GR2 @E3: A Fan's View

[budgie]

Don't hold back there Stalker; tell us how you really feel...

[CR6]

Great report Snowman!

Thanks for sharing the info with us. That was more informative than any other report I've seen so far.

[Hostile Person]

I know how u feel mate. I feel the same, but have u seen the E3 trailer (1:21 minute long) at www.ghostrecon-2.com ? That looks like GR2 PC version to me.

[*NexuS*]

Not really sure what to make of it, my initial reaction was tempered by the hope that the publishers have given E3 a demo for consoles. Some of the stuff in the demo was appealing, the wounded actor rolling around on the floor, IMHO, is a step up from the old "I've been hit" ....but I'll carry on anyway cause I'm hard !! I always thought the energy carried by even a small round would be enough to put someone down, if only for a few seconds. The medic ability, I've not made my mind up yet, could be good, could be a nightmare, but does offer some interesting thoughts for team vs team.

One thing that jumped out from the demo straight away was the AI intelligence, or rather an apparent lack of it. Can you imagine going fully upright into that situation in GR and coming out without a scratch? Me neither, I saw one AI in the MG bunker, orientated towards the player avatar, whilst ignoring the friendly AI about 5 meters behind him, even though he was taking fire ! Later, there were AI behind the big crtae like objects that appeared to just stand there, waiting for a Ghost to pop round the corner and finish 'em off.

The "ragdoll" effect for dead tangos wasn't too bad, maybe a little "loose" perhaps, but I guess that's just personal preference. The tracer effect did not impress me much, looked too much like laser beams, again, that's just MHO.

On a more positive note, I thought some of the features that are hinted at, could be very nice. For me, a lot of stuff is dependant on modability, the lifeblood of GR, the mortar barrage for example. If that is something that can be scripted into a mission, and not just a preset effect for that particular map, would be great. Also, the large fuel tank that gets waxed at the end points to the ability to script certain weapons pointing/firing at certain dynamic objects provided, again, that it wasn't just prepared for that particular sequence.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see what appears over the next few months, but hey, if it sucks, we can always port the maps over to GR and let the experts take over.

[Brainman2k]

the trailer looked awesome to me. the actual e3-footage was (imo) too arcady. some good new features in gr2 (handsignals, better gfx, etc.) and some which i do not want to see in a tac-shooter like gr2 (completelyheal-medic, ots-view, etc.)

i hope that ubi doesn't do the same mistake as interplay did (if they survive the next few months): concentrating on consoles sucks!

gr2 is developed by rse itself? i cannot believe, that they would do this to the community which brought the success to the gr-series. i do hope that the pc version is different from the xbox-vesrion seen on e3. (similar to r6:3 on pc and xbox).

btw: thx for the reoprt snowman! the gamespot-article that was mentioned a few pages before is a "joke", right? lmao.

[Stig]

Cheers snowman

There are some really cool new features in it. I personaly liked the look of taking out that tower. & the general phisics/graphics & enviroment seemed a big improvement but..... I have some big worries. here's a couple of questions to put me at ease.

1) The guy that was healed was he completely mended or just patched up enough to fight on with a gimpy.

2) Was the map size really as small as it appeared in the mpeg.

3) how much kit could they take & was all of this optional.

I would love to disagree with whats been said & I'm clinging on to my wish list hopeing R.S.E. havn't sold out to the run & gun club like every other ****** development company but after seeing the clip I'm now struggling to keep the faith. From what I've seen so far it still looks like a cool game but it's not GR. I hope I'm wrong

It looks like GR, DS & IT may be living on my hard drive for another couple of years.

Please please please RSE prove me wrong.

[NightCrawler]

I'll stay optimistic for the time being.

Thanks for the report.

[Loot]

Not a bad looking game IMO, but then again I'm easy to satisfy, I'll just get it for PS2. Mac ports take too long anyways and they're usually barely worth the trouble (RvS ...) But I agree it is NOT Ghost Recon 2. Maybe they should call it something like zany-third-person-rambo-recon.

