Dragonmike 0 Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Whassup dudes I wouldn't call myself a forum regular but I pop in from time to time (and I've been doing this since GR first came out). I've always appreciated the news posted at GR.net so this is not a pointless accusation of any kind, more an observation about a rule here that caught my attention... [Forum Rule 3.11] Cheating: Discussion of online cheating is not permitted. From what I've read, Staff/Admins have decided to implement this rule to prevent people to access cheats more easily, flamewars etc. Point given. However, I think the opposite effect is being generated. Think about this: do you think that actually restricting people of talking about topics like racism, violence, etc is actually a way to solve those issues? In my humble opinion, this restriction of freedom of speech is exactly what fuels so-called underground-phenomena. Prohibit people to freely talk about the subjects, fine. People will search the web and find'em by themselves. Now is that a better solution? Talking freely about "bad" issues have always been the best way to prevent them. I'm not writing here about "legalizing" cheats... I'm talking about prophylactic, preventive measures. GR.net is one of the biggest GR fan-sites. Use it the right way. My point is: with Forum Rule 3.11 you are unfortunately, against your will, encouraging cheating Otherwise, keep up the good work Rocky & co, I like reading my daily news §ßßH©DR/\G=WYB= Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NightCrawler 137 Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 I disagree. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ruin 17 Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Rules are in place for a reason. If we allow cheats to be discussed/shared among others, we can really screw things over with UBI/RSE. Our goal is to be a good clean gaming site, not one that allows and promotes cheaters. In fact, one of our own staff members was involved in an anti-cheat project. Also remember that on someone else's website, there is no such thing as "freedom of speech". Rocky pays for this website out of his own wallet, he can run it how he pleases, plain and simple. This rule was established for mainly when the game first came out when cheats did run rampant and people wanted them bad, now it's not as big of an issue however. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dragonmike 0 Posted September 25, 2003 Author Share Posted September 25, 2003 Ruin, you're misunderstanding my post. Let me show you why. If we allow cheats to be discussed/shared You mix up two totally different things. Talking about problems isn't the same as having the problem. It's by informing people that you actually prevent bad things to happen. For example: if you talk about the effects of certain cheats while in use in online-gaming, you might help people to track cheaters down more easily. one of our own staff members was involved in an anti-cheat project. Very nice, I can only encourage him to keep it up. Rocky pays for this website out of his own wallet, he can run it how he pleases, plain and simple I'm not arguing about that. Nevertheless I found it useful to point certain things out in a constructive way. I'm not bashing here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Syncopator 0 Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 My point is: with Forum Rule 3.11 you are unfortunately, against your will, encouraging cheating I can understand where your sentiments are coming from, however I think that the above statement is wide of the mark. Let's look at it from other circumstances (purely hypothetical of course!): I'm addicted to heroin. I want to come round to your house and sit in front of your kids/mother/wife/loved ones and shoot up. I then want to try and convince all of the above that they should try it too. It's really good it is. Would you: a) Feel unhappy about this and ask me to please leave and keep my drug-habits to myself. OR b) Thank me for coming along and getting your kids hooked on smack - while cooking up a hit for yourself. You take me point. It is not this web site communiy's responsibility to clean up cheating on online games the world over. Thats a problem that needs more than any one site can suggest or provide. What this site does have however is THE RIGHT TO KEEP CHEATING OUT OF THIS HOUSE. If anyone wants to discuss cheating either pro or con, then do so elsewhere. As you point out - they are entirely free to do so. Therefore I see no problem. OUT. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ZJJ 74 Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 This is the philosophy behind the no cheat discussions. I linked to the thread in another forum that had this quote from Rocky. That is the argument for allowing cheat discussion - it permits decent gamers to learn and recognise cheats so they can take appropriate action against them. The other side of the coin is that discussing cheats... 1. Increases awareness of cheats to potential cheaters - who then go on a search to find out how to use these cheats. The cheating community therefore grows. 2. Inevitably leads to links being posted to cheat sites, and publicity for them. 3. Flame wars inevitably start due to unfounded cheat accusations. It's a tough call I agree, but the call I made, and stand by, is not to allow any cheat discussion. I believe most if not all major respected websites follow the same doctrine, and by doing so cheaters are forced further and further underground and refused a spotlight in the mainstream popular community. I used to post news of cheats on the news page to make fans aware of what was going on - but I got hate mail saying I was publicising and promoting cheating. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NightCrawler 137 Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 If we allow cheats to be discussed/shared among others, we can really screw things over with UBI/RSE. I think that says it all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
