k1ller
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Posts posted by k1ller
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My two maps, MYTOAN Sniper and Guarded Forest are available as MAX5 files for anyone intersted. Guarded Forest MAX5 scene is here, and MYTOAN Sniper MAX5 scene is here.
Textures are in map packages.
MYTOAN MAX5 package has been downloaded about 500 times from @war and Guarded Forest about 150 times. Other sources probably double that amount. Still I haven't heard of anyone releasing any updates or modifications to those maps. Someone (mac-user apparently
) fixed MYTOAN's multiplayer game though, which was very nice.Even though there are thousands of downloads, no one has yet released any geometry patches to either of those maps. When MYTOAN was released there were lots of requests in the forums that someone (not me) would expand MYTOAN scenery to a larger town. After few months someone tried but failed miserably even though adding new components to MYTOAN should be quite trivial task. Since then I haven't heard of anyone asking about MYTOAN modding. I think this pretty much proves the point that so called "GR community" doesn't work the way most people here seem to think about. I don't know if any other "communities" work any better though...
If, anyhow, you want to prove my point wrong, go ahead, try but don't fail ;-).
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I had same kind of problem when I was making Guarded Forest (no screenshots of that bug though).
I think that the darkmap-bug was there because some objects in the scene were inside other room's portal. For example object A was grouped with "room 1" and it was partly inside "room 2" too - and still everything would export nicely.
Try to move objects near portals further away and check if your floor planes are somehow crossing and see if the bug still happens. Strange shaped / positioned portals can cause such thing too.
If you have time and interest you can download Guarded Forest MAX5 and see why it happens there. Some rocks on the bottom right side of the map are between two rooms.
I don't have darkmaps enabled in the released version of GF so there isn't such darkmap-bug.
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I don't just like it when people take credit of someone else's work. And just to make my point clear again (Chems, take no offense, I know that you'll be giving the credit to those who deserve it when/if you release this map).
Some quotes from previous pages:
- Been working heres my fruits. -Chems (only re-lit / texturing as far as I know)
- I've said before: nice Sphinx Shadow! Also nice tomb-room Chems! -San (reader gets the idea that Chems has modeled / textured / done the whole tomb-room, when he actually has just re-textured / re-lit it)
- Still waiting for Chems to clear his busy schedule to take a look at altering the maps. -=MM=Shadow (Again, reader gets the idea that Chems has done the map)
(Those who wrote these quotes probably know who are involved with this map but those who read it get it all wrong)
After TonyO released MAX4 file of Abydos map (released 15.7.2003) there hasn't been any significant updates to this map.
On pages 5, 6 and 7 you can't even find who has originally done the map, on page 4 he is mentioned once. I'd say that people would assume after this thread that Chems has actually done the map (which probably wasn't Chems' idea).
This is also a matter of some criticism. I bet you didn't know before who had done the map. I also think that I'm in such position in "GR modding community" that I criticize Chems. I was involved with Stargate mod for months but because of the lack of co-operation with TonyO and Draconis I didn't get much to do and finally nothing got done properly.
I've also released two maps for "GR community" to use.
and
Which have been released as MAX5 files as well so people can look at how maps look like in MAX. Currently there are about 4500 clicks to MYTOAN and 417 clicks to it's MAX5 file according to atwar.
My point still is, that other people than Chems only can mod the map if they want to. I wouldn't release that map with just re-texturing and re-lighting and I wouldn't like the idea that someone else does exactly that.
- Been working heres my fruits. -Chems (only re-lit / texturing as far as I know)
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Chems, I think that you are too eagerly taking credit of making that map. As far as I know (and what everyone can see from Abydos map by TonyO) you have only re-textured / re-lit the map. ALL modeling (and probably most of the texturing too) has been done by TonyO and now you're claiming that no one else has to bother as you have got it well covered.
I'd say that you have done less than 1% of all the work that has been put on to that map.
I still think that this map isn't even close to be ready to release. Interior of pyramid should be larger and more detail should be put in there. Hallways and doorways are too narrow. Torch-pedestals look crappy. Desert area has too few places to go and too little details. Gate-room is badly lit. And so on.
In your earlier post you say that " Looks cool, the abydoss map is good but it mainly need texture work on the cat " which I don't agree with.
Textures of the "egyptian room" are also by TonyO (he probably has copied those from the 'net and those don't necessarily have anything to do with Stargate mythology). Most of the textures are also very badly done, sarcoph1.rsb and sphinx.rsb for example.
Only stargate model, character models and weapons are quality good enough to be released - made by =MM=Shadow.
I think that releasing this map after only re-texturing and re-lighting is very stupid. Someone really has to bother if this map is going to be released. And Chems could maybe remember to mention who originally has done all the work.
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If someone is interested, those Stargate maps are available as MAX4 format (doesn't work with previous versions of MAX) at http://ghost.xcalpro.com. Originally these maps are made by TonyO.
Abydos map is somewhat ready but I think it still needs much more details and more places to go. Releasing it after re-texturing (and re-lighting) would be stupid.
Hatak map is something which probably should be left alone. Someone with little experience with MAX can redo the same map in couple hours. And this map isn't even accurate model of mothership seen on Stargate.
Here's a screenshot of the abydos map.
Two more pictures are at http://sektori.com/~pege/ghostrecon/mytoansniper/ named abydos8.JPG and abydos9.JPG (abydos4-6.jpg's are from earlier version of the map).
So anyone with interest can complete these maps if they want to.
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How about rk62-model. That is more of a classic weapon than rk95.
(This isn't an entry for competition.. maybe it's just close enough for another entry and you can move on to next model
Couple more pics at http://sektori.com/~pege/rk62/
- 1288 faces
813 vertices
587 polys
- 1288 faces
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Much of the techniques I've used in MYTOAN Sniper or Guarded Forest aren't used in example map.
I don't think that stealing others work is very common. All the scripts / missions made in Igor are available for anyone to change but I haven't heard of anyone re-release already released missions with their own name. (Even DAGRM credits people from whom he has stolen work, AFAIK.) Well made missions offer a good view of how script should look like for a starting modder.
If there was similar program for making maps, those maps would probably be editable as well. Now that all the maps must be made in MAX it somehow changes it to "hard work that must be protected". I understand that someone doesn't want to share his work, but the benefits of sharing could be more constructive than keeping it all on yourself. Learning MAX properly takes a good amount of time (and hard work) but it shouldn't be reason to make it hard for those who want to learn it - for modding or other purposes.
It's also good to notice how "well" the "GR community" works. Stalker_Zero long asked for someone to modify MYTOAN to a larger city. It took months to find someone even try it. Eventually no one did nothing. For the record, MYTOAN Sniper MAX5 file has been downloaded over 400 times from ATWAR alone. Maybe people don't want to modify what someone else started, but atleast they want to just take a look at it. And then someone would steal my work, edit it maybe to a little better and re-release it?! Yeah, right!
@Alpha
Moving bushes is the same effect as waving trees. Some of the bushes are maybe little too much inside the ground... With "medium graphics" trees and bushes seem "jumpy" because low-poly models change to high-poly.
@Sleeper
What are those things that I'm doing incorrectly in which you refer in this thread? Maybe if you someday post your actual advice, or preferably fix the problems yourself, I could learn something?
The bugs that are in the map are RSE-generated. I'm still waiting for them to release working tools
. (If you have something to complaing about MYTOAN or Guarded Forest, go fix it yourself!) -
I've done some trenches on my map Guarded Forest. There is MAX5 file available for download (doesn't work with previous versions of MAX) and the actual map is here.
So here's somekind of tutorial how to make such trenches:
1. Create quadpatch / plane for ground (100m * 100m for example) and put good amount of height and width segments there (30-50 segments).
2. Add "Edit Mesh" modifier to stack (or convert mesh to editable mesh)
(2b. Add "Noise" modifier)
3. In "Edit Mesh" subobject selection select "Edge". Choose edges in which you want to create the trench. Even corners come out nicely with this technique.
4. "Edit Mesh" -> "Edge" -> "Chamfer". With chamfer you define how wide trench you want to make. Trench must be so wide that ghosts can pass each other in trench.
5. "Edit Mesh" -> "Polygon". Select the "trench polygons".
6. "Edit Mesh" -> "Polygon" -> "Extrude". Extrude downwards as much as you like.
(6b. Add "Noise" modifier if you already didn't do it in 2b)
7. "Edit Mesh" -> "Polygon" / "Vertex". Now you should manually pull vertices to smooth corners and so on. Basically now you have your trench done and everything else is just making it look nice.
(7b. Add "Noise" modifier if you already didn't do it in 2b or 6b)
In my Guarded Forest example you can see how I've solved the problem how ghosts can get out of the trench (they can't just jump out of there
. Also some restriction walls must be added so ghosts / enemies don't get stuck or crawl through trench walls.Same method can be used to make roads, rivers and such.
(Where's the shadows? Yeah, you guessed right - LightingTool can't produce working darkmap here either. It has some major problems recognizing rooms / portals.)
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@Chems (and others interested about two-sided textures)
Using two-sided textures isn't always a good idea. When you don't use two-sided textures, only normals that are pointing towards "camera" must be rendered.
Imagine a cube. It has 6 sides (squares) which consist of 12 faces (triangles). Normally (in MAX) all the normals point only outwards. If you delete one side of the cube you observe that you can see through it because normals are pointing only outwards. Applying a two-sided texture to this cube results in seeing the inside of the cube too. This means that the both outward pointing normals and inward pointing normals are rendered which leads to slower rendering times and reserving more memory. (Basically it means that then cube has 12 sides, 6 for pointing outwards and 6 inwards.)
Above example is the same as given in 3dsmax R5 help.
That doesn't mean that using two-sided textures is a bad thing, using them always is. When the cube is "closed" there is no need to use two-sided texture on them.
If someone used two-sided textures on characters, it'd mean that lots of rendering power goes to rendering faces that don't even show.
Here's quote from max help. There is also a good picture explaining the thing.
Usually, you want 2-sided rendering turned off since it slows rendering time. However, if you want to render the inside as well as the outside of objects, or if you've imported complex geometry (for example, from AutoCAD) in which the face normals are not properly unified, you can use one of the methods above to render each face regardless of its normal's orientation. -
I've had the same problem and it's one of the many bugs of LightingTool. You have to 'File -> Set Texture Directory' in LightingTool. Apparently LT can search textures from 'working directory' but can't produce working darkmap to same directory unless texture directory is defined.
For more information and conversation about the bug, take a look at http://www.theplatoon.com/snitz/topic.asp?...?TOPIC_ID=10351 this thread, in which I ask about the same problem and manage to solve it as the thread goes on
. It's little off-topic first but 7. post which is mine (k1ller) starts the conversation about darkmap problem. -
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Actually MYTOAN Sniper wasn't left off, FMJ just didn't show much of the surroundings and I didn't want to invent something out of my head. It is true that the map is quite small and borders of the map are clearly visible.
What comes to expanding MYTOAN, it shouldn't be problem at all for someone who is familiar with 3dsmax. Most of the "modders" here seem to think that 3dsmax is meant for GR mapping and assume they can learn it in couple months.
All the buildings in MYTOAN are very clearly separated in to their own rooms which are basically "holes" in the ground (rooms.jpg). If there's need to expand map to larger, it should be very easy to create new buildings, roads or whatever outside the town as part of room _1 (outside) or create new room for them with the same technique used with other buildings.
Heightmaps (dispalcement in MAX) aren't usually very good idea creating a surface for a map. Terrain generators and such aren't also any good. It doesn't take much time to create quadpatch in MAX and then pull vertices up and down with proper falloff (under edit mesh -> soft selection) and maybe even add noise modifier to give some realism.
Heightmaps are quite difficult to control. After creating a heightmap you must update the scene in MAX and if the result isn't what you want you have to edit heightmap again and so on. Not very efficient. Sometimes it maybe useful to create heightmap to get rough version for reference and edit the surface in "vertex-level". (That's how Guarded Forest was originally started.)
If you need example for quite large landscape, ther is Guarded Forest for MAX5 available. Landscape has been broken in three pieces for better performance. I recommend to delete or hide the stuff you don't need (trees, portals, room shells, rocks, trenches...) so you get better view how things are done.
There is also new tree type, which is taken from CD that came with "MAX 2 - Fundamentals".
Some images of the Guarded Forest:
Shadows of the trees - used in darkmap
@ImmoralTwo
It is impossible to give any tutorial for "making maps from scracth", which should be quite clear to even newbie. It is possible to tell what kind of tags and such must be present to get map to work, which are quite well documented in Schell's tutorials. Tutorials which aren't specificly meant for Ghost Recon (or some other game) aren't usually usable for - hopefully - obvious reasons.
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Thanks for help Jack. I hope that Siege works as it should.
I've released Guarded Forest at General Mod topics
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Guarded Forest screenies
More progress screenies at http://sektori.com/~pege/ghostrecon/guardedforest/. Pictures are from oldest to newest, so pics after gf025.JPG are quite near final version.
Download Guarded Forest here.
There is also MAX5 scene of Guarded Forest available. Doesn't work with previous versions of MAX. It's open for modding and maybe good example for future modders
.There is a little mission which basically is shooting sitting ducks in the forest because AI has some problems with large amount of trees. In multiplayer game this probably works better.
Someone could maybe put up a server sometime so we could try it a bit? I can't host because I'm behind firewall and don't have enough bandwidth.
GF supports all common gametypes such as siege, hamburger hill and such. I haven't been able to test that these work as expected but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work.
Runs about 25fps to 40fps (sometimes even 75fps) with 1900+ and GF4200Ti.
-k1ller
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Should siege work automatically if I _only_ make zones named as you said? Could you be little more specific on the names too ("base0" and "Base 0" do have certain difference...)
I tried with several different naming solutions and I never saw my map on the list when I tried to create multiplayer game as Siege type.
Which bases are for attackers and defenders? Which one defines the smoke? How about all the different tags for zones (Point 0-35; Base 0-3, tr0a-tr3c; SP/Coop Base; Central Area; Recon Insertion; Recon Extraction; Assault Platoon 0-3)?
@Matt
Have you done Siege before?
(I'd still appreciate if someone wanted to do it to the map)
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I haven't come up with any name yet.. I'll probably figure out something.
I have checked all multiplayer modes and "available for custom game types" in IGOR. Only 'Mission' type of game works if I try to create multiplayer game. Other game types (siege, hamburger hill, firefight, defend, ...) don't work - my map doesn't appear on the list.
I assume that I have to import siege-script from "mods\mp1\mission\(team) siege.gtf" and then somehow define the locations of bases and position of the smoke. Currently I have managed to get smoke visible on the game but I'm not sure if I did it right and why is it only appearing in Mission type of game.
What are the parameters of Zones in IGOR that I have to define for smoke / bases / respawn places / some other? / etc.?
Do different Recon Insertion / Extraction zones have something to do with Siege? How about SP/Coop Base toggle and Point 0-35? I don't have a clue about these.
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What would be the best way to implement siege-gametype and possibly others to a custom made map?
I've found "(team) siege.gtf" from ../Mods/Mp1/Mission/ directory. I imported this script to IGOR but I wasn't able to figure out how to set smoke on the map. Are there any other type of zones / bases I should set to the map?
I can play the map in Quick mission -> choose my map -> play with siege rules. I can't even select my map when I try to create as Multiplayer game.
If someone is interested doing this for me (and get credited for it, of course) it'd be nice.
Some screenies of the map are at http://sektori.com/~pege/yal/ and they're in oldest to newest order.
-k1ller
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So, here's some screenshots.
More progress images at http://sektori.com/~pege/yal/
Map is about 400m x 200m. It has quite amount of trees and might not run smoothly on slower machines.
I have 1900+ with GF4200Ti and I get 25-40fps with all details high. With medium details it's almost always 75fps.
Post a message if you'd want to make a mission.
-k1ller
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Only 3D Studio MAX can be used to export models / guns / characters / maps to GR.
Ghost Recon doesn't use any standard file format and that's why there has to be separate plugin which can save to format that GR understands. RSE has made this plugin for 3D Studio Max only (.max to .map -converter, guns and characters are exported with some other extension but same plugin will do that too).
If it someone was able to "reverse engineer" GR's .map format (.map is the format in which GR maps are stored) then it would be possible to create .map to <someotherfileformathere> -converter and vice versa (.map to .lwo for example). It isn't trivial task to do though, so don't expect so see it soon. And even if someone was able to do that, RSE wouldn't probably like the idea.
But as I said in my previous post, it is possible that you model some pretty good looking guns and people here at the "GR community" like them so much that they'll do the conversion for you (it is possible to do Lightwave to 3dsmax -conversion).
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It will work but you have to able to export from LW to some format that 3dsmax understands (.dxf, .3ds, some others). Then some friend of yours just exports it from MAX to GR.
Problem is, that conversion might not be 100% accurate and some vertices / faces might get distorted and texture mappings don't fit. On the other hand, it is possible that conversion is good enough and your friend can export it from MAX without tweaking.
Same applies to everything else. You can do even whole map in LW, or any other 3d modelling program, but conversion between file formats can "break" your scene. Also tagging (surface properties, animating, and such) must be done in MAX.
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Sharing MAX files could be considered as open source.
People don't need to "reinvent wheel" every time they start to do something if there's already something similiar done.
Making trees for GR is a good example of why sharing MAX files is "good for community". Everybody doesn't have to recreate tree when they need one, instead they can just copy it from example map that RSE provided. Or someone needs a barrel in to his map and he can just copy barrel texture from stock maps.
If people don't share their work it can lead (in a way it already has) in to a situation in which all the maps are copies of stock maps that RSE released in MAX format. Most of the released mods have textures copied from stock maps (ground, tree, barrel, sky, etc. textures) which really doesn't bring anything new to modding.
@ Sleeper
It isn't stealing if author wants to share his work with everyone interested. You are in same way "stealing" RSE's trees and textures. Also your attitude towards "open source" could be little bit more constructive - luckily some people here have already given you some good arguments.
I have released Foomod (MYTOAN Sniper map) as a MAX5 file as well (screenshots in same directory and readme is worth reading if you plan to use parts of foomod to your own purposes).
I think that tools that RSE released could be better. LightingTool is full of bugs and crashes way too easily and lighting a map with it properly is utterly impossible. Also creating a .sht-file with IGOR is for some reason amazingly slow.
Maybe releasing Frostbite's maps in MAX format would cheer more people into modding.
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It depends what kind of data you are packing (text / sound / graphics / etc.).
http://compression.ca/act-win.html - this site has quite good comparison between compressors.
It is impossible to say that <somecompressorhere> is the very best compressor in the market. It might be that some compressors do well in packing ghost recon mods (which include quite much graphics).
For compatibility among windows users zip is probably the most common format.
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Quoting Mauti in Mytoan sniper thread:
"The Mac Ghost Recon version doesn't support textures with Alpha1R5G5B5 channels. These textures appear pink and totaly screwed. Could you please reexport all your textures that uses transparency as A4R4G4B4 or A8R8G8B8 textures or something similiar..."
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Not that I'm aware of. I'd be happy to know if you run in to some bigger problems. I just might have enough interest to fix such problems. Maybe you and your superb clan =UAL= have time and interest to do siege and other game modes for this map?
. Thanks anyway and good night 
MYTOAN Sniper re-release
in GR - General Mod Topics
Posted
Monoman at the www.macgamingmods.com has enabled multiplayer modes for MYTOAN Sniper. MYTOAN has been quite popular map so I though people might still be interested about multiplayer game in it.
You can download patch also from here (mytoan sniper.mis) or the whole package from here (15MB). Instructions for patch installation are found here. Screenshots from MYTOAN (notice that only gr033-gr038.jpg are from final version, earlier shots are from "making of") if someone isn't familiar with the map.
Thanks Monoman.