Noob Modder Question

[Dai-San 0]

After reading a few of these posts I gotta ask this question just to make sure I don't step on anyones toes.

I have been playing GR on and off since it's release but have never really got into the 'Scene' as it were.

Recently after playing a lot I thought "Hey, I'll give this modding lark a go" and fired up IGOR, (OMG )

I've received no end of help and advice from the members of this forum and couldn't have done any of my mission mods without it and no doubt will still be posting for help for years to come, or at least till people get bored of my questions and ban me from the forum

Anyway, I'm waffling now so will get to the point.

As someone new to the scene would it not be a good idea to post up some guidlines to just what is and what is not acceptable to use. See my problem is this. MOD's, Mission's, Weapon's, Skin's and Map's are freely available from so many sources that as a beginner it is hard to know just what is Acceptable to use and what isn't.

I will explain with an example.

My first attempt at a mission mod I thought I would start off with a smallish map, with just a couple of simple demo objectives, easy I thought .

After downloading the tutorials etc I was still pulling my hair out and found this forum and posted up some questions I had. I had a great response and finally managed to complete this simple mission. It wasn't perfect, I had probably made loads of errors in the script ie doing things the hard way or the long way round etc, but it was mine, I had done it and was proud

I asked one of the people who had given me some help with my questions if they would look over it for some constructive criticism and they said sure.

After posting a link up i got a PM from them saying that as I had used a SOAF's map and also said they would need DA4.9 active to play it (Which I dont think you needed but it was active while I made it so I wasnt sure) they couldn't test it.

I replied back via PM saying I didn't realise that there was a problem with any of this but have never received a reply.

The SOAF maps I downloaded from a major GR site as well as DA4.9 so not being active in the GR forum community I was unaware of any issues concerning these.

What I am saying is this, after reading the Dynacomp thread and several others I'm now totally confused as to what I can and cant use to do my missions. Chems has kindly said I can use his SWAT mod for my player characters, and even gone so far as to say he will make me some handheld items (Huge Kudos m8) and someone else has sent me some men in suits actors for my opfor.

All i'm after is a few guidelines, I DO NOT want this thread to turn into a DA or Dynacomp bashing thread, or a flame war, just give a new potential modder a few pointers or i'm afraid i'm just gonna give up on this whole thing and just go back to playing instead.

[dekela 0]

ok, if you intend to use some one else's work, GET THEIR PERMISSION. most modders are ok with it if you ask first. as for DA.4.9 or what ever, most people here don't support it. when doing mission's in igor, only activate mp1, mp2 and your mod so you don't get a reference to another one you don't want

cheers......

[cobaka 0]

The SOAF (Sum of all Fears) maps were ported from the game that came out with the movie. It is alright to use them (AFAIK) but you must own the SOAF game to legally use the maps in GR.

I don't know of anyone here who would mind if you used their stuff as long as you ask FIRST and give them their due credit.

[blakarion. 0]

I believe four of he SOAF maps are actually OK to use with GR (SOAF mappack 2 and Prison I believe where released onto GR) without any hassle. The others, although avail can ONLY be used IF you own SOAF as well as GR.

[Dai-San 0]

Hmmm, see already we have some confusion about the SOAF maps and that then raises the issue of distributing a MOD.

I do a complete MOD using a SOAF map that I own a copy of, IF I then release this MOD and people download it and use it without owning the SOAF game am I then encouraging people to use dodgy software?

Also, If someone posts up a skin/weapon pack etc for free download in these forums then is it really necessary to contact them?

I'm not saying I wouldn't attempt to (I have and will continue to) but for me personally, if I released something that someone wanted to use (which is a long way off if my pathetic efforts dont improve drastically ) then I personally would be delighted if they did ask me but wouldn't take offence if they didn't.

I fully understand that this would in no way apply to direct plaigarism (ripping a particular mission out of a mod) and passing it off as your own, or in the case of a major MOD such as Dynacomp or BoB etc. I'm just talking about using a weapon or skin that has been released on the forum.

[cobaka 0]

I believe (but I'm not certain) that as part of the license agreement allowing us to create mods, they MUST be free (since we are using Ubisoft/RSE software we cannot profit from their work), but the fact that a mod is available for free does not mean the creator does not give up copyright ownership of the original textures and geometry he creates.

[Dai-San 0]

This is where it gets a bit sticky though isn't it, unless you include a EULA with everything you post up etc then technically using it isnt an infringement.

