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Behavioral/skill differences of enemies?


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Hi everybody,

First of all, I'm glad to see that GhostRecon.Net is back on line. Sorry to learn that all the previous info in the forums is gone for good. I hope the IT team finds who did this and takes action accodingly. :angry::o=

I got Ghost Recon & DS for Xmas (YEAH!), applied the 1.3 and 1.4 patches, and after getting greased many many times I am finally getting better at it with practice, although I am in level 6 (single-player mode) under Recruit difficulty level.

This is supossed to be the "easiest" difficulty leve, but the AI for the enemies is strong enough that I had to beging saving the missions a lot to get all my team alive through each mission.

I'm curious about if the enemy AI is even strnger in Elite mode. Right now the enemy barely misses a shot and their aim, range and accuracy is very tough.

Do enemies in Elite mode behave any different? I mean, are they even harder to kill and/or the program adds even more foes in each mission?

Just want to know what to expect in Single-Player Elite mode.

Thanks a lot in advance guys!

Happy hunting!

G-Man.

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I've never really noticed a great difference in difficulty from the Vet and leet levels. It may only be me, but I think that the only difference is the enemies reaction times and shot accuracy as you raise the level. Get some more practice before trying these difficulties if you are having trouble at Recruit level. Just keep at it and you should be fine. :)

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It really depends on the way the author has scripted the missions. If we talk about the RSE missions only, the elite enemy have a few more skill points plus there are usually a few more of them. For example in the Embassy mission the number of enemy are: Recruit 26, Veteran 49, Elite 56. When using RSE's actors in missions I never seem to notice much difference in the skill between the Recruits and the Elite. It's having more of them to contend with that seems to make the most difference to difficulty. Spotting distance has a pretty big effect also although I don't think RSE varies this depending on the difficulty selected. It is ususally set for a given map and envirinment file, and stays the same for each difficulty setting.

Cheers, Jack :)

Edited by Jack57
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Dear Killa_N_Manila & Jack57,

Thanks a bunch for sharing your thoughts with me and the rest of the community.

Jack57, What's RSE? I'm afraid I am not familiar with that acronym.

Thanks.

G-Man.

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g-man, youre right, even in the recruit level the difficulty is extremely hard and its not even realistic. With such weaponry and such training, the enemy cannot be so tough and accurate. Theres no need of any "training" whatsoever, since gameplay isnt really related to skill in elite level, the enemy can strike whenever, whereever , and since they can shoot trough corners, its really hard to practice for that. I found out that theres possibility to stay alive in those hard missions in veteran/elite difficulty levels, but the gameplay is so much slower and thats why much more unrealistic that its not really worth it.

I think elite and veteran levels, enemies just react MUCH more faster and they hit with their first shot, even with some pistol from range of > 100m...

My opinion, elite and veteran levels are somewhere out there in difficulty scale. Recruit is most realistic, (=realistic reaction times, realistic numbers of enemies, but still way too accurate shots).

Heres my question, is there any difference to AI wether youre standing or prone ? do they see you faster or is it harder for them to spot you if youre prone?

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Hrmm, I only play on elite mode, ever since the day I first started GR (mostly out of stubborness). And so now I have no problem with it at all.

I'd definately say yes, it is harder for the AI to see you if you're prone or crouched. But that's just of my opinion, as I find being prone/crouched doesn't get me shot at as much. ;)

I've never seen AI shoot someone beyond 100m with a handgun though, except in Roguespear, and only in a mod (Fear).

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Dear Camouflage and Wicked,

Thanks for jumping into the discussion.

Both of you have brought up another 2 interesting points:

1) How harder it is for the enemy not only to sopt you but also to shoot you when you're prone and/or crouched?

2) Would a better way to camouflage (i.e. the Invisile Sniper mod) make it much harder for the enemy to spot you and kill you (i.e. delayed reaction time and hopefully accuracy when shotting at you)?

3) Same as question 2 but regarding silencers for weapons (this one might fall directly under Mod questions I guess since I don't think there are long-range weapons with silencers in Ghost Recon).

4) Would using Mods (i.e. the Invisile Sniper mod) alter differently the AI of the enemy in Single-Player mode?

Thanks much in advance guys.

Best,

G-Man.

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When I started playing GR I did it on recruit, later I foud out that there is no much difference, recruit or elite. Mostly same thing, just number of enemies is greater on elite in most mods.

