Syncopator Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 Great investigative report Snowman - good stuff. Unfortunately your discovery seems to suggest that GR2 for the PC is not worth holding our breath for. Not until it actually comes into being. It is clear that as a key UBI product - GR2 is being aimed fair and square at the console market with specific X-Box and PS2 versions. The PC product will either be a good deal of time later and perhaps much more what we are after...or as I seriously now believe (with much dismay) just a port of the X-box console variant. Sorry...but if I was to put money down on it today...I'd say the latter is the business plan for UBI - not the former. Piracy has precluded the chance to earn the profits required to justify the former. Time=Money. Straight PC Port=Short Time. Deal done. Still...at least the GR brand looks lik eits being developed further which is good news for this site and many like it...just a shame that the very device being used to surf these hallowed pages doesnt get a look in for the game anymore. We shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARDelta Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 Actually, using "designated marksmen" is based more on reality than you might think. When we deployed to afghanistan there simply were not enough snipers to cover the large ranges encountered, with the result that a number of M-14s were resurrected with scopes, and distributed one per squad. The designated marksman did not have sniper training per se, but the increased numbers allowed squads to have a greater range and lethality than if they just used 5.56 rounds. Designated marskmen did not wear ghillie suits. Good point, Tortfeaser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexsis Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 is that it? Is the pc version just a bloomin after thought? *throws chair across room* thats how it always is when it comes to consloe vs pc games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brainman2k Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 Piracy has precluded the chance to earn the profits required to justify the former. i highly doubt, that piracy is the reason for such actions. x-box-games can be copied as easily as pc-games.....but it's not that public like pc-piracy is. if games are ported 1:1 from console to pc, then it's for marketing reasons (money)....but to say it's because of piracy is imo not correct. thats what they tell ya to justify these actions.... btw: i like the idea of marksmen being part of the team instead of "real" snipers. in gr1 for example i saw no reason to use a sniper in sp and mp (besides the fact, that they could not hide in not existent grass). just get a m4socom in singleshot and you're far off better than with a sniper-rifle. exactly that is the thing i'd like to see in gr2 (marksmen). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fr1j0l3 Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 Great report Snow! Thanks! I like what I saw, as a buggy, beta console.... The Red storm guys know what they are doing, and I still think this will be an amazing game in the series. Bet ya all the naysayers will be the first ones lining up at best buy to be the first on the block too. Thanks again Snow, great job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornToKill Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 Well i have to agree that the demo, is there to get it noticed. I want a bloody good firefight at the end of the mission tho, but i want a stealth approach to that Airbase before moving in and takin them all down. This is the Crap-Box version after all, but some great effects, love em. medic hmmm sucks if he gets fully recovered., over shoulder view, better be able to swap to your preference. Dumb AI's!! , again crap box version, also god mode on, makes them appear to shoot worse than they do, also no way would you walk out standing up with an AT4 rocket looking right at a guy in an Mg nest. Its there to sell the game to kiddies.( they'll be ###### when they get wiped out trying). The Rambo style chopper take down was a little O.T.T. but can live with that.Everyone with an AT4, nahh frags maybe. SAS in that mission, i didn't see and smoke shields being used One NOTE!!! at the begining of the clip it states " bugs in the demo will be fixed in final release", so lets not make to many judgements yet. I will save my final decision until i play the demo, but what i've seen in the demo clip does not warrant a £40 - £50 price tag. Ultimatly if they do not produce something that is worthwhile, there is enuf talent in the modding community to drum up our own GR2 mod.Just need to get some good coders to decompile and rip the source code to pieces, and add our own enhancements. ( no monetary gain tho, copyright would ave us ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syncopator Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 i highly doubt, that piracy is the reason for such actions. x-box-games can be copied as easily as pc-games.....but it's not that public like pc-piracy is. Not the issue. The reality is that PC users have a) Internet access (broadband especially) and b) CD/DVD-writers, almost across the board. ie. PC users typically involve themselves in the piracy/transfer of pirated material MUCH easier than the typical console owner...many of which have no computing skills whatsoever and whom have to rely on market stalls, external suppliers, etc. With Kazaa and p2p in general - the PC market represents a much more aggressive market for pirate and unlicensed software. That dollar difference between those PC users and the console market is substatial enough - that was my point. Yes you can pirate an XBox game...but a guy with an Xbox can't pirate/copy anything himself. Any idiot with an average PC setup can however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calius Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 Well i have to agree that the demo, is there to get it noticed. I want a bloody good firefight at the end of the mission tho, but i want a stealth approach to that Airbase before moving in and takin them all down. This is the Crap-Box version after all, but some great effects, love em. medic hmmm sucks if he gets fully recovered., over shoulder view, better be able to swap to your preference. Dumb AI's!! , again crap box version, also god mode on, makes them appear to shoot worse than they do, also no way would you walk out standing up with an AT4 rocket looking right at a guy in an Mg nest. Its there to sell the game to kiddies.