To me it looks like a combination of several games. Some of the tracer effects/ragdoll effects, etc. borrows itself from games like Hitman 2 (and the other game by those people I forgot what it is??) The third person looks like if you mixed SOCOM's third person with those 3DO Army Men games (lol). Overall though, I'd buy it for console, not for computer and NOT as a sequel to the [Ghost Recon] because it won't be anything like it.

[Zeko]

Thx for the report Snowman.

Did someone here thinking that this mission was possibly played on rookie level so that guy/team wouldnt get owned by enemy too much? And i agree with sleeper here. They just had to show explosions and fast action. About 3rd person view, IMO that was just eye candy cuz it shows a lot more enviroment and it also shows that silent commanding with arms.

So i think we'll see how all looks when demo is here. Stalker_Z chill m8, u'll get gray hair of it.

[Pyro_Monty]

Guys, all the complaints about the style in which the demo mission was played are moot.

First of all, the demo was played with 'god mode' activated.

Secondly, if they had shown the mission - from start to finish as it was - played stealthily, complete with sniper placements and full team pepper-potting, the video would have gone on for about 20 minutes. They needed to give a (fairly) brief view of the game, and the only way to do that is to run through the mission fast.

[JT_Snowman]

Sorry to be the bearer of all this bad news for the tact and realism fans (me included). But keep in mind the RSE programmer, David Hamm, mentioned way back when Island Thunder was released that the PC team and the Console team were headed in two different directions.

Hey snowman, I got a question....And this has just been nawing at me....When you saw the snipers ingame..Did they have ghillie suits or anything? Cuz from what ive seen of the GR2 characters (and it's been limited, so thi is just an assumption), they didnt look very "militaryish", liek the guys in the first GR did...And if the snipers dont have ghillie suits...I'm really not sure I wanna buy it.

Loot: It looks like the artists have gone for a different look for the snipers, which they now call marksmen. No guillie suits.

The one marksman that was playable was Alicia Diaz. She was kitted out in woodland BDUs, body armor, olive drab Camelbak hydration system, baseball cap, and Oakley wraparounds.

You've already seen Mike Kim, the other marksman, in similar dress but with a boonie hat with scrim.

There are some really cool new features in it. I personaly liked the look of taking out that tower. & the general phisics/graphics & enviroment seemed a big improvement but..... I have some big worries.  here's a couple of questions to put me at ease.

1) The guy that was healed was he completely mended or just patched up enough to fight on with a gimpy.

2) Was the map size really as small as it appeared in the mpeg.

3) how much kit could they take & was all of this optional.

1)He looked completely healed to me. I didn't notice a limp of any kind.

2)Yes, this particular map seems confined in some spots. Most of the playable area was within the airfield confines. No access to the surrounding area outside the fences

3)Kits were defined by the soldier you chose in pre-mission (Markman/Sniper, Rifleman, Gunner, Grenadier?); usually four weapons: a primary weapon, a secondary, AT-4, and grenades. Although in the demo there was a lot of functionality missing. For instance only the rifleman character and his weapons were playable.

Questions:

How does kit selection work?

Is the point and click orders system like the upcoming Brothers in Arms (which looks fantastic BTW)?

How many people on the team?

How to select them?

Kits were assigned to soldier class as mentioned above.

I haven't seen BiA system yet, but what you did was hold down the "Y" buttton and choose one of four directions on a sliced-pie menu (like Raven Shield).

4 players all in one fireteam.

Soldier selection functionality wasn't implemented yet from what I could tell.

[Sart]

Well, one of the things I'm worried about (Besides the other 8 Billion things in the 11 minuets) is the lack of a real squad. Four men is crap, period (IMO).

However, I did see some things that brought my hopes up, kind of, for the PC Ver. In the new Trailer:

A.) They seemed to dress a lot like each other (Unlike the 4 in all the XBOX previews, and 11 minute movie.) just like GR1.

