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zulater

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Posts posted by zulater

  1. "What would you do for a Klondike Bar?"

    I have like ZERO computer skillz. I have no skills of any sort even vaguely relevant to this topic. Hell, I doubt I have any skills at all, of any type. Therefore...

    "I would do nothing." -Peter, 'Office Space'

    so what woud you say, ya do here?

    I would also do nothing. I have a fulltime job as a seismic data processor and want to spend my free time doing something enjoyable like playing a finished videogame or shooting guns or wood/metal working.

  2. Everyone loses there temper from time to time Zulater you and me included so why don't ya let this drop.

    I actually don't remember the last time I lost my temper. Well since maybe 5th grade anyways. It's just funny to me that people make these big stinks about leaving but always check in to see what is said and never leave. Just making observations, take them for what they are.

    Oh and incase you people missed it here it is again.

    FYI

    If you do not want to read someone's posts you can put them on ignore. it's not that hard and there is no need to get your panties in a wad over someone's opinion. sheesh.

  3. FYI

    If you do not want to read someone's posts you can put them on ignore. it's not that hard and there is no need to get your panties in a wad over someone's opinion. sheesh.

    incase you missed it. no reason for you to complain about x poster just ignore them.

  4. FYI

    If you do not want to read someone's posts you can put them on ignore. it's not that hard and there is no need to get your panties in a wad over someone's opinion. sheesh.

    Mod Edit: Please don't use overly large font again... 7 is rather large. Thanks, Ruin

  5. So the only thing we were missing badly were respawns.

    I wasn't aware there were respawns in life, I must have missed that in the manual. :P

    Dear Skratte,

    I have some information that might come as shock to you...

    GRAW is not Real Life! GRAW is a computer game, primarily made for people to have fun with!

    :rolleyes: MadMike

    Skratte is saying that it's funny that people want super realism then want respawns. it's like wanting a Dodge Viper that is slow.

  6. LOL hard earned cash. 50$ was about 1 hour of my time. I earned that posting from work today.

    Nice work then. Not everyone is making $50 an hour though and for those near minimum wage that's a good hunk of money. Nice to see that you understand what most people go through. Get back on your high horse and throw your money away on something because you obviously have lots of extra cash to spend. how about you give the OP 50 bucks and ask him to remove his post?

    He paid money so he can ###### if he wants. It's pretty funny that no one argues that [GR] had more people playing than GRAW. 5 months old vs 5 years old.

  7. However, alienating your core fanbase by not including the bare minimum that was included in the last iteration is asinine.

    I agree. But that's a different argument.

    As I said in an earlier post, creating a sequel is generally looked at from a different point of view than creating the original. [GR] was created with the mindset of, "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if we could do THIS (insert idea here)?" A sequel is generally created by looking at what worked and what didn't within the original, what the people liked and what they didn't and then basing the new game on that. It's a very different situation and experience tells us that as often as developers get it right, they sometimes get it wrong. I would argue that it's MUCH easier to create a new game than it is to create a sequel since there is so much less freedom when you have to try and fit to a previous mold or pre-concieved notions of what -should- be there.

    I would completely agree that in this case UBI and GRiN failed to accurately gauge what PC gamers thought was important in the [Ghost Recon] and as such failed to bring those things to the new one.

    That said, I do not believe for one second that GRiN came into this project with the intent of creating a brand new game in a vaccuum. That's simply not how sequels are done. The problem I think, is that the primary source for information on what was wanted in the game, for what was absolutely critical to be implemented came from UBI who have a track record for just not understanding our niche genre. By the time they got in contact with the community directly, it was likely too late for many major changes to be made, even if they would have been permitted by UBI. Now I'm not suggesting UBI said "Don't include a dedicated server" or "Don't you dare allow more than 4 people in co-op", just that the original design documents came from them. If THEY had stressed the importance of some of what we consider essential, then it's unlikely that so much time would have been misspent. A solid example of what I'm talking about are the character animations. They are absolutely excellent in GRAW, especially the diving and sliding ones. However, as cool as those are, I believe an inordinate amount of time, effort and money was spent on those. If I could choose between super realistic animations and more maps and game-modes or an SADS at release, I would without question choose one of the latter two.

    That still doesn't make the customer right all the time..... just me. :)

    we'll just have to agree to disagree. the customer is right most of the time. yes you do get customers that will just complain to complain or don't understand what they want or are just stupid but when you get many complaints on similar issues you obviously dropped the ball somewhere. ignoring the complaints will not get you more customers. people that complain are in essence giving you a second chance to fix your product because they like what they see they just think it could be better (customer loyality). The ones that take the time to complain are giving you information about why others that are silent are leaving for your compeditor.

    I'm still of the mindset that the customer is almost always right. After all the customer pays your salary. in gaming it's probably less because you are designing a product, but you get to find out if you were right or wrong based on your sales and the people using your product. i think it's pretty clear here with graw.

  8. Oh yeah you're right. that's why there's more people playing GRAW than playing HL2, BF2, RvS, FEAR, CSS, Quake3, Quake4, UT2004. all 144 of them.

    If you're going to argue with me, at least do me the courtesy of READING what I said. Find one place in there that I said GRAW was a better game than any of those you listed. Hmm... let me check it again... nope, not there. Not there either.... or there. Funny, I can't seem to find that anywhere. I CAN, however, find the place where I pointed out that folks at Valve stated that you CANNOT listen to and implement everything the hardcore fans want without ruining the game. People at id and and Epic have echoed that sentiment at one point or another. If I must, I'll hunt down those sources again.

    Now, what I DID say, for those that were too lazy to read a few paragraphs was this:

    The customer is not always right. Bad games get made by listening to everything the customers want and then haphazardly implementing those ideas.

    Of course your next argument will be something to do with dedicated servers and GRAW or some other feature that should have been there, and you know what? You're right. There are some ideas/requests/demands that the community serves out that are GREAT ideas and absolutely necessary for a successful game. That doesn't mean that every idea is good, or every customer's opinion is "Right". You have to be able to see the trash for what it is to find the gems hidden within it. That process starts with the assumption that customers are NOT always right and experience tells us that not only are they not always right, they are almost always wrong.

    If you're going to argue, argue on what was said. Making things up in an argument only weakens your position.

    I'll agree that not everything under the sun that someone says that might play the game should be taken into account. However, alienating your core fanbase by not including the bare minimum that was included in the last iteration is asinine. People refer to car analogies, sure the styles change but the core things are there and are getting better. The corvette has always been the fastest chevy produced. It has always been a two seater, always handled very well. You don't see the new designers changing any of the core values of the corvette. They aren't trying to upgrade it and make it get the best mileage of any chevy, not trying to put in 2 more seats, put a bed in it so you can haul things. why? because it's a corvette, it's meant to go fast and handle well so they improve on this.

    likewise grin/ubi whoever you want to blame has taken GR, a tactile methodical fps and tried to turn it into a run and gun game, left out the good handling, powerful engine, and tried to tune the motor for better gas mileage. IE left out LMS, Siege, 5+ player missions, Hamburger Hill, ability to control different characters etc., and stuck Domination (Unreal Tournament gametype) in their place. It took the community outrage to get the other gametypes into patches.

    So what I am saying in this situation is that a developer IGNORED the core community and did what they wanted to do and it failed miserably because they tried to change so much. Id, Valve, etc can ignore input by fans because they understand why their previous games were popular and included those values in their next iteration with some added features. They didn't try to reinvent the wheel. grin didn't understand why we loved GR so much and didn't try to understand and instead just made what they wanted.

  9. in fact , most of the time the customer is very wrong.

    that explains so much on GRIN's behalf ...

    agreed.

    Please. This "Customer is always right" bull has no place outside service and sales positions. One of the FIRST things you are taught in any technical job is that the customer is almost never right. They make wild assumptions based upon their own ignorance of the technology or situation and consistantly insist that they are correct. There's a reason you're taught to ask direct, closed questions that the customer can only answer in one of two or three ways as a primary means of gathering information.

    The game industry is almost in entirety based upon the understanding that gamers don't know how to build games. Gabe Newell from Valve and many others have stated consistantly that listening to hardcore gamers and implementing everything they request would destroy ANY game. Most suggestions are made without any sense of foresight or understanding of how that idea would affect the balance of the game or any other technical aspects within the code itself. The challenge for game developers is to evaluate what the customer wants, decide what is viable and how to implement that without distorting or unbalancing the gameplay. If you assume every ridiculous suggestion made by a gamer/customer is "Right" then you waste countless hours poring over how to properly implement things that simply cannot work or cannot be done without massive internal changes to the game.

    Considering the cost of development for games is now in the millions of dollars (US), the only way to successfully create a game that can turn a profit is to first KNOW what you as a developer want in the game (which yes, comes from what you think the customer wants) and then eventually look with great skepticism at what the customers are demanding. Without that skepticism and critical evaluation of whether or not the customer in that case was "right", games would go way over-budget and likely end up getting cancelled. Even if they managed to ship the game, a mish-mash of ideas from countless customers will generally conflict with one another, resulting in a very poor and unbalanced game.

    No, the customer is NOT always right. Get over yourselves and realize that your opinion is not holy and sacrosanct just because you are the all knowing customer.

    There are few adages that I hate more than that idiotic phrase.

    Oh yeah you're right. that's why there's more people playing GRAW than playing HL2, BF2, RvS, FEAR, CSS, Quake3, Quake4, UT2004. all 144 of them.

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