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Advanced Sniper System


Chems
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Id like to see wind in GR2, humidity etc, and an effective observer sniper class. Id like to have to calculate wind etc and change the windage on my scope before taking a shot. Would make good sniper that much rarer. From my little knowledge of sniping Im pretty sure you cant just lay down and take a 300m shot just like that.

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I agree. Sniper's should have to calculate windage and distance for really accurate shots. I assume GR 2 will be expanding on the average viewing range, so that would help balance things out for the closer-in specialists. I think sniper's should be made so that their use requires a lot more patience and so that their effect is much less pick-'em-off-from-a-distance" and more "get-the-important-shots".

Also, I hope to see better control of your weapon's position, including independent head-swivel on the neck. When you're finding cover behind a bush it sucks to have to stick your gun barrel way out just to peak through or left and right.

The tough part, of course, is to expand the depth of movement and fire possibilities while still making it easy enough to get the basics done.

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I remeber the one thing they allway said about GR was that it was maybe to basic. I dont see why we should make it more accesible for 5 year olds, it should be hardcore like Falcon 4.0 was for flighsims. I think that sniping in GR isnt really that big a deal. I can kit someone at maxium range with my SA80 and still have the option to return suppressing fire were as someone with a m24 can hit the person as well, but not return suppressing fire. It needs to be made special. I could be the games most crowning feature. :yes:

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Well if people don't have 20x zoom on a assault rifle you really wouldn't have to worry about the sniper being worthless. If they just cut out the zoom on the assault rifles that would make the sniper more important. If they increased the viewing distance for the enemies that would make everyone have to be a little more stealthy.

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My view on this that the soldier you are commanding is an expert at what he does. (The skill points make him more or less expert).

The aiming reticule (pipper) is showing where he will put the bullet when you pull the trigger all calculations already being done by him. So in short I like it as it is. Frags are different as it's up to the player to aim correctly and time the throw to make them accurate. Why it's that way is beyond me...

Moving while zoomed is realistic as the pipper expands to show that the bullet pattern will spread while moving and that a shot at that point will go anywhere. The available speed while zoomed should be slower though.

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The sniping in GR2 should be made to reflect the incredible range advantage of the sniper rifles. A 5.56 round is only effective out to 2-300 yards, while military snipers often take head shots at 500+ yds. The fog in the game severly limits the effectiveness of sniping, and frankly Im sick of having to close to withing 200 yds just to see what the hell Im shooting at :angry:

Also, the larger rifles should only be able to be fired from the prone position. Even the biggest marine DI can't fire an M82 from standing-the recoil is just too great. There's a reason for the bipods, friends!

Also, having scope wobble is already a factor in other games, like BF 1942. The sniper rifles are not rock steady like they are in GR. There should be a mode for the bipods on the rifles to make them steadier, just like in reality. :yes:

There is also the question of bullet flight time. Some rounds, like the 7.62x51, are faster than others, like, say, a .50 cal.(yes, its true. a .308 winchester round is faster than the mighty Browning .50!). There should be more of an issue with lead. As it is, I can put the scope on a tango, pull the trigger, and even if he's running full tilt, he'll drop.

Edited by snowpilot
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Ive been thinking about it some more and talking to mcnamee about it. Had a look at some wep stats. I looked up the SA80s accuracy, and apperantly its effective up to 400m. GR maps are 400 so that would mean no need for snipers. So then based on that GR2s maps need to be a lot bigger. That then would allow snipers to be able to engage targets at over 1500m with out any possibility of return fire. 1500m would be near the max for the best snipers. But then think of the calculations that would be needed to get a bullet that far on target, the wind could vary 3 times on the way. So id like to see real wind effects, flight sims have them why cant gr. This could effect smoke,tree tops grass flags so that you can calculate the wind. Then of course there would be the drop and time it takes to get to the target. that needs to be better shown, GR does have speed and drop of the bullet but it makes little diffrence. Then finally, id like to see a breathing system implementated, snipers breath in then out a little then hold then shoot. Id like to see that implementated, with maybe a command to hold the breath. Then finally, the last part of the perfect sniper system would be camo, id like to see the ablity for you to become one with the land, instead of hiding behind a poly flat bush. Id like to see more effective guille with the colour and texture of your suit changing depending on the land. So say you were in a field of dried grass, you could have a command to break bits off and blend in. this might be too much to ask. That would be it then, the game would require really skill and knowledge to be a sniper, not anyone could jump in. It would be a expert field of skills just like reality a sniper on a team 1000 meters away scaring the enemy, or other MP players not to move from there cover as your team takes umm out. It would be a whole new perspective to the game that i personally want to see. So RSE, ive put carful thought into this, its mostly an exercise in maths and it could easily be the clincher to keep GR fans away from Soldner. :thumbsup:

Edit, I forgot about the 50cal and .338 laupa rounds and stuff, this could be effectivly used against armour or helicopters meaning that a sniper could also do the job of demolitions, shooting out the prisms of a tank so the assulaters can get in and do the kill.