And yes, you are much harder to hit when you crouch or prone beacose you have lesser siluete. There was a disscusion about this in old forum and if I remeber well someone asked guys from RSE about it and they something like this: that for AI there is no importance what kind of uniform you use all it counts is you stealth stat. That means you can wear artic cammo in desert and if your stealt is high you are not to be seen. So insible mod wont help you... Many times enemy AI run at me, while I was prone/crouched and didn't see me :wacko: I guess that has something with it. And while you are prone you aim better or should I say you can shoot more accurate. You can notice that reticule is a bit smaller when you are crouched than standing, or prone than crouched or standing. Maybe you cann't see it when you use pistol or assault rifle but with sniper you can. ;)

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G-man, I have a feeling once you get more practice with GR, you will find recruit too easy for you. Those vet and leet levels are there so you won't get board. I've played the campaigns multiple times and it stays interesting playing on the different difficulties. Also, when playing with skilled players over the internet, the game will only be difficult at the vet or leet levels. Mix it up, have fun, and keep trying. I think camouflage had a point that recruit may be the most realistic, but in my opinion, I think it is the least fun. Play the on the level you enjoy, but you should never limit yourself and hinder the skills that you have the potential to gain. :)

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For #2 : No, as someone else pointed out in a different discussion, it doesn't 'matter' what uniform you wear against the AI. They will still see you no matter what, invisible or no.

#3 : What do you mean regarding the silenced weapons? How they work against AI? If you use them, the AI will find it hard to track/hear you compared to using say the OICW on Full Auto. Though going single shot with the OICW/SA80 can still be almost just as stealthy. The M4 Socom is pretty long range, or you could use the silenced sniper rifle for long range silenced shooting.

4.) Depends on the mod, that specific mod wouldn't, unless it has other elements that effect the AI (like ai behaviour changes, etc). Alfa's new realism mod would change AI behaviour though, I recommend giving it a try.

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I listed true facts here :

- The color of your uniform (green, white, gray/white) does NOT matter to AI.

- AI will notice you based on range

- If your stealth points are high enough, you can close up to enemy without them noticing you

And unofficial own opinions :

- Since enemies use so called 'auto aim' , it means that they target to visible GR team soldier. If you go prone, the enemy still see you and 'auto aim' works. Conclusion : Only matters when you can prone behind obstacle so that you can hide "the spot" in your body where auto aim is targetting.

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g-man, I do only single player and use the following tactics that work for me. I rarely use a sniper, I find rifleman more effective for most maps. If I use a sniper, I put a rifleman with them for cover. I try to engage the enemy as far out as I can. I haven't jacked up my zoom or accuracy and use the m4 or m16 alot. If I'm prone at 100+ and take the shot, I find the enemy has a hard time locating me, unless when you take the shot, and don't have anything behind him(hill,rock, building) and your round continues on to another enemy group. I move in crouch almost all the time. Lower profile, less chance of being seen. Never set up on edge of hill or cliff, just like in real life, your outline is easy to spot from far away. Never hesitate crossing a rise-get over it quickly--prone doesn't hide you well enough in those situations. If I'm sneaking up on enemy--I use crouch and and shuffle--makes less noise than crawling as less of your body is in contact with the ground. I use grenades sparingly--they give you away the fastest, plus they usually bring many more back in your direction. I like to set my AI up in good cover positions, then use my m203 to bring the enemys in. They'll go to where you fired from, so make sure your AI is not close to possible lines of fire. Lastly, if you are in close to the enemy-take a few shots and know where you are going to move next beforehand because they will hit that spot hard--always shoot and move, shoot and move. You dictate where the fight will occur so when you can, take your time. I've taken over an hour before to complete some missions. For the missions with time constraints, like battlefield, vilinus, where your tanks go stupid and just keep moving forward, it doesn't play well with friendly AI. You have to do most of it. Lot's of replays. I find the enemy ai to be the most realistic I've seen in a computer game, except for their accuracy and knowing exactly where you threw grenade from--should have been set up to investigate area within 20-30 yds of impact zone. Hope this helps some. And Camo is right, higher stealth points make your presence less obvious to enemy.

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WOW!!! Great, rich, detailed and valuable information! Very interesting indeed!

Do you know by any chance if the AI of the enemies react the same during night missions? How does weather conditions and light (day vs. twilight vs. night) influence the way enemies perform and react?

One thing that I find as a flaw in the AI based on your comments, and providing that understood correctly, is the fact that the enemy can spot you if you throw granades. That is so unrealistic. I am sruprised that this hasn't been address by RSE. Something worth mentioning to them. Who knows, they might do something about it for future patches. <_<

Wicked, you mentioned a silenced sniper rifle. I'm just in level 6 and I don't recall seeing it as part of the sniper kit, if memory serves. Is this rifle part of the regular game or a Mod?