( they'll be ###### when they get wiped out trying). The Rambo style chopper take down was a little O.T.T. but can live with that.Everyone with an AT4, nahh frags maybe. SAS in that mission, i didn't see and smoke shields being used One NOTE!!! at the begining of the clip it states " bugs in the demo will be fixed in final release", so lets not make to many judgements yet. I will save my final decision until i play the demo, but what i've seen in the demo clip does not warrant a £40 - £50 price tag. Ultimatly if they do not produce something that is worthwhile, there is enuf talent in the modding community to drum up our own GR2 mod.Just need to get some good coders to decompile and rip the source code to pieces, and add our own enhancements. ( no monetary gain tho, copyright would ave us ) Yes very true, the kiddies that get this game based on that footage are in for a shock. Ive downloaded the footage and had a good look based on "god mode" & "showing off all aspects" - eg ragdoll / other physics .. how people stand etc and remembering all of that I now see this clip as a good demostration of whats to come, before hand I was dissapointed but now its put into perspective Im looking forward to seeing this unfold for PC still as much. I certainly like the quick commands (very welcomed) .. and also I did like the action where main leader gets held down behind crate by 2 tangos (before he heads up to 1st nest). The way they fire and he shuffles back away & frags does look impressive. Sound seems good also (even if clips compressed). I was not at all into the shooting down of heli .. thats just looked like Medal Of honour or something ... bit crap, but hey ho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWG Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 There's seems to be a lot of flak being thrown at the demo, I just find it amusing that much of it is aimed at things I see as positive developments in terms of realism. All team members having an M136/AT4 -- that's a generous scale of issue, but IMO much more realistic than limiting them to a 'demo' class that simply doesn't exist in real life. Adding the AT4 kits to all classes was pretty much the first thing I did to GR1. Now here's hoping it's one each and no more, changing the AT4 kits to 1 round only was the second change I made (closely followed by adding all the specialist weapons to the normal options). 4 man fireteam -- this is the building block of military units worldwide, I'd prefer multiple fireteams, in fact I'd prefer the option to switch into any allied trooper on the battlefield (if only to work around the inevitable limitations to the command interface), but 6 is neither fish nor fowl. If it's meant to be an A Team, then 12 is the right number. Snipers in normal gear -- as has been made clear by other people the designated marksman is just another fireteam member with a somewhat better rifle. The kind of sniper who needs a ghillie suit is a battalion level asset and operates separately from normal squaddies. Kits with primary, secondary, grenades and AT4 -- at last! Most squaddies may not carry a pistol, but when SF do it doesn't mean they leave the grenades behind and disposable LAWs are slung over your shoulder, not traded off for pistols or grenades. Small maps -- they spent an 11 minute demo running around it without doubling back on themselves, name a GR1 map on which you can do that. Helicopters -- a lot of criticism for some apparently poor edge detection, but it's in game, it's flying and it can be shot down. Seems pretty positive to me. Poor AI -- and GR1 AI is better how? Red Storm's AI has always been poor at best, 'good' AI behaviour pretty much depends on scenario design limiting them to the minimum set of options, all of which are realistic. (Note that when I say 'poor' I mean 'unrealistic', actually knowing something about AI and game theory I'm reasonably impressed with the achievement, but it doesn't make them good soldiers). Did I have criticisms? Sure: The demo scenario still seemed to have some very dubious logic behind it -- 'there are jump jets at the edge of the airfield, take them out before they can takeoff'. Okay, and just why haven't they taken off already in order to influence the battle? Needing a 'pretty' demo scenario might explain it, but given the military logic of the typical GR scenario I don't hold out a lot of hope. Lousy 'British' voice talent (though hardly unique). I'm no fan of third person view, but I wouldn't have expected them to use anything else for the demo. As for certain comments about France and white flags, these would be the same 'white-flag wavers' with an SF team currently on the ground in Afghanistan under US control? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brainman2k Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 Yes you can pirate an XBox game...but a guy with an Xbox can't pirate/copy anything himself. Any idiot with an average PC setup can however. okay, good point....but i heard of ppl who bought xboxes and immidiadely got them modded with big hdds and some new software-versions to play cracked games (i think they wouldn't have bought them, if they wouldn't had the chance to get them cracked). and if you have someone with good connection (to internet-sporces), then you got the newest games before they're even in the stores. like you said: piracy on pc-platform is much easier. i agree. but many of them have both...pc for ripping and x-box for playing.... ...but end of ot. back on topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCO*AFZ* Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 Here is one more point to add... ever try arcade mode in GR 1? some of the stuff is very similar to the demo... you can take more hits, run faster ect.... I think arcade mode was ment to be what the xbox was gonna be. possibly the same deal here, where in arcade mode on the pc, it is like this... and if you shut arcade mode off as every pc does, wallla an awesome game. Just another point to ponder... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peanut_Budder Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 my most sincerest thanks to snow for such an awesome report and his going to E3 at his sacrifice (or is it? ) i just have some questions that i'd like to get a clear answer on. ok, there's rumors going on about 4 guys in a team, does that mean all together in one mission, all you're allowed to have is four guys, or four guys per-Alpha, Bravo and Charlie teams? if it's four guys only for the ENTIRE MISSION(for now), will this be subject to change? you said kits were defined by their specialty correct? (like SAW is for support and SPR for snipers). then does that mean like some riflemen are limited to M8s, and some are limited to M16s or M4s? or can any rifleman pick out whatever his choice of rifles and additional equipment? also, in the kit selection, is it a pull down menu and you click on each weapon you want(like RvS, Rogue Spear and every other Rainbow Six style weapon selection), or is it the GR1 style click-per-kit (ie, you cant have a MP5 and frags unless it's part of the designed kit list) can we customize weapons? b/c i see a M249 with a death dot on that Specialist's SAW. thank you, and if any of the questions were already answered, please forgive me. (i just saw this topic and there's already a whopping 4 pages. i tried to read all of them, but there's too much!