calius
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Posts posted by calius
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Let's try to avoid a "political discussion."
Thats like a gag order saying .. "don't talk about it please".
I thought political discussion was frowned at in the military forum?
Anyway its hard to post these things and expect silence, but at least your letting it be posted so that's a good thing.
I just find sometimes it gets locked if people agree a lot with it in certain ways whereas it seems ok to leave unlocked when people who disagree firmly state their case. Things in the past went this way.
I will leave it open, but if this devolves into a true political discussion, I will lock it.I don't see why you don't simply leave the conspiracy theory thread open to all opinions but lock anything else (but dont delete), I mean lets face it this off topic section is a DS info fest
and dare to speak for it and open a debate its wobbly hand over the lock central ... leave one open for views I say.And no that's not for my selfish reasons or ref the other locked post, that kind of made sense to a point
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So the governments & Hollywood and past presidents are all paranoid? (because my point was from that perspective)
BTW that article in the BBC was laughable, I mean they picked the most obvious things to poke a old hat stick at simply to have a justified article for "the other side take a stand". It literally saying, people are fed up with the other people asking questions and they are taking a stand against the people asking the questions as if that must be the right thing to do no matter what, no real balance to it. The good ole left/right divide and rule thing rides again
Remember this is the BBC that in a very tiny blog and no more mentioned they didn't have any knowledge of problems when they reported building 7 of 9/11 had collapsed yet it was standing behind the reporter saying this 20 mins before its actual collapse. then the feed got cut while reporting this moments before it actually did happen.
Hate to mention that last bit for fear of repeating old things (which i will try not too)... but to justify why I did, it puts into perspective about the "source" and 100 percent reliability.
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I think the worst would be the sound of 2 cats screeching at one another, but only take 4 seconds of it and put on permanent 4 sec loop for 1 day.
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@DS ... LOL
... Manford is great, prefect example to use.BTW is it me or is Youtube really ###### to skip through where you want very well, bit rusty.
Anyway, I hate to bring this into the mix (but you know me) ... remember that old ronnie and a few are very well connected up top and "placing the idea" of outer attack or another "them" brings the point of reagans speech and oddly enough what Jason manford was saying, we would "all come together as one world" in a situation such as that.
Remember War Of The Worlds back in the day was a psy-op test and that worked pretty well, I think you might know what Im trying to say here (plus connecting the 2012 push).
Social Engineering.
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I took ARMA and ARMA2 back and traded them in today, I only got £14 for them both
Im shocked and stunned
I moved from Ghost Recon (loved that to death) to Arma1 then Arma2 and I wont ever really change back.
Arma1/2 are the sandbox that I got introduced to via Ghost Recon and then some. When I realised I could knock up missions and scenarios that blew me away in Ghost Recon pretty easy with a few scripts, that was it for me.
I cant see the relation to GRAW onwards to Arma2 .. bit like the current Dragon Rising V Arma2 thing, both are nearly comic books in comparison to what you can actually have and do with arma, totally open book.
It got with me that GRAW onward entered into this tech war console aspect that I hated from early on when info was spilling out about GRAW1. Turned me off completely and I though GRAW onwards was a limp link to Ghost Recon much like OFP is to OFP:DR.
I think if you play Arma1/2 and run the campaign and simply compare that to the other games it does fail in a way, but its a cliche as its not really about the campaign its about getting your hands on some lego and going DIY all the way.
Its funny becuase even though the scope of Arma1/2 are big I'm always ending up going back to my Ghost Recon roots and havering 6 men teams taking out patrols, like tango hunt in Ghost Recon. Only in Arma I can set it up on a massive island and ferry myself around with vehicles of choice, plus use paroling scripts that are random pathways and random on mission start, totally non linear goodness
And you can blame Ghost Recon for that, it was that game that introduced me to the phrases "non linear gaming" - "open ended" and "modding" Funny its Ghost Recon that made me turn away from the GRAW series and move to Arma.
I will keep my eye on GR4 and see what comes, but I think Arma kind of grabbed me with want I wanted more of from Ghost Recon which didn't come with GRAW+. And it might be hard becuase I compare a lot to Ghost Recon/Arma1+2.
Anyway to answer the threads main question, my answer would be:
"looking at how the franchise went after Ghost Recon and looking at how OFP:DR did ... I dont think they can compete or compare to be honest". -
Heres a new video using the new AI improvements ...
Following Special Forces Team Alpha in a desperate 6 vs 25 AI scenario.SF team should move from North of Stary Sobor to south west.
Two enemy groups are aguarding the southern border of the village.
Alpha team is NOT aware of their presence, but it will be able to outflank enemy (first part of the video) and to engage and exterminate it from an advantage position (second part of the video).
Now starting to look like AI are a cohesive team
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What few realize is that this Mayan prediction predicts the end of one of their time periods (which name escapes me) The Great... something. Anyway, it's a measurement of time of about 5000 years, we're nearing the end of it. It never predicted the end of the world, just a giant Happy New Year.. type... deal. Hmmn. I need to read up on this again...
Yes indeed, but if hollywood has its way its all about the end of the world, and the new 2012 film (cant be bothered to link it becuase its so stupid) is also by the makers of Independence Day ... hmmmm nice little topic link by the same people.
usual Hollywood tripe used to mask any proper details ...
2012 the new Y2K .. for clones.
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Baptazia >>
in Humor
If only every Sunday was like this.
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There's nothing like a good boo.
Apart from the odd hiss and maybe a "grrrrrrrrr" *fist wave*
come out being worse criminals than they were when they went inMaybe some people think that's actual a good idea
Its true though with young offenders. Anyone see that BBC doc about racism in Bristol? 11 year olds threatening a woman and all sorts. I have to say to U.S folk don't do what we probably do about the US and assume its in many places, you will find like most things it mainly centered in poorer estate areas to be honest. The stats in the media get highlighted but as a population as a whole its not a knife pandemic as they try to say it is.
That said the places and people who do this I agree with D.S ideas.
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That was a sneaky edit wasn't it Para? Last time I looked nothing of pics and final words .. hmmm. The pics do not prove anything, scale of building to pile ratio & mass left over = most gone to dust ... where else did it go, didnt fly away did it ... common sense right?
the debris was not in a "small pile" as Calius put it. Debris was strewn all around the area, across a busy highway, and even atop other buildings.I didnt say small pile "literaly" did now Para, I was trying to explain the amount left over vs the amount the building were before hand even you must have known that. Nit picking words and phrases is cheap.
BTW yes crap was spread and embedded all over the place, which is also strange when shown the force for some of it to embed itself etc.
In all honesty, I find it very disrespectful to the thousands of people who died that day, to try to make the event out to be any more horrible than it already was.So questioning events means your a cold person and don't care?? I didn't do it mate, im not pulling the strings.
Over three thousand people died that day in an act of deliberate terrorism perpetrated by Al Qaeda. Why does there have to be some deeper conspiracy?
There doesn't HAVE to be anything. When all things are considered the mounting info to the official line outways the official line, sorry, I didn't make it up.
Is the simple fact that Al Qaeda wanted to kill as many Americans as possible not enough? Does that concept not cause you enough consternation? For shame, really. For shame.Ah the last attempts at the guilt trip angle ... your telling me pretty much that's how I must feel, you have no clue on that and its pretty shoddy to flip the "people who died" card. Plenty of survivors and families of people who past are also asking questions.
You win Para, is all a dream and 9/11 went the exact way it did and was exactly as the media suggested, im wrong, and I know nothing and a paranoid fool. Im sorry for wasting peoples reading time
Anyway Para you want to play private investigator and debunk merchant try spending more time and energy on investigating the way the world is run, you may find that this helps a little.Notice it always ends up the BS people are always right by default and end up debunking point by point a posters claims ... whereas all I did was simply point out that theres enough information to show that saying simply its B.S isnt the best policy. Search the 9/11 thread, all been done.
(plus my posts are stupid long ... dear me, sorry Rocky!
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http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=...mp;postcount=30
Keep a look at this thread its a pre-alpha (no download yet) of new approach to AI observe and attack enemy for AI. Much more impressive than stock Arma2 AI. Above link is the main post describing situation and a youtube vid to show it.
Complete thread here:
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I still look at my boxes and the expansions
Thanks for that vid, I was actually expecting it to be a little longer and slightly more in depth than talking heads but anyway still classic. I must say Im now a firm Arma1/2 nut now since GRAW went a direction I wasn't into, but I still love the look of GR even when watching the in game video clips.
I noticed what I can only see as the first draft GR logo in the background on that vid ... glad they updated it
Such a classic. And its a shame that not even a 2009 sandbox sim like ARMA2 cant still get the death animation as good and as varied as a game from 2001 release.
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I agree Para.
But then millions wouldn't and also many who push the info about this year.
Loads about end of world, then loads about "new age" .. then loads about second coming ... (god or alien) ... lots n lots.