TRC, great Single-Player tactics! Thanks for sharing! I'll definitely put that to practice to see first hand how my missions develop.

This is a great forum with great and knowledegable people!

Thanks to you all. I truely appreciate all your comments, advice and help.

Hopefully one day I'll get so proficient with GR to then make the jump and join some Multiplayer missions. I've heard such great comments about it that I want to give it a shot.

Talk to you guys soon.

Best as always,

G-Man.

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Guest DeLeyt {AlphaSquad}

How strange to hear all of you guys saying that recruit is not that much more different then elite.

There is actually a BIG difference:

1) the spotting distance is much smaller on recruit.

2) the accuracy is much worse on recruit.

3) the "awareness" that the AI has in recruit is not as good as in elite.

4) the amount of enemies is less then on elite.

You will notice it if you pay attention to it more closely.

deleyt.gif

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Wicked, you mentioned a silenced sniper rifle. I'm just in level 6 and I don't recall seeing it as part of the sniper kit, if memory serves. Is this rifle part of the regular game or a Mod?

Island Thunder. You should get it if you haven't got it yet.

It's the SR25SD. It's quite cool.

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Are you playing in campaign mode? If so you may never use these weapons, aside from what the specialists provide you. It's been awhile since I played the original campaigns.

The enemies react the same regardless of weather, night/day, etc. The enemy can spot you if you make noise from anything (grenades/bullets/rockets) and begin tracking you. It's this god-like ability for them to shoot you at a glance with a single round in the eye upon rounding a corner 100m away that annoys me.

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DeLeyt, Thanks for the recap on the facts.

The_Slink, thanks for the tip! Guess what, thanks to you Island Thunder is in the mail my way already. THANKS!

Wicked, that's right. I'm playing in campaing mode. Sounds like the AI would benefit with some fine tuning....

I think the post on the new Realism Mod could be interesting to try. But I think I'll experiment with it once I complete all GR's Elite levels in single-player mode.

Further comments are welcome.

Thanks.

G-Man.

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Guest DeLeyt {AlphaSquad}

G-man,

When you're ready for some Muliplayer games, you are welcome to jump into our server and play some.

We run a lagfree dedicated 24/7 double OC1 which should provide you with some quality playinghours.

IP=66.250.220.245

deleyt.gif

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Hy G-men, in my humble opinion there is a significant diference between recruit

veteran and elite level of playing. With training I have learned that all that maters is tactics and position, position, position. I usually play at veteran level.

Greetings slodier :o=

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Do you know by any chance if the AI of the enemies react the same during night missions? How does weather conditions and light (day vs. twilight vs. night) influence the way enemies perform and react?

AI should be the same at night, only the spotting distance is shorter at nights.

I believe there isnt any difference to the AI in different weather conditions.

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The_Slink, thanks for the tip! Guess what, thanks to you Island Thunder is in the mail my way already. THANKS!

Uh...what did I do?

I just said that the SR25SD is in IT.

Oh well I have down my good deed for the day.

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Widowmaker, thanks for sharing your observations. Looks like there is plenty of room for playability of GR when going into combat at different levels. I just completed Mission 6 and I found it a bit easier for some reason. Perhaps persisntance is starting to pay off... :D

Hi again Camouflage. Man, it's a bit dissapointing to know that AI is independent of weather and light conditions. Oh well... at least I know what I'm up against when in combat. I truely hope RSE addresses some of these issues in future patches.

The_Slink, when you told me that IT came with that sniper weapon I was sold on the idea of getting IT!!!! It's going to take me a while to go through GR/DS/IT, so the future holds for me lots of hours with great fun! So thanks again for the tip.

DeLeyt, THANKS FOR THE INVITATION!!!! As soon as I feel more comfortable with the GUI, weapons, and gain more experience in combat (I still do so dumb mistakes I can't forgive myself) I will most definitely stop by to do some multiplaying. I've never played a game in multiplayer mode. I look forward to that! :D

And to touch base on the AI, I read in the past threads about who dumb the virtual soldiers in your squad getting killed so easily. I haven't noticed that much myself (I have Patched 1.4). To me it seems their AI is decent enough so they can take care of themselves according the situation. Although I am still playin in "Recruit" level and this could be because the enemy AI is more forgiven. Perhaps in elite the story is different.

As always, your comments will be deeply appreciated.

Thanks a lot everybody!

And happy hunting!

G-Man.

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