Jex Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Did/does anyone else find GR lacking in it's ability to issue orders? If a GR2 is planned maybe we can all add something here and then send out an email to ubi/red storm of our wants and wishes. One of my main gripes about GR is that my guys just either won't stay put or won't move up. If I want to crawl up to a position with a fireteam of 3 for instance, I find my guys a couple of meters back - as they should be for a wedge formation. But if I want all 3 to be level (or inline) with my section leader, I have to switch to each guy in turn and make them crawl up (which then in most cases causes the leader to turn around and come crawling back - AAARRGGGHHH!!!). The other thing is I don't want my damn men to kneel when I leave them prone. But sometimes I get it where, in a 2 man team, that 1 is kneeling and the other prone. U switch to the other team member and make him go prone but the 1st guy kneels, so u switch back to him and (ad infinitum......). Or the other thing is they come under fire and they kneel (to shoot back, make themselves a bigger target , - WHAT????) Anyway unless i'm seriously missing something here i'd like some changes if we're to see a gr2. New Orders HOLD POSITION - Means what it says. they stay where they are and in what stance they are no matter what (though u can individually move them by going to that member) FIND COVER - I've read references to this being a command but can't find it. Means they find the nearest available cover. HOLD UP - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mik Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 try having the other team (AI team) on the recon ROE (or what ever it's called when you have the little minus symbol activated) I find they're alot more sensetive to there surroundings ie; they will lay down if in a contact and they won't run to their next pos. they'll crouch n' walk slowly, watching out for enemy. When there is a major contact; you set the ROE to (+) and they'll give em' the good news! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jex Posted February 11, 2003 Author Share Posted February 11, 2003 DAMN IT DAMN IT DAMN IT!!!! I HIT THE DAMN POST BUTTON!!! Ok from where I left off... HOLD UP - The rest of the members of your firesquad stop until u give the order to move up. This allows the selected member to move up and check things out whilst the other two sit back and cvr u. ON ME - moves your guys up to you in the formation you have currently chosen. FORMATIONS. Lets have some different formations as well INLINE VEE and WEDGE. Just a few additions imo would have made so much more difference and turned a great game into a classic. I don't wanna slate GR as it is a great game though I feel the odering system could have been more thought out. Hopefully #2 will sort that out. Apologies if this subject has already been brought up - thats the trouble with being a newcomer. Anyway i had my shout - anyone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backshooter Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 (edited) I think you're overlooking a couple of things in the way the commands work, but perhaps somewone else will spell it out for you because it's been hashed over plenty of times before in here. I like the current command set on the whole, but if it could be applied to individual soldiers rather than just to squads, it would be better. Same applies to pathing on the command map. If the friendly AI could be tweaked so it is more context aware, that would be an improvement, e.g. no sense having your support guys try to cover your rear when you are at the map perimeter, against a wall etc. Also, don't let them shoot at enemies who they can't even see, and are behind impenetrable barriers. The thing I hate the most are enemies who passively camp inside rooms while you stroll in and shoot their mates, they just stand there looking the other way, waiting for their bullet. Gawdarnit give them a sense of hearing! They can at least hear you walking up to them? Guns go off? Bodies falling over? Edited February 11, 2003 by backshooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jex Posted February 11, 2003 Author Share Posted February 11, 2003 yeah and from the guys who made rogue spear u'd think they'd make the tango's a bit more realistic. It is annoying to me that sort of bad programming because I like my games to be as realistic as possible. But it's still a damn good game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.ronin Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 (edited) I like the current command set on the whole, but if it could be applied to individual soldiers rather than just to squads, it would be better. or at least let us issue roe to specific squads with shortcut keys. Edited February 11, 2003 by the.ronin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogre_h Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 I'd like to see the ability to re-assign squad members in battle. So if team B needed a demo specialist from Team C, you could just attach him to B and move on. How many times has your scout team been in the perfect position to waste the armor, but had to wait for the missle team to come from the other side of the map? The other thing I'd like to see in GR2 is more kit slots (if they keep the kit format). I want a pistol along with my M4/M203 SOPMOD! I also think that we should be able to add a large number of specialists characters, instead of being limited to 12. Maybe even extra standard soldiers. There are so many good skins and models out there, its a real pain trying to get various skins together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splaster Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 A few things that i would like to see in the second version. One, the ability to have a primary, secondary, and grenades. Use the 4 version box the rainbow six had, i don't know who did the research into gr orginal kit boxes, but limiting you to a choice of a pistol or grenade is just dumb. Second, i agree, you need to have the ability to control your fire team better. the ability to have a stright line formation, a V formation would help. Third, the AI for the bad guys is getting better, how about using it you our computer controlled fire teams, i feel that as soon as i jump to another team, that first teams is lost. it would make the game feel more real and less lone wolf in a multipayer setting if the ai could be trusted to carry out a mission or even a defend order. Lastly, most sf don't where helmets into the woods, unless they have just jumped out of an airplane. Fix the uniforms to what is actually done in real life. Also, for missions make them variable, some parts you have to recon, some parts ambush, some part defend. that would make them more intresting, make the murphy factor come into play, change the mission half way into the screen, add some unknown factors, bad intelligence. That would make people have to think on their feet, not memorize when all the baddies are on the map and snipe them from a distance. Splaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobblers Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 I'd like to see the ability to re-assign squad members in battle. So if team B needed a demo specialist from Team C, you could just attach him to B and move on. How many times has your scout team been in the perfect position to waste the armor, but had to wait for the missle team to come from the other side of the map? I with u there m8ty. I couldn't agree more. It would be useful for many reasons. GR2 should be a great game if they listen to the users more than not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WytchDokta Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 I would like to see Redstorm (or Ubi, or whoever else is making it) use the Unreal 2 engine for GR2, although most of you would disagree. I don't see the problem with the Unreal 2 engine. Also, it's much easier to make mods using the Unreal 2 engine "Unreal Editor". You can make entire new characters. You name it, you can mod it (well nearly) using Unreal Ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogre_h Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 I think Redstorm/Ubi has a pretty good track record when it comes to listening to user input. Look at the whole Limping patch deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobblers Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 - .:Nightmare:.,Feb 11 2003, 23:43 ] I would like to see Redstorm (or Ubi, or whoever else is making it) use the Unreal 2 engine for GR2, although most of you would disagree. I don't see the problem with the Unreal 2 engine. Also, it's much easier to make mods using the Unreal 2 engine "Unreal Editor". You can make entire new characters. You name it, you can mod it (well nearly) using Unreal Ed. Any chance of it being able to be programmed to stop cheaters a little easier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WytchDokta Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Probably. Another reason why they should use the Unreal 2 engine: the Ghost Recon engine doesn't support fire (or volumetric smoke) effects. At least the Unreal 2 engine does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budgie Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 In the old Seal Team you could set formations. Wedge, line, column and diamond. That was a good game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Shield Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 Soldiers need to use the Anti-tank weapons by themselves, you should also be able to order a soldier to place a claymore of throw a nade in a certain area. Maybe some vehicles a la Operation Flashpoint would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moakes2783 Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 I think what we all really want is Ghost Recon environments and gameplay with Raven Shield kit options and camo selection. Also, I think enemy AI needs to be changed a bit. I cannot stomach being killed because I snipe one tango from 150 meters and his other buddies just stand up (like their buddy didnt just get shot in the head by somebody they shouldnt be able to see) and shoot single, precision shots (like I'm an old soup can on their picket fence). If this tactic is accurate, I expect this sort of discipline from trained SF groups, but not from locally recruited rebels living off a loaf of bread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mik Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 I absolutly agree with the above, I know there are all sorts of realism mods out there, but mod or no mod, the AI could (well, I should say I'd like it to be) improved in general. I'd like it if it were more 'camo-sensitive' as well; as in if you're sniping and you're right up in shrubs or whatever, I rekon it should be virtually impossible for enemy to see (let alone shoot at) you untill they're right ontop of you (provided you've stoped firing of course) I realise there is the 'stealth' points to earn but still, I've heard those ghilli suits are pretty bloody effective (in real life) I also agree with Raven in regards to AI team members using the AT weapons a little more. I have (only 2 or 3 times) seen an AI soldier let a rocket loose and when it happens it's awsome! I just stood there in mid battle in awe, but happening more often would be cool. And claymores also (this could be dangerous though!! For freindlies that is) But! if there was a change made so that your or another fire team could maybe hear enemies approaching (I know that they do already say things like "they're near" etc) but maybe having them say "sounds like several enemy approaching from the east" or something, these could be prime claymore moments! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the-dutchman Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 If I want to crawl up to a position with a fireteam of 3 for instance, I find my guys a couple of meters back - as they should be for a wedge formation. But if I want all 3 to be level (or inline) with my section leader, I have to switch to each guy in turn and make them crawl up (which then in most cases causes the leader to turn around and come crawling back - AAARRGGGHHH!!!). @jex : IMHO this is the most frustration thing in the game... hope this can be fixed in GR2... If this tactic is accurate, I expect this sort of discipline from trained SF groups, but not from locally recruited rebels living off a loaf of bread. @moakes2783 : why not.. IMHO first the game is more fun if u get opponents that are just as good as u... or else play on easy... and secondly i don't think u've to be a trained SF member to be a good gunman... regardz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jex Posted February 12, 2003 Author Share Posted February 12, 2003 Some excellent ideas here. Maybe the mods can put an email together with the ideas here and send it to RSE? Please? lol I installed IT last night and played the 1st 2 missions and made a discovery in the use of your men. Only when you issue the halt command will they seek cover though this can be clumsy if you have a firfight going on and you need to issue orders quickly to your squad. Hotkeys would have made much more sense. Maybe this is made more apparent in IT because the map i was playing on has a lot of trees for them to hide behind (and I was making sure they always kept in the trees). Unfortunately this didn't stop my man (with a shooting skill of 6) let 2 tangos walk by him and not shoot them?!? On a last note about the AI - even though it doesn't really work out that realistically - playing on veteran level last night on gr's server we all got our arses kicked. So does it really need to be harder? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WytchDokta Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 I'd like to see new insertations. Like paradrop for example. So something like the begining of mission one on MOH:AA - Spearhed. Also, I'd like to see the ability to take a bigger squad into the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moakes2783 Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 @moakes2783 : why not.. IMHO first the game is more fun if u get opponents that are just as good as u... or else play on easy... and secondly i don't think u've to be a trained SF member to be a good gunman... To The-dutchman: The challenge of the game is not what I'm contesting, it's true-to-life aspects. The scenario I explained above is simply counter-intuitive, regardless of whether they're SF soldiers or not. A sniper can pin down a whole platoon because of his concelment and accuracy. I'll tell you this much, if I were patrolling through the woods and my buddy just dropped to the floor with his face in a thousand pieces, my first reaction would not be to stand up and take single, amazingly accurate shots (considering that you're standing and under stress due to adrenaline and fear) at an enemy I can't (or shouldn't) be able to see. These are just play-balance issues I have. Maybe if my team members weren't so bloody useless, it woudn't frustrate me so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pripyat Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 along the lines of what moakes said...in close quarters, before any shooting has taken place, it should take the AI at least a fraction of a second (if not more) to identify you has a hostile...it drives me bonkers when the AI shoots the first thing it sees (for example when you open a door), with amazing accuracy, when it could very well be his buddy dropping by to give him a coffee.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogre_h Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 It sounds like we want the Kit flexibility and graphics of Ravenshield, the AI from GR (As far as enemy AIs it has one of the best) the vehicles from OFP, and the babes from GTA3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jex Posted February 12, 2003 Author Share Posted February 12, 2003 (edited) Just to add to this I've just been playing mission 3 in IT. I was switching between my guys and then I find one of them standing up, his x-hairs aimed at the head of a tango and the tango was aiming back at him... Yet nobody shot. Until I took control that is. After I killed him I used the bins to get the range - 30.66M with no cover in between. Then my entire Charlie and Bravo section ended up getting wasted because they'd take cover behind a tree but on the wrong side or something equally as stupid. I've tried running the scenario 5 times from my save point, different tactics for each load but they still get wasted and can't seem to fire back at the enemy firing at them. I haven't tried the 'spray and prey' command yet as they should be able to shoot these guys - they're special forces with 5-6 accuracy skill and a 4-5 concealment! The more I play this game the more it seems that RSE/Ubi just botched the AI completely. Do I have to mod some files to bump up their stats until they start behaving like real soldiers. It's frustrating because if I spend the time carefully advancing my men, covering each other, and then get them into positions of vantage, I don't expect them to all get shot by a tango who advances to the hill brow with the only visible part of him being his forehead!! If I just ran in willy-nilly then fair enough they should be killed because thats just bad tactics. poooooo Edited February 12, 2003 by Jex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WytchDokta Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 It sounds like we want the Kit flexibility and graphics of Ravenshield, the AI from GR (As far as enemy AIs it has one of the best) the vehicles from OFP, and the babes from GTA3 The graphics of Ravenshield eh? You do realise that Raven Shield uses the Unreal 2 engine. Nobody wants Redstorm/Ubi to use the Unreal 2 engine for GR2 for some reason. I dunno why - I would prefer it if they did use the Unreal2 enigine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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