Subwoofers

[Crimson 0]

I've recently upgraded my trucks sound system to a Sony Xplod deck, and four 6.5" Rockford Fosgate speakers. For Christmas I'm thinking about asking for a sub or two. I was just wondering if anyone has any advice when it comes to subs.

[Major Maximum 0]

just make sure it doesn't blow a hole in your car.

[Crimson 0]

That doesn't exactly help. I want something that cranks up the bass, but not so much that you cant hear they lyrics of a song.

[Dan 0]

Well, to get the best from your sub you should get an amp. You coukd stick with Xplod all the way with sub and amp, but personally I dont like them. Good brands are pioneer and Alpine, but you get what you pay for. Good mid road brands are Clarion or Blaupunkt. Best advice is go to a few car stereo joints and ask the experts, and bargain, they should move on the price, especially if you buy sub and amp at the same time/place.

PS An amp also allows you to add more speakers or subs in the future

[Crimson 0]

I already have an amp. The speakers I mentioned are made by Pioneer.

[Dan 0]

hmmmm, best bet be pioneer subs then, cos speakers and subs kindas go hand in hand, thats if they dont try to take your Kidneys to pay for it

[Dark Ranger 0]

I retrofitted my Dakota with a new sound system 6 months ago. Decided on:

- Eclipse CD3412 Head Unit

- 6.5" Blaupankt (Two-Way) x2 Front Door Speakers

- 5x7" Blaupankt (Three-Way) x2 Rear Speakers

- 10" JL Audio W0 Series Subwoofer

- CrossFire Amplifier for Subwoofer(Bridged Mode)

Spent about a month tracking down the right components. Since I have the Single-Cab version Dakota, I didn't need 10 speakers and huge subwoofers. My thoughts on this were that I wanted to have a nice system that could crank, but not blow the doors off my truck and everybody else's vehicle too. I also didn't want to spend 2-Grand for my system.

I decided on Blaupunkt main speakers because I really liked their smooth response and texture. I've been in the audio industry for over 3 years, long enough to appriciate decent sound. Looked at other brands with higher power handling, increased frequency response, etc., running the speakers through some audio tests I burnt to a disk, along with a music album I knew well.

The subwoofer is a major component in a system too, as it can add "bottom" to the music being played. I took the same care researching subs before deciding on one that sounded the best for what I could afford. The W0 Series from JL Audio offered that in my opinion. Decent power handling and smooth freqency response. Because I did my research, I have no regrets on anything - I know I got the best system for what I could afford.

That being said, one of the first things to consider is what type of music you listen to most. This has an effect on the diameter of the subwoofer cone.

- 15" to 18" for Rap and most Hip-Hop

- 12" for Mainstream Rock and R&B

- 10" to 12" for Techno/Trance and most Rock

The reason is, alot of Rap music contains extremely low-end rolling, and low frequency notes. By choosing a larger-diameter cone, you can obtain optimal frequency response and produce those lower end notes. You will, however, not be able to get a fast "attack" or response time with larger-diameter cones as you will with smaller ones. The reason is mass. The more mass (Cone, Spider, Voicecoil, etc) there is in a speaker, the longer it takes for a speaker to produce any given tone. 15" Subwoofer cones have a huge area of air they must move, and thus trade off response time. You'll notice most Techno music has characteristic 1-2 or 1-2-3-4 feel to it. That kick drum punch needs a faster attack time to coincide properly with the music in time. You'll get a stronger "kick" with the smaller ones, versus the larger ones may take a few milliseconds longer to engage.

Another fact to consider is what type of cabnet(enclosure) your sub will be housed in. Remember that sound is produced by compressing and uncompressing (also known as rare-fraction) the air. Look at the cabnet housing. Sometimes they will be "ported"; a hole in the enclosure itself. This enables the cone to "breath" better. As the cone moves forward to compress the air, the open port allows air to be drawn in to support the cone from the backside. As the cone retracts toward its nominal position (toward the magnet), it pushes air out of the hole. Often times, you can get slightly higher output levels with this method, and also allows the speaker to operate at peak efficiency. Non-ported cabnets are fine too. I actually have one for my JL, simply because it would be difficult to place a cutout in my enclosure type. You'll still get respectable sound.

One of the things I see alot young people do is drive around with a booming sub, with everybody thinking that they have an awesome soundsystem. To me, a sub playing at 115db is not impressive. How does it sound at that level? Is it clipping? Distorting? How are thermal levels? If you want the largest "boom" on your block, go out and find the largest most powerful sub you can find, and stick it in your vehicle. That does absolutely nothing if it doesn't sound good. So, be sure to listen to your sub with something you know, and that will help you determine which one sounds best.

One quick note about power handling: When choosing an amplifier, try to get one as close to, and just a little over, your rated output for the subwoofer speaker. The reason for this is because if you try and push a speaker with an over-powered amplifier, you will risk blowing the speaker. If you try to push a speaker with an under-powered amplifier, you run the risk of blowing the amp, distorting the output, and blowing the speaker. Distortion is very very bad for any speaker, even at low volume levels. That underpowered amp you have is trying its best to send everything it has to that speaker, along with a bunch of distortion. It's the distortion, not the power capacity that will most likely blow the cone. Why? Sound waves are made up of smooth waves...distortion is not a smooth wave...it is a square wave.

Don't skimp on the amplifier. Be sure it can send clean and stable current to the speaker. Also, turn up the amplifier to maximum, without any music playing. Listen for how much noise is coming from the speaker. Less is better. Lots of noise suggests lower-quality components and circuitry.

Hope this makes some sense.

[Crimson 0]

Holy cow, thats exactly what I was looking for DR, thanks!

Now, my amp is 430 Watts. I dont really listen to one particular type of music. It's generally a 50-50 split between rock and rap. My main thing is I want some "bump", but not enough to crack my spray on bed lining. (Sarcasm)

Here's the page of subs Im looking at, as it is the same company that makes my speakers. Im really concidering the 10" and the 12". Im not sure if I want one or two, it all depends on what the sound quality is like when I get a chance to listen to a song or two.

How big of an amp do you recommend? If it makes a difference, I've already got a 430. Thanks for the help DR.

Also, to view my speakers, go here, and click on Full Range Speakers, then scroll down to the FRC4306 series of speakers.

Here's my deck if it helps any.

Edited October 4, 2003 by Crimson

[Dark Ranger 0]

What kind of amplifier are you using/going to use for the sub(s). You have a link to the product for more specs?

Based on what you posted, and your music tastes, I'd recommend a 12" driver. Not sure what kind of truck you have either, so we'd have to take that into account. For instance, my 10" sub is behind my bench seat, and there is no way a 12" would fit. You may be forced to use a 10", unless you want to shell out extra for a custom enclosure.

Technically, I'd say one sub is enough, with all that power. But it is up to you. 430Watts is alot of bass in a truck.

If that 430Watt amp is what you'll use, I'd then say look at subs around 400Watts or so.

My professional opinion would be:

FFS1224

or

RFP3212

or

RFP4112

or

RFP4212

Rockford Fosgate Subs

The last two don't have as many specs as the first two, but those 4 would be the ones I'd look at from RF. It also appears that the only difference between the 4112 and 4212 are that the 4112 has a 2-Ohm impedence, and the 4212 has a 4-Ohm impedence. Those two are going to be more expensive though, judging from the fancy appearence.

If I were buying for myself, I'd choose the FFS1224. The Poly/Plastic cone is of a higher quality than the paper. I'm hoping it costs less than the 4211/4212.

Be sure you listen to them before purchase - very important. Bring something you know well.

My $0.02

[Crimson 0]

What kind of amplifier are you using/going to use for the sub(s).

Im not sure. The amp I currently have was given to me by a family friend, and I didnt take notice of the name. It's hooked up to the speakers for the time being, so do you suggest that I get another amp just for a sub? Also, my truck is a 2000 Toyota Tundra.