Believe me I'm not trying to condone theft or imply people shouldn't ask, I'm just trying to get some guidlines to work by so I dont step on anyones toes as I've already on numerous occassions tried contacting several people regarding using their skins/weapons and have had no reply from most of them.

Unfortunately atm i'm only doing mission modding and cant build my own maps and skins etc. If I ever actually learn this skill as well then the whole issue becomes mute

Thanks all for your input and hopefully soon (when I feel my efforts are up to it) you can all have a look at my work.

[Rebar 0]

My advice is, since you're just starting out on a pretty steep learning curve, is to just work with what GR, DS, and IT gives you. Which is plenty.

Once you're comfortable with it, then you can start branching out to incorporating other people's work. But you must make every effort to contact and get permission when you do so. "Technically" won't get you anywhere around here, the amount of work to make a skin or a map is huge, just grabbing what you want without asking permission will get a lot of folks steamed, and rightly so.

[sleeper 0]

Where is this information that all of these SOAF maps mentioned are ok to use? The only one I have ever been aware of is the Prison map, the case being that it is in fact the same map that comprises the demo version of SOAF and therefore already distributed freely. All other SOAF maps are off limits according to all the sources I am aware of. In order to use them legally you must own the game itself.

[Parabellum 12]

Here's Ubi's policy on using their material: If it shipped on their CD, you can't distribute it. You are entitled to use SOAF missions for GR, provided you own both games, but you should not distribute those missions, as it would encourage software piracy. Under no circumstances should you distribute SOAF maps, not even the prison. I even got into a bit of trouble for releasing the SOAF weapons as a mod for Ghost Recon, so I would avoid that, if I were you. According to a statement made by John Sonedecker some time ago, even the prison map from SOAF cannot be distributed. Although it is a tremendous loss to see the SOAF material go to waste, the best policy is to leave it alone.

As far as using other modders' material goes, the rule followed by most guys is simple: Ask first. Most people don't mind, as long as you ask first. It's just common courtesy. Granted, common courtesy really isn't all that common, but you get the idea. Offend the modders enough, and they'll quit making new material, and then there will be nothing for the re-modders to work with.

Edited February 27, 2004 by Parabellum

[sctses 0]

does no easy day use a map from sum of all fears?

[sleeper 0]

Thank you Para for setting the record straight. I was mistaken about the Prison map if that is the case. I had heard otherwise.

Yes, No Easy Day contains(not just uses, contains them as part of the mod download) 2 SOAF maps. Figure that one out.

It is also sad about the SOAF maps because I believe many of them to be some of the best maps following the GR/SOAF format. I think this game was overlooked by a great number of people and the maps really are fantastic and in my opinion rival many of the Ravenshield maps as far as detail put into them.

Edited February 27, 2004 by sleeper

[Parabellum 12]

I agree that the SOAF maps are some of the best out there. That's why it's a shame to see them go to waste. But there's nothing we can do about it.

[blakarion. 0]

Ah - thanx Para for putting me straight - advice I had recieved off other Modders and threads indicated SOAF MapPack/Prison where OK to use

My apologies if this is not the case, and I'll go and scrap the Mod Im 1/2 way through scripting - DOHH !!!!

[sctses 0]

Yes, No Easy Day contains(not just uses, contains them as part of the mod download) 2 SOAF maps. Figure that one out.

It 's illegal to distribute the SOAF maps So does that mean if you download NO EASY DAY you support mod thieve?

[supasniper 0]

i'm assuming here that DTD contacted RSE/UBI and asked as a modding team of their caliber would never steal work.

also as a side point it's a shame SOAF wasn't released as a third add on for GR instead of a stand a lone game but alas this isn't the case so i'll just go back to my corner

[Orbarth 0]

When the Summer Of All Fear maps were released for GR by an user on internet , i tried them to see how they could be played in Ghost Recon environment.

Frankly despite the map quality , they played very badly in GR , mostly because of their CQB nature while they are great inside SOAF (i have this SOAF game fortunately, and the maps fits and are played perfectly in SOAF).

SOAF AI is very good in those SOAF maps , while the GR AI had difficulty to give an interest for the user in missions set up in those specific maps.

If i remember well , there is now an approved utility to play the SOAF maps in GR as it requires you to have SOAF.

It was made after the SOAF map packs were ubi-banned for obvious and legitimate reasons.

[sctses 0]

Under no circumstances should you distribute SOAF maps, not even the prison. I even got into a bit of trouble for releasing the SOAF weapons as a mod for Ghost Recon, so I would avoid that, if I were you.

hey supasniper read this. So if ubi says under no circumstances should you distribute SOAF maps That means stolen work!