B.) I counted 5 Ghost, at the end, it was really fast so I might have missed another one.

But the trailer could mean nothing in the end. Commanding multiple troops in the heat of battle was one of the best things about Ghost Recon. I hope they don't kill that.

[Stig]

@ Snowman

thanx for the speed reply

[Kurtz]

Keep this in mind, the X Box game is geared more to first time FPS players, if you guaged the original GR on its X Box impressions, you would get the same effect. Also, the producer said that the demo level was an introductory level to the game for first timers to get adjusted to the controls and gameplay, and introduce them to the game, sort of like a tutorial. That is why the map is smaller. She said later levels would be far more expansive and offer any number of ways to do the missions.

I like the optional OTS view, but would use it sparingly. I am looking forward to the game.

[cobaka]

I got the impression from the producer that the "number of ways" meant a number of routes - i.e. you get channeled to certain specific paths but as a big "bonus" you get more than one route like some other games

[mordred]

Big NONO to ubisoft,

Im not even normally disappointed i'm VERY disappointed in this trailer.

I even stopped looking at it .............why?

this is way imo :

* they run like bloody 'wooden' characters, and i dont mean that they got GOD mode on (which they obviously do...........i hope or the game is even more crap)

* no sense what so ever of real GR-feeling we experienced in gr1.

* way too much arcade, way to much, if i wanted that id pull my doom1 out of that pile of crap i have in my closet, dust it of and put it on my machine.........seems like a hell of a lot more fun !!

* unrealistic behaviour and the enemy seems just dumber than dumb.....

* this all feels too american, 'lets g in and kick ass without using the tiniest bit of braincells!!'

i can only hope :

*this stuff DOESNT sell !!!!!

*this stuff is gonna be seriuosly altered!!! for the pc, because it stinks

I've been with the game ever since it came out, i putted months and months of work in it too (modding, clan-forming, matching, u name it and ive been there),

and im still proud of the way gr1 changed my gaming experience, but i WONT step 5years back on gaming !!!!! They had a terrific game, lets hope they dont ruin it !!! i dont need no bloody arcade!!!!!!

-mordred-

i never played gr1 on a console, pls let somebody tell me its this crappy on a console too, than i will still have some faith in gr2-pc version

Edited May 13, 2004 by mordred

[deleyt]

Thanks for the reports Snowman

[whoa182]

This is how i see it.

- GR 1 was different on the Xbox ( more arcade ) than it was on the PC

- The new GR engine is using Soft Shadows, Dynamic lighting and othe new technology

- It still has kept the GR look to it

- The medic is sensible if used right

- Ragdoll effects are a step forward than Animations !

- Physics engine will give better gameplay if ithey make it relevent to the game play.

- running speed was fine ( few people mentioned that )

Listen... this was E3, they wanted to show people a game, there is no point in showing a game where you are stealthy and you kill 2 enemies in 11 minutes.

The 3rd person thing, They wanted to show off the game , character movements and animations. They could not of achieved that effectivly with the Reticule View.

AND FINALLY .... Face it... you hardcore GR fans like a " Dull " game where you kill an enemy every 10 minutes, that wasnt going to work so they had to Give a all out arcady part of the game.

( dont take offense to that but thats what it seems like )

And wait actually , what is actually arcadey about that battle. Some of you experienced Fire fights in real life ?

I noticed the AI were dumb and just stood there and these are probably bugs. Remember its a BETA, there are loads of bugs to be fixed.

Ive been in the Joint Operations Beta for a while now, and i can seee how much improvements are made every day, im sure RSE will get on it and the PC players will get what they want Almost

Edited May 13, 2004 by whoa182

[calius]

I have been in and out on this after seeing the footage, but I still think it looks impressive & will play well.

My example for those who are complaining about arcady looking play (I for one agree) .. is think about it more. Make an avi of GR1 in open area situation crawling around stealthly ... edit it down to 11 mins or whatever & play it back.