Edited by Chems
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there is approximately 4" of a rise in the round after 25m out to about 200m,that is why you boresight,or set your sights at 25 m's approx!

in strong winds there 's no effect on the round(high velocity)under 200m,it is ranges greater than that that you have to take wind and elevation into consideration!.

Being a sniper is not just about being a good shot,it's more about being outstanding in fieldcraft!

It would be impossible to take these effects into consideration,as what a sniper does is not aim off,but adjusts his scope accordingly,have you never heard a sniper team say things like 4 clicks left for wind @ 20?

Edited by Argyll
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not sure what you mean, but I do know that you can change the amount of of sway on the trees depending on how much rain you say there is. As for it effecting your bullets, i dont think it does. Not in the gun file if IIRC. Wouldnt mind hearing 300mags ideas thoughts, I know he used to spend a lot of time on the 300 yard range.

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ahhh.... it appears that Chems has also com to realise that there needs to be and RPG/FPS

and how is that bad? lol

but really, if vehicles were in GR....then, you would be in danger....if you could drive cars, jeeps (not tanks ghosts arnt trained) and other things then... it would be cooler, see.... if the maps in GR2  are VERY VERY large, then you would need evac... I believe that the single player campain (or part of it) should be wholly MP coop (some single player lol), that way on LARGE *VERY LARGE* maps you could get inserted and extracted by REAL human piolts. They should make you choose to be, a specilty and undergo training..., like piolt, sniper, demo, that kind of thing... that way you have to interact (with real people) in order to complete the mission....and if you kill a friendly..thn lol...you should get court martishled....that way there wont be any repeat TK'rs....lol....and have the game know when there is a cheater...it clocks your speed and height above ground, and tracks the rounds that should be hitting you and time it takes your cross hairs to come together...so that in effect it would be impossable to cheat...heheh.... and make modding very easy...like give make the game Gmax enabled!! now that is a dream...if the game makers cant do the obove then...heh.,...I guess ill have to be one..... :shifty: 

I would explain the rest of my ideas, but then I would be explaining my Idea for a great game. there is a lot of varieables to explain! if you realy wan to know then contact me.
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A man who could fire a 12 gauge shotgun standing could fire a .50cal too. (the recoils are really close) His only problem would be holding a 40lb gun stable for long shots.

What I want to see are larger maps(like 2000mx2000m) with unlimited sight(at least by fog, you can restrict the distance with trees etc) and hills somewhere so you can see for those long range shots(if you ever saw someone standing still/moving rather slowly long enough to aim, shoot and the bullet to travel)

Edited by nobluaqui
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there's bullet drop in GR?...must be really little...i've never noticed it..maybe some1 can scale down everything in GR to make the map seem a bit bigger. Now if only there was a way to remove ground shake effect...then you could add in bullet time and bullet drop

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I don't pretend to know everything about real-life sniping, but what little information I do have leads me to believe that a realistic simulation of the sniper's role would be boooooooooooring. Oh, sure, dropping targets at 800 m from a concealed hide would be cool, but crawling, hiding and waiting for the other 99.9% of the time would not appeal to most gamers, even most hardcore Clancy fans. The role that "snipers" play in GR is for the most part just that of sharpshooter or designated marksman, making difficult shots at close to medium range (1-500 m). The only scenario in which "sniping" is used to its full potential in GR is with silenced, subsonic weapons which have maximum ranges (~300m) that fit within GR maps (but the SR25sd sucks @$$ in-game; same accuracy stats as the M16).

I'm not saying that there isn't a place for a hardcore sniping/long range shooting sim (some already exist), but to incorporate it into GR would require a lot of work and seriously increase system requirements (ever noticed how older machines chug through rain and fog maps in IT? Imagine the burden of constantly modeling wind, air density, etc. AND factoring it into trajectories for every shot taken. Add the expanded maps of 1,000, 000 sq. m. and you're in super-computer territory.) Also, the reward for RS/Ubisoft would be a negligeble (sp?) added appeal for the product in the gaming market.

In short, GR is cool. A GOOD sniping sim would also be cool to fewer people. But to combine the two would place daunting demands on both elements.

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I have had times on my sniper missions where the enemy has been within 10 feet of me on a patrol and never saw me. Now if that won't get you adrenaline pumping you are crazy. The big problem with most sniper missions is that is is impossible to have great snipers on the other side. I think GR2 should look into adding factors that change individual actors spotting distances. Like having binocs or a sniper rifle and even NVG's. But only when the actor is using them should he be able to see farther.

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