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiteStalka Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 Keep an open mind people. I agree with the others that say "lets wait and see". This is a BETA and also remember they showed the console version and not the PC. The two differ greatly. We'll just have to follow the developments until November. -NiteStalka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budgie Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 From what I've seen, GR2 seems to offer fewer choices; more restrictive kit selection, smaller team, more scripted, run and gun missions. PC gamers like more choices not fewer. Unfortunatley consoles are where the big bucks are and PC versions - especially at big companies like Ubi or EA and even Lucasarts - are becoming an afterthought. In order to set the record straight I went all the way to the top. Here's what Donald Rumsfled had to say: "Is GR2 dumbed down? Sure. Are Ubi more concerned about consolers? You bet. Does this mean that more good games will go over to younger audiences? Probably. Can I do anything about it? Nope. There are known knowns and known unknowns and we know some knowns like GR2 will come out on consoles first, but we also know what we don't know, and that's what will happen to the PC version. We do know that Ubi seems to be run by a bunch of 8 year olds and I've got Clancy on his way round there with a baseball bat right now." So hopefully the problem will be sorted. Oi, yoi yoi! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silent_op Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 (edited) Now that was priceless budgie. Edited May 14, 2004 by silent_op Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babydave Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 (edited) lol @ budgie whoa182 thats true we cant see exactly what happened but from the look of the demo and the reports the guy WAS shot and he WAS back up and fighting in seconds, please dont tell me that in real life thats gonna happen. I play Joint Ops for that kinda stuff and quick action. Id agree with badages and stuff to stop bleeding and to keep the soldier alive (think back to R6 with the differences between DEAD and INCAPACITATED) through the campaign as that is realistic but im afraid that restoring their health so they can fight again is not realism... Edited May 14, 2004 by babydave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyro_Monty Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 ... but im afraid that restoring their health so they can fight again is not realism... And who is to say that that's the case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babydave Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 yeah i said from the look of it, if the guy did just get knocked down instead of taking on the limp like in GR1 then thats ok,ive said that before but I dont expect to see soldiers taking bad wounds and then being 'helped' by a medic so they can run around straight after, which is also what may have happened. Im gonna wait for more info before i criticise the medic in the demo anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyro_Monty Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 Heh, glad to hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babydave Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 hehe its been a stressful day , i got this from http://www.actiontrip.com/features/e32004ghostrecon2.phtml and you'll even carry med kits which you can use to heal your wounded comrades. As far as I know, this basically means you'll be able to actually revive your downed soldiers so as to avoid having to reload the game every time one of them gets shot. I'm not so sure how this option will be regarded by the Ghost Recon fans though, as it sounds a bit too arcade-like for a tactical military shooter. Hopefully that isnt what happens in the PC version Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobblers Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 hehe its been a stressful day , i got this from http://www.actiontrip.com/features/e32004ghostrecon2.phtml and you'll even carry med kits which you can use to heal your wounded comrades. As far as I know, this basically means you'll be able to actually revive your downed soldiers so as to avoid having to reload the game every time one of them gets shot. I'm not so sure how this option will be regarded by the Ghost Recon fans though, as it sounds a bit too arcade-like for a tactical military shooter. Hopefully that isnt what happens in the PC version Hmmm, not a great report eh? The thing that worries me most is the game feeling too arcadey as well as the 3rd person view. I'm surprised we haven't had any screenshots of the 1st person view, especially considering this is what made GR1 so popular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckThunder Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 (edited) There are no AT4's in the E3 video, the SF dudes are using Carl Gustavs (notice the grips, optics, and they can be reloaded). Also, when the "weapons circle" appears (to select/switch your weapon) the handgun "silhouette" looks to be a Mk. 23 Mod 0, not an M9. Some thoughts, take care. Edited May 14, 2004 by ChuckThunder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babydave Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 well still they all have anti tank weapons which isnt the way GR1's gameplay was based around. Also i think there was a report about the m9 berreta being the sidearm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedHerring Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 Did you see how fast that guy reloaded his AT? It was faster than switching magazines. I think one LAW would be better than a honking AT4 (or Carl Gustav, or whatever the hell it is) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYR_32 Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 If you look at the on screen weapon thing it says AT4....and the pistol is an M9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts