warhawk

@yodasplat You are 400% right. It was a poor, poor choice of words on my part. If I offended anyone it was completely unintentional on my part and I offer my apologies.

@Pavelow Yes I make a HUGE GIGANTIC AND COLLASIAL MISTAKE. I did mean internment camps. Thank you for pointing that out. Talk about a very very bad way to start a thread. And no I am not arguing one point or the other just wanting other peoples opinions on the subject. Yes I agree that the US is based on certain freedoms and detaining people just because of their eithnic background or religious believes is a dangerous thing to do. My point was to bring to the surface something that I have been discussing with people on a more private level. As I said originally, do we as a people go

Moderator Edit: WARNING: The following thread may contain images and discussion unsuitable for children. Please be advised of the content of this thread. I am starting this thread becuase I happen to still be on the fence about it. With war with Iraq looming on the horizion should countries participating in that war take extraordinary procedures to protect it's citizens? Should we go back to the mind set of World War II and inter those of Arab decent just becuase some of them might be a part of a terrorist organization? Part of me says no way. Do not do this. But then I am reminded

@budgie Let me start out by saying thank you for your spirited debate on this issue. It has forced me to broaden my knowledge in some key areas. Yes they do have a right to have a different position than the US. As I have said this shouldn't be about that. I still believe that they have an obligation to Turkey under the NATO treaty. It is my opinion that they are not honouring their obligations under the spirit and intent of that treaty. Of all the things you have ever said, unless I am misinterrepting what you are saying here, I am glad to see this the most. Whether a p

@budgie Article 3 is not about whether or not a country has enough defences or not. The whole point behind NATO was to form a union to stand firm against any agression that would threaten world peace. Additionally this treaty was put in place to give legal grounds for actions to be taken to protect one another. As you well know your own personel level of security is not based on what someone else tells you is enough. As I have said before France, Germany, and to a greater or lesser extent as I don't know their official stance on war with Iraq, and Belgium are using this as a way to tr

@snakebite1967 What's that? Oh you mean parades. That's about the only thing the French army is good for. @viper You know Bush may just be a little more pushy than some would like. But those few have been coddled long enough by former President Clinton. Now they don't seem to like it when someone reminds them of the things they have to do. You have made some very good points. Stout Hearts Warhawk

@budgie As I have said before, Turkey has asked for specific help not general help. They are asking for things like Patroit Missile Batteries and Chemicial and Biologicial decontamination/treatment facilities to help in the event that Saddam launches missles loaded with chem/bio warheads. This is Article 3 covers. Giving money to the families of suicide bombers in Israel to me smacks of something more than just dabbling. France and Germany, I don't know so much about Belgium although they do appear to be closely tied to Germany, are using NATO to further their own stance a

Some additional news I think is worthy of repeating at this time. The UN weapons inspectors either today or will in the immediate future, destroy 10 artillery shells filled with mustard gas that were found in Iraq. (Insert sarcasim here) Since we know that Saddam does not have ANY chemical or biological weapons it can be his right? This is just yet one more shinning example of how Iraq is in material breach of UN resolutions. For those that can't see it, this would mean that the complete disclosure it was supposed to have given late last year was indeed false. Not to mention that it has

@budgie Unless you are also using the nickname Wep_magnum then my rebuke about putting words in my mouth wasn't directed at you. I appreciate however the thought. At least you are kind enough to offer apologies when you feel it necessary. As for the rest of your post I will respond to it later. Must get back to work. Stout Hearts Warhawk

@Wep_Magnum Since you seem to want to bring this point up then I would ask you your opinion on the untold amounts of money that Russia has invested into Iraqi oil? Do this not count as well for an ulterior motive on Russia's part? I never said there was any treaty obligations to attack along side. What I am saying is that France Germany and Belgium (I forgot them in my original post) have an obligation under Article 3 to provide the aide that Turkey has requested. It is only should Iraq attack Turkey, as spelled out in Articles 5 and 6 that those countries would then have an

The French President's name is Chirac. The attitude being displayed by France right now is consistent with their overall view since the late 1950's. So it shouldn't suprise anyone really. They have just gotten worse over the years. I sometimes think that this attitude is out of some type of jealousy over the fact that they are no longer the world leaders that they once were. But that is just my own personal opinion. Stout Hearts Warhawk