[SealTeam6 0]

On a off-hand note, I remember reading a story in a magazine one day, can't remember what it was, about how these two guys wanted to convert their car into the world's finest portable stereo rig. So they bought the most powerful amps, the biggest speakers and subwoofers that they could buy and shoved it in this medium-sized car.

Now as driving down the road one day with the speakers pumpin and the bass crashing, one of the guys decided to open one of the windows that they had all closed.

BIG MISTAKE

The pressure that had been built up in the car due to the sound system caused all the air inside the car to escape including all the air in their lungs and round the body. This in a few seconds called DEATH by Asphyxia, which is loss of oxygen to the body system.

So please watch out.

[Dan 0]

hmmm, dont mean to offend Seal, but that doesnt seem possible. cars are full of air vents and holes etc, it would be hard to create that much pressure differenciation, anyway, to make it that bad, you gotta spend alot of money on gear. And the point of a big stereo is to go cruzin round with widows down annoying people

[Dark Ranger 0]

Check your mail.

[Schenkanator 0]

I'll just remind you that every two-fold increase in power only increases your sound intensitly level (not sound intensity, that doubles too - but is not percieved) by 3 dB.

Thus, while an 800 watt sub sounds like a good idea, and is more expensive than a 400 watter, you probably wouldn't really notice the difference. It will however use half as much power from your battery.

Also, be careful to go for RMS power ratings, not 'peak power', 'maximum spike', 'peak to peak', 'peak to peak squared', or some other rubbish made up by the manufacturer (eg. on the weekend I found one saying "800 watt perceived power ").

Better off spending your dough on a nice stereo unit.

[Dan 0]

Yeah, home stereo is better, but a nice one in a car is good.

@Schenkanator: U an Aussie boy right? You holden or ford?

[Crimson 0]

Better off spending your dough on a nice stereo unit.

Im getting the sound system, because once the truck is for my use only, (which it will be around January) I only plan to be at home when ever I need to. Im trying to make this a nice investment, because unlike computers, I dont want to have to upgrade every time I turn around.

[Schenkanator 0]

Yeah, home stereo is better, but a nice one in a car is good.

@Schenkanator: U an Aussie boy right? You holden or ford?

Holden myself, I'll be gunnin for Larry this time 'round the mountain, though I won't mind if Skaife/Kelly win.

Mind you, on the real roads, I take jap cars any day.

[Dan 0]

Oh yes, bathurst in less that a week...

Id holden to, but I wouldnt mind seeing Ambrose win it, he deserves it.

ANd yeah, jap cars are better for road, economical, but speccy lookin.

@Crimson, tahts the good things about car stereo, they dont outdate like computers

[Dark Ranger 0]

@Schenk,

You are absolutely right about the db and RMS levels. To us, we perceive a 800Watt to sound louder than a 400Watt. But to a calibrated microphone, it's not much more than 3db intensity. Thanks for pointing that out.

Crimson, as I mentioned earlier, my opinion is that 430Watts will be plenty. As far as an amplifier, my suggestion would be to check out the model below.

Rockford Fosgate Power 450S - 450Watts x 1 @ 4-Ohms (Bridged)

RF Amps

In your case, you'll need to be sure the sub driver Ohms(resistance) match as close as possible to the amp. Reason is that you won't be pairing two or more speakers, and you'll want to get the most performance out of your amp/speaker combo. If you get an 8-Ohm sub, and pair it to a 4-Ohm amp, you'll only be extracting about half of the performance your sub is capable of. If you get a 2-Ohm sub, and pair it with a 4-Ohm amp, you'll run the risk of overheating the amp if the amp isn't rated to produce voltage under 4-Ohm.

So, I think you'll be well under your budget, and still have a kickin' system when you're done. Check around your local shops for the components you decided on, and go have a listen.

Let us know when you make the purchase.

[Crimson 0]

Thanks DR, I really appreciate the professional advice.