Then send it to someone with an "xbox" and say "get this, its wicked military game" ... they will see the footage and probably not buy it.

So Im thinking more along the lines of 1: its a test level for getting used to controls 2: its run through fast to show the game off "generaly" 3: anyone notice the blatant positioning when rifleman shoots across that gereator box where the cans are sat on top? - Well thats so abviously to show the "object -physics" and is very staged, so Im thinking much more on the lines that this footage isnt half of how the game runs in total & as we keep saying its "xbox" & is just a fluffy pre hype overview to get you into it.

Im into the Raven Shield style quick commands they were always great and I always thought "wouldnt they be good in gr" when I got raven shield.

Theres alot more voice chatter in that 11 mins which is a bit cheesy but Improves on GR1 with hardly any so ... i was firstly put off, but have stepped back to look at the bigger picture and Im still interested in gr2 as I was when I learned it was coming out.

I think someone posted in another thread "im not going to buy it!" after watching some small 11min demo "xbox" footage ... now thats just silly.

I am an ardcore GR mentalist from day 1, but im willing to except changes not similar to gr1 becuase otherwise you end up being like a pensioner who is so stuck in there ways that they dont want "any change" ... and as regards wanting the game to be realistic, some people need there views to be switched that way too.

Lets just wait for PC info & also (just a side note) - the game to be finished!

[babydave]

ROFL @ Stalker im with you buddy, nightmare isnt even the word to describe this game if this is what the pc version is like.

I dont care what anyone says about a medic what happened in that demo was disgraceful,anything that resembles a tactical shooter DOES NOT have medics reviving people to full health, and that is what happened plain and simple.

I think they have lost the tactical part of GR and are going to compete with SOCOM. Goddam consoles,if you want a tactical shooter you should buy a pc and play it on that, thats where those types of games thrive. I have a PS2 and Gamecube and they have their place but they are for arcade shooters only not games like rainbow6,or the real rainbow6 anyway,as RVS wasnt worthy of being called R6.

Damn it we had that big wish list and now im left,with a tear in my eye hoping, just hoping that GR2 even resembles GR1.

RSE dont do it

Plus points tho, the graphics were nice,physics were a huge step up,nicer sounds, destrucatble scenerey (in places). But all in all that just didnt look like GR1 or any real tom clancy game,that is an arcade game not a tactical game, even the little ammo counter in the corner of the screen was arcade style.

[Brainman2k]

even the little ammo counter in the corner of the screen was arcade style.

if you'd seen early shots of gr1 you'd know that they changed the onscreen-menu drastically. the little counter seems to me like a "placeholder", because they haven't come up with the final solution for this.

i watched the video a couple of times now and what i can't say is, that it doesn't look like gr!

So Im thinking more along the lines of 1: its a test level for getting used to controls 2: its run through fast to show the game off "generaly" 3: anyone notice the blatant positioning when rifleman shoots across that gereator box where the cans are sat on top? - Well thats so abviously to show the "object -physics" and is very staged, so Im thinking much more on the lines that this footage isnt half of how the game runs in total & as we keep saying its "xbox" & is just a fluffy pre hype overview to get you into it.

i agree with that. it looked silly to me the fisrt time i saw the video, but now i think the same way as calius.

Im into the Raven Shield style quick commands they were always great and I always thought "wouldnt they be good in gr" when I got raven shield.

- The medic is sensible if used right

things like the medic can be balanced. it wasn't a real medic anyway. any soldier can give first-aid to an other soldier, so if it would be reduced to first-aid, then it'll be fun to play. i.e. patching up, stopping the bleeding, and so on. no man gets left behind....remember?

finally i have still faith in rse that they will come up with a great game after all. but like i said....i hope the do not make the same mistake as iply did....

[Tortfeaser]

Sorry to be the bearer of all this bad news for the tact and realism fans (me included). But keep in mind the RSE programmer, David Hamm, mentioned way back when Island Thunder was released that the PC team and the Console team were headed in two different directions.

Hey snowman, I got a question....And this has just been nawing at me....When you saw the snipers ingame..Did they have ghillie suits or anything? Cuz from what ive seen of the GR2 characters (and it's been limited, so thi is just an assumption), they didnt look very "militaryish", liek the guys in the first GR did...And if the snipers dont have ghillie suits...I'm really not sure I wanna buy it.

Loot: It looks like the artists have gone for a different look for the snipers, which they now call marksmen. No guillie suits.

The one marksman that was playable was Alicia Diaz. She was kitted out in woodland BDUs, body armor, olive drab Camelbak hydration system, baseball cap, and Oakley wraparounds.

You've already seen Mike Kim, the other marksman, in similar dress but with a boonie hat with scrim.

There are some really cool new features in it. I personaly liked the look of taking out that tower. & the general phisics/graphics & enviroment seemed a big improvement but..... I have some big worries.  here's a couple of questions to put me at ease.

1) The guy that was healed was he completely mended or just patched up enough to fight on with a gimpy.

2) Was the map size really as small as it appeared in the mpeg.

3) how much kit could they take & was all of this optional.

1)He looked completely healed to me. I didn't notice a limp of any kind.

2)Yes, this particular map seems confined in some spots. Most of the playable area was within the airfield confines. No access to the surrounding area outside the fences

3)Kits were defined by the soldier you chose in pre-mission (Markman/Sniper, Rifleman, Gunner, Grenadier?); usually four weapons: a primary weapon, a secondary, AT-4, and grenades. Although in the demo there was a lot of functionality missing. For instance only the rifleman character and his weapons were playable.

Questions:

How does kit selection work?

Is the point and click orders system like the upcoming Brothers in Arms (which looks fantastic BTW)?

How many people on the team?

How to select them?

Kits were assigned to soldier class as mentioned above.

I haven't seen BiA system yet, but what you did was hold down the "Y" buttton and choose one of four directions on a sliced-pie menu (like Raven Shield).

4 players all in one fireteam.

Soldier selection functionality wasn't implemented yet from what I could tell.

Actually, using "designated marksmen" is based more on reality than you might think. When we deployed to afghanistan there simply were not enough snipers to cover the large ranges encountered, with the result that a number of M-14s were resurrected with scopes, and distributed one per squad. The designated marksman did not have sniper training per se, but the increased numbers allowed squads to have a greater range and lethality than if they just used 5.56 rounds. Designated marskmen did not wear ghillie suits.

[Chems]

Physics sound good, have to see more till I decide.

Nice report Snowman, good job good memory you got.

[blakarion.]

Ummm - lots to digest, and must reel in my upset at the 11min Demo.

But guys, a few points

1) It was for E3 : a slow "tactical" game would be ignored - they do have to market GR2 to other people that us

2) If we dont have new stuff put in the games, it will stagnate and get left behind

3) It was only a BETA version, lets see how it develops. There's plenty of games shown at E3 that look different when they come out.

4) This is a console version - not known for there "thinking" games, the PC version are usually geared towards the less "arcade" type game (not all thou, even Farcry has stealth bits)

Anyway - November is a long way away yet, lets wait n see

[whoa182]

I dont care what anyone says about a medic what happened in that demo was disgraceful,anything that resembles a tactical shooter DOES NOT have medics reviving people to full health, and that is what happened plain and simple.

how do you know that he was completely healed? I think your not looking at the big picture of a medics role, he is to keep players in the game ( in the campaign ) Control bleeding and things. Medics are used in real life all the time to keep soldiers in the fight as long as possible and to save their life.

The guy that got hit. how do u know where he got hit. it might of been a scrape or got shot in the leg.

Like america's army... it dont magicly give them full health! it stops them from getting worse and dying !

or is that to much to understand

Edited May 13, 2004 by whoa182