know, PC games have much more potentiality because of complexity, ability to update and modify, free online play etc.

Well again Xbox2 well support this. Updates, well sorry to say but Xbox1 already does this. Modify ''Mod'' is going to have full support of Xbox2 to mod your games anyway you want like PC. As for the Free part well as it is now no that ain't happen, but to be honest i don't think i would play Xbox2 online if it didn't charge becuase they keep it running smooth and updated maken it the best place to play online on any plateform out there with there live features! PC might be great at playing games, but im sorry to say Xbox LIVE is by far ahead of its time for a gameing online with knowen where all your friends are at any given moment no matter what you doing or playing and even being able to chat from one game to the other telling your friends what your doing or want to do. Plus haven voice chat with everyone in every single game and soon to have video chat in maybe every game where you can see each other if you want to leave your cam on with Xbox2. As of right now the PC is losen ground for the online games from what i see becuase soon Consoles well do just about everything a PC well and maybe more.

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  • 2 weeks later...
When a console supports mouse and a keyboard with over a hundred programmable keys I will buy that console. I believe only then console games can be complex enough for my needs.

I would love to own a console instead of a PC, consoles cost about as much as video cards and they last longer.. XBOX is... what.. 3-5 years old already and still going strong. If all my PC components were that old I would not be able to play modern games.

However console games cost much more than PC games and as we all know, PC games have much more potentiality because of complexity, ability to update and modify, free online play etc.

By the way, a joystick provides faster laptimes in racing sims than a steering wheel. So if I own a joystick but no wheel and I race online, am I a cheater? I do not think so. But who cares, a steering wheel is still a steering wheel and feels so much more authentic.

You mean like this:

http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/product/244950.asp

http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/product/245018.asp

There are instances when PC games cost less. But you must realize that is in a case like First to Fight where the game was slammed by the public and panned by the press. The PC title released 2 weeks later and the publisher realized that in order to recoup any money he had to drop the price.

Otherwise you would have seen both titles priced similarly. The other instance is when a PC title release not just weeks but rather months later.

There is not a title I own on the Xbox or PS2 where I found myself saying, Hmmmm I wish I had more buttons. But it is all personal preference so that is okay.

I own a Lik Sang for both consoles. They work smoothly. But there are definitely titles where using them will get you spanked. Splinter Cell CT is a good example of anti-Lik Sang ownage.

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this seems too good to be true....are there any serious drawbacks o the keyboard and mouse? does it work perfectly? any little lag or stupid things like that?

No lag or performance issues there. The main 2 drawbacks are the fact that while you can adjust sensitivity, turn speeds can be an issue. If a title does not allow you to adjust this in the options menu, you may have problems. In GR2 for example, the turn speed is locked. And if you get into a firefight and need to pivot rapidly, you will find that wiping the mouse to get turned around takes time and will get you killed. This is an issue because turning with a controller in GR2 works quite well. So in this regard you are at a disadvantage to a controller. The other issue is the fact you can only have 6 game profiles loaded at a time and if you jump around allot betwen titles you will find yourself having to reprogram the Lik Sang.

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