@snakebite The day I see the British government/people get led around by another country, especially the US, is the day I fall over dead. I agree 130% with everything you said. @Budgie I agree with this part enough said. You might want to be careful just how wide a brush you decide to paint with. Depending on the US's next move, most likely with North Korea, will dictate my stance with President Bush. I have my own feelings on that issue but this is not the forum to discuss that. This was what you said about Germany and France, just so you dont have to find what I

@Pyro_Monte I am responding to your post where you were wanting to know what support for Turkey meant. I am hoping that in answering you Wep Magnum will also see my point as well. If you haven't heard any specifics then do a little more research. As it was reported on CNN the kind of support that was asked of NATO was in the form of things like Patriot Missle Batteries and Bio/Chemicial treatment and detection facilities and equipment. You are completely off track IMHO so far. Imagine if you will that Saddam's army has been pushed to the gates of Baghdad, as they will be, a

@300Mag I couldn't have said it better myself. Too many times people have wanted to say that Gore would being doing a better job right now. That scares me. I can just see him saying "lets just all sit around the camp fire and sing some songs" Liberal politicians too often embolden these lunatics and ultimately someone has to deal with it. All to often, by the time it gets to that point people have had just enough "Can't we all just get along" shoved down their throats that they forget that sometimes peace does really come at a price. Freedom is not given it is earned. Stout Hearts

@Wep_Magnum What Turkey is wanting is protection from Iraq's chemicial and biological threat. The nations that make up NATO, this includes the Germans and the French, have an obligation under teh NATO Alliance to come to the aide of any member country that asks for it's help. The threat posed by Iraq may not be felt in a pre-emptive strike but rather as retaliation for Turkey allowing US forces to be based from there. If France and Germany don't for what ever the reason have the stomach to stand behind not only the US but the United Kingdom and now Australia as well as all the other na

@Budgie When it comes to Tiawan and South Korea. The US will never stand idly by while China and NK absorb these two countries. Let me tell you why. As you so aptly pointed out they are beacons of freedom in Asia. We haven't let down either country yet. Additionally, Austrailia would see the invasion of these two countries as near and dear to their own National Security. And for that reason too the US would act. The US is not going to soon forget who stands by it and who doesn't. Just ask Britian. Lastly, the two countries that are seen as a threat, China and North Korea in this ca

What's scary is that I was guilty of one or two of those during my military career. Stout Hearts Warhawk

@300mag Just when I thought I had a topic I could start for a change you step up. Since you covered most of what I was thinking I will only say this. Firstly on your original comments: Absolutely Secondly to add to them I would ask. What does this say to other non Nato countries? To those who want to join Nato I imagine they have to be having second thoughts right about now. If NATO can be stopped from fullfilling it's obligation to Turkey under Section 4 then these prospects can't feel too comfortable. To those that would be opposition to NATO I am sure they see the beginni

Where do I start? @Pyro Monte The UN was founded with the intent origianally to give countries a neutral place to work out their differences. In this setting other countries, it was hoped, would voice their own opinions and try to put foward their own solutions to problems between nations in the hope that war could be averted. Unfortunately over the years, and I have had a few in which to watch the change, this has indeed changed to what the UN has become today. The UN and countries like France and Germany, have decided that once again peace is the only solution even if it means giv

WHOA!!!! What a rush! Stout Hearts Warhawk

When you say before 1948 what in your mind makes this specific year the magical cut off date?

Surprise? Nothing about gates surprises me. Stout Hearts Warhawk

In trying to get a Win98 driver that was DX 9 Compatible I finally read the small print in the DXDiag window. Here is what I finally saw. Current drivers tested for a WHQL are only available on Windows ME, Windows 2000, and Windows XP. New Windows 98 drivers are no longer tested for WHQL logo's. So for all of us who are still using Windows 98, I guess this is Microsoft's way of saying spend yet more money. As if! Stout Hearts Warhawk

No I'm talking like changing what types of enemies appear on the maps. Say like adding snipers to the embassy mission as an example. Stout Hearts Warhawk

The squeaking wheel in this case is Saddam. Since that, as you so aptly pointed out, is what messes up the ride it will be replaced. Stout Hearts Warhawk