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To counter Calius, I answer with another question. Several of them, actually.
How can you counter someone with a question? Why counter anyone ... see its that wording thats strikes me as ego bashing. don't bash my belief otherwise I will counter you ... bit played out. Im not countering you or anything, im just putting some balance in the mix. As you ask anyway ...
1 - What would be the motive for some as-of-yet-unnamed party to explosively destroy the WTC, and yet still have aircraft crash into the buildings?Think of every event and law that has been passed since the event took place and look deeper into its future impact.
2 - Why go to the extra trouble of rigging a massive quantity of explosives in each tower, if you're going to have several religious nutjobs fly jets into them? Why not just blow them up? Surely, bombing the towers and blaming Al Qaeda would have been just as effective as flying jets into them.First of why would you go to that trouble if your going to have them fly into it, which would mean your were privvy to that happening.
Mainly becuase if it was bombed outright it would need to be scoped for evidence and also closed as a crime scene, a freak of nature no one could have imagined (*insurance claim*) collapse (that obliterates 70 percent of the content) keeps that nicely tucked away from proof. IE: bombing would be far easier to trace source than destroying most of it. Also bombs would not justify a collapse, that would simply damage it badly, becuase as you say, too clunky and massive quantity needed and not easy to implement.
Also worth noting that it was never treated like a proper crime scene and scene was shipped off sharpish, no questions asked, and in such a massive significant historical event.
3 - Do you have any understanding of how much explosives would be needed to level not one but both of the towers? I don't claim to hav that answer, but I do have enough training on explosives to know that the amount would be in the several tons. The sheer logistics of transporting and placing those explosives would certainly render your theory impossible. As has been asked prior in the thread, why didn't anyone apparently notice the materials? With all of the explosive materials and manpower that would be needed over the several weeks or months that would likely be needed, why didn't someone pipe up and say something?Again someone saying something, do you think that this is enough to dispel everything else? That gets asked lots. Think about it, you work at a company and there's construction going on (in 2 MASSIVE buildings I might add), floors empty with no one in them, workers come and go all the time in many work places. I ask you ... why would you after seeing construction comings and going suddenly run out screaming "they must be planting bombs!!!" ... get real. Also there's security and levels to security to take into consideration also, how many securoty question the bosses boss in life?
Noticing materials, well you wouldn't be strapping C4 against office pillars would you!? Blue prints of a buildings structure is not the same as someone working in the buildings. Whats to say you needed that much planted depending on the nature of the explosive devices anyway.
Thermite or mini nuke (or something a little bit more potent and manageable than clunky bombs, think of extreme temperatures and radiation source reported) but again common sense tells you that's all BS, which is expected. When it should be kept on the table becuase common explosives would not do what was done that day, much like 2 planes and some fuel wouldn't.
When thermite gets mentioned and mini nukes the shutter come down again on everyone thinking on the level of their own knowledge, remember there are technologies and people far more advanced behind the scenes.
This isn't something that should stretch the imagination, becuase already planes and fuel and the end result that day are 2 massive extremes. You know that common knowledge explosives wouldnt do it justice ... theres the shade of grey for you.
Im not suggesting you suddenly think becuase of a few reply posts all is explained, this event is one heavy complex event that has never happened like that in recent history so it shouldn't be looked at in simple common sense terms. Although the white wash "official" sources love to put it on those terms becuase thats an easy way to have people look the other way.
Thing is you can hear of all these fancy ideas of explosives and then shut it down and go back to no bombs, just planes, but then your stuck in that loop of, well if it was just planes that was the most potent fuel and largest plane I have ever seen, and in turn that becomes a questionable theory just as much. And thats what im on about ref questionable balance to it all.
You must also bear in mind that the WTC's basement was 80 feet deep. That's 80 feet of rubble beneath the surface, that otherwise would be located above ground.Yes but that's not 80 feet of the 2nd floor upwards, that's 80 ft the basement alone confined underground, and confined and obliterated too ... which, is odd as most of the buildings as they fell disbursed outward and as said before 70 percent fell to dust particles. It should be that 30 or so floors should be pancaked in a mess (going by the age old (un)popular mechanics "debunk" pancake *cough* "theory") and including the basements left overs up to 80 ft to ground level.
Also if amazingly a building (2 of them) did collapse into its 80 ft basement footprint then that's even more evidence of controlled demolition, these building were ######ing MASSIVE .. and I think that gets forgotten somewhat when people chat about it.
And again to put this end result into perspective ... this happened exactly the same mirror image on both of them. Which in turn brings me again back to being in the past discussing the end result of that day before it happened, people would shut down someone who said that's how it would end up.
I cannot say for "definite" what was used explosive wise, I simply cant. But its not really about getting things right and being right, or even having a personal ego battle to prove people wrong for some sad gain (as people do a lot in other forums) its about looking at the things that have never made sense and knowing that this alone means 100 percent it MUST be BS is realy not the best way to go. I never did it, I never wanted this ###### to happen. I didn't want to sit here questioning things etc, but when it lands on your doorstep you have too.
Stop thinking in lamens terms, common sense has restrictions ... and this gets used and is expected of people. Its not a religion, you wont become a cult odd ball if you look at info you don't agree with, just know you have an open view to bother really, other than B.S'ing outright. Im sure some of the 3000 slaughtered that day if they were here now would have question marks over their heads that's for damn sure.
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Armstrong & Miller are great, one of the best duo's on UK TV at the moment, isn't it blaad.
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This family or the parents have had some "reality TV" history with certain shows. I mean thats the most obvious thing of all.
How sad for your parents to go to such lengths sucked into the whole reality TV turd. They bought into that so much they pulled this stunt and the sons life was the "reality for tv" ... pretty sad and twisted when you think it through.
If it was me (I wouldn't even begin to try that crap) to make it worth while, I would have put a blow up doll inside wearing a strap-on with a swaztika on its head ... now that might have gave the reality TV more of an "edge".
I joke ... obviously.
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Keep thinking what you want, friend. If it makes you feel warm and fuzzy to think that something more happened besides some religious nuts crashing planes into buildings, then go right ahead.
Yes indeed I really get my rocks of with it
. In fact I don't .. at all. I just believe in some balance that's all.Shades of grey all the way.
And I hereby declare a classic example of the oh so perfectly designed left/right paradigm
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We are civil I hope ... I love you realy Para
Im not posting to prove people wrong point by point, that would go on forever. What I am trying to explain (or maybe understand) is how some people with the cut & dried "its BS" mind can realy get to that 100 percent conclusion when theirs so much to this that shows that particular stand point is nearly as mental as the other end of the spectrum "no plane theory" massive
At least some middle ground.Anyway D.S ... this is the thing, no one, NO ONE ... can "explain away" that part of it, 2 of them doing the same thing, obliterated down to maybe 2 floors becuase of hot fire leaving molten lava streams "under ground level" ... its nearly comedy. Thousands of degrees of temperature because of combustibles that were also obliterated to dust, and then smashes closed in a small pile (no air to raise a massive degree molten fire again afterwards) its nearly ludicrous to think thats some kind of natural event.
Also if nothing else you have the worlds worst and most unsafe buildings ever made going by what happened, who got put away for that?
And thats the reason of my post about discussions before the event took place, if someone did post this explanation of "thats how it will end up" I would love to be in a time capsule to watch that person get jumped on as a nutter in the thread. But now it has, its accepted "thats how it was" and now people argue about the end result that a day before the actual event would be nuts to conclude. Mainly because you must suck it up as thats what you saw that day, so there it must be explained that way, it simply must.
If the official explanation is trueThe massive "if" starts that one for sure.
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God damn in Para, that's it, you have single handedly sorted this whole mess out in one post, I commend you sir
Just small issue with pretty much everything you posted, can you tie your simple science into that day as absolute fact? It pretty much answers nothing in the grand scheme of the event, but on the fundamental side of things nothing you said was nuts and makes sense (see I agree on things, I don't twist anything).
Anyway it wasn't "deep within" any pile ... it was in the basement areas under the first floor (molten streams), and the huge pile of rubbles mass you speak of that should be piled high and smoldering all the way through (lets face it at least 10 stories high of pancaked floors tilting and large columns poking out end result of the way your example would exactly happen and I agree) ... well, wasn't there. 70 percent (ish) of its mass was dust particles ... your "theory" doesn't fit the end results (see we all have theories even the ones who think they are totally correct to say its all BS), it never will. Oh, both buildings mirrored each other "exactly" in terms of end result ... whats the chances of that I ask?
I would have expected to see toppling top sections crashing over the side (to a point), multiple floors in tact from ground up to at least 2-3 stories with the rest (a further 10-20 at least) like a pancaked slab on top (the rest of the mass of floors smashed together), all smoldering and some new fires and it very hot in certain areas smoldering. And the other building with something similar but certainly not the exact same look to its pattern. Maybe even one half in tact and its top titled and even the side slid out and the top off over its edge, that's what I would expect to see given your example. And this on the assumption both those building would be so crap they would end up doing what they did anyway.