egobirchy 0 Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 GR.net manages to maintain a good spirited, polite, good humoured and close community. I'm sure there are lots of reasons for this. I'm also quite sure that by closing the door on the types of people that want to discuss hacks and cheats GR.net has helped itself become the thriving community that it is. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ARDelta 0 Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 The quote from Rocky that zjj posted pretty much says it all. The only "discussion" of cheating that is allowed is to say that it is wrong and detrimental to the gaming community as a whole. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Super-Bob 0 Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Think about this: do you think that actually restricting people of talking about topics like racism, violence, etc is actually a way to solve those issues? We're not trying to solve cheating, we're just trying to preemptively stop its spread through this site. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rocky 1,224 Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 I always welcome feedback DM, but in this case I disagree with you. I have nothing further to add to my explanation that zjj has kindly posted previously in this thread. In fact, I'll post it again with a little clarification here because I still stand by it's content 100%. Allowing cheat discussion does permit decent gamers to learn and recognise cheats so they can take appropriate action against them. However the other side of the coin is that discussing cheats... Increases awareness of cheats to potential cheaters - who then go on a search to find out how to use these cheats. The cheating community therefore grows.Inevitably leads to links being posted to cheat sites, and publicity for them. The cheating community therefore grows.Flame wars inevitably start due to the very nature of cheat accusations and discussions. Which is more work for the already overworked staff here. If all major respected websites follow the same doctrine, the cheats are refused a spotlight in the mainstream popular community. The web address of cheaters sites can become very hard to find if major sites follow this policy, history stands testament to that. Oh, and... Think about this: do you think that actually restricting people of talking about topics like racism, violence, etc is actually a way to solve those issues? GR.net is not here to solve GR Cheating, I will keep it out of the forums though, as will I racism or violence (flaming). Again, I do appreciate your constructive feedback, but on this issue, I am afraid I am not prepared to change stance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
_1G_HiLandR 0 Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Sounds like a topic started to create tension, not to solve any problems. I like Rocky's approach and stand by it! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ruin 17 Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 I hope you don't change your stance on it Rocky. We've had this policy for too long, and it's worked pretty dang well. Man, I'm just realizing that I've been staff for over a year and a half. Wow. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dragonmike 0 Posted September 26, 2003 Author Share Posted September 26, 2003 Sounds like a topic started to create tension, not to solve any problems. I like Rocky's approach and stand by it! Hey hey, c'mon I'm not creating any tensions here, I try to raise an important issue to help fighting cheaters... I am not prepared to change stance You're the boss. You have an opinion on the topic and I respect it. I just thought I'd stir it up a little because I personally don't agree with all the reasons. Hey, that's what a discussion forum is for, isn't it? The web address of cheaters sites can become very hard to find if major sites follow this policy Try [peeep! I censored myself here].com... If you want to find cheats, it's too damn easy, believe me. I understand fully that you don't want to promote them, though... Weird that you got replies from other people accusing you of promoting cheats when you were posting infos/feedbacks about them on the site... I bet those people just started shaking in their pants only by reading the word "cheat", while yelling "No! It's bad! We should not talk about it or we'll all go to hell!" LoL! Aaah, crazy times... Finally, We've had this policy for too long, and it's worked pretty dang well LoL! Obviously it couldn't have failed, since all post about cheats were deleted! Well, you got my opinion. Do what you wanna do with it (as long as it's politically and morally correct to be posted in here " ) PS: damn, I love'em smilies... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rocky 1,224 Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 You have an opinion on the topic and I respect it. I just thought I'd stir it up a little because I personally don't agree with all the reasons. Hey, that's what a discussion forum is for, isn't it? Sure thing, I got no problem with this or anything else being raised as long as it is civil Weird that you got replies from other people accusing you of promoting cheats when you were posting infos/feedbacks about them on the site... Yep, I was kinda suprised about those e-mails too. Not that I paid much attention to the ramblings of an anonymouse email or two, but I was just letting you see the "other side". The web address of cheaters sites can become very hard to find if major sites follow this policy Yeh, what I was refering to there was the infamous vertigo. He had a website, he probably still has. Ask how many people in this forum know that web address. I'd say less than a dozen of the total membership and less than 6 of the active membership. If I allowed cheat discussion, I would venture to suggest that a whole lot more people would 1. Know them name Vertigo, 2. Know his URL. That's why I take the hard line. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NightCrawler 137 Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Yeh, what I was refering to there was the infamous vertigo. I had almost forgotten. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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