Your not wrong with your point that in most situations works and makes total sense, this example however isn't your run of the mill end result, it never was, it never will be. What was seen was something out of Hollywood in terms of end result based on what hit "them".
So common sense based on simple science only goes so far, common sense is only the end result of what you have been taught and learned, and that changes all the time and isn't fool proof.
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I think the biggest threat a possible Alien encounter could pose is to completely shake the core of our beliefs. How would people react to find out, with proof, that almost everything with think we know, believe and hold close are all wrong?
Very good point.
Actually to throw another angle into the mix. Keep your eyes open about 2012 and this kind of thing in parallel, remember an external invasion would be the next "unkown enemy" of all time, perfect to group the masses world wide into a "one world belief system"
I think visitation etc is old hat and been done time over, but the push to have it like an invasion or to not let us know a thing about it and then land a biggy on everyone has its "global benefits"
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Well fair enough on the media front
Although the commons sense thing ... I have a thought on that.
Ok .... 9/11 has never happened, its September the 1st 2001 and we are here chatting via this forum about accidents or some extreme examples of attack etc. Someone posts ...
So, guys, if 2 jets both hit those twin towers what would you expect to happen?
Now ... what would common sense at that time be for your reply?
Next, someone chips into the thread and posts the following:
Well its pretty clear they will both collapse to dust to the ground floor, and the fuel from those jets would be enough to create near molten lava streams right at the bottom of both of them for more than a week afterward I guess.Now, remember .. its September the 1st 2001 .. your common sense would kick in, I wonder how that thread discussion would go?
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How exactly are you going to "do your own sniffing out?" It's doubtful at best that many of us have direct, first-hand access to important information; you have no way to personally verify the veracity of most of what you read on the internet. In the end, you're going to be relying on the observation and word of someone else to make your decisions.
Replace the word 'internet' from your point/quote and exchange it with 'mainstream media' .... and I can guess that's where you got your final versions from, plus your point still applies to yourself also with the word changed going by that logic. Like I say, no ones exempt.
Do I believe that bombs or such other devices went off at the WTC that morning, other than the planes hitting the towers? No, and honestly I have to question the critical thinking skills of folks who do.Again flip it the other way and the same could be said for you and where you got your information from to make your conclusions a firm "no" (referring back to quote logic number 1). So a catagoric "no" with everything thats come since that day in terms of footage, statements, more footage (un-edited .. not mainstream) and you are still going to say a firm 100 percent absolutely must be correct "no" .... ?
As I say take it from a filter box (TV) and your welcome to it. Then again your point can be taken and applied to all manner of knowledge source, so basically we are all screwed
BTW Para I know your views on it so we will always differ, but that's the game eh
Difference here is, I have stated there's lots of ###### on the net I would agree, not once have I said your views are wrong to be right about it all being nonsense. And THATS the rub ... those who are so absolutely correct and assured they are right to think everything is BS .. whereas others can see from more angles.
You mention "they" and "who they are" ... then find out ... but you wont because your logic (quote 1) shuts it down, and again using your logic I wouldn't open my eyes and use earmuffs just in case its all BS. Thats no fault but yours, and your welcome to have that view, but don't shut down on everything.
The ones who see a bigger picture shouldn't be kicked out of it, and that picture isn't a 16:9 LCD in the corner of the room as gospel either.
BTW i wasn't going to go into any specifics or anything because its been all said to death time ago with the original 9/11 thread.
I think my point mainly is that those who are so totally sure they are correct in thinking its ALL BS ... really should have at least a small check on where their informed optinion is coming from, IE ... who owns the source, who supports them, funding, paper trail ... and other such things. Ah, but I forgot its not first hand so its all crap
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My thoughts exactly. If The US Government went to such lengths to orchestrate 9/11, then why not finish the job, and plant some WMD's inside Iraq? As usual, this conspiracy theory relies upon ignorance of facts and/or unwillingness to think the situation through to sound plausible at all. All things being equal, the simplest explanation is probably true. Unless you're a conspiracy theory believer.
This is the fundamental issue ... all things are not and never have been equal from day 1. The "official" reports of events tied with all media "official" reports are not equal to everything else (witness statement/footage/reports .. the list goes on), hence the fact this event has so many questioning it more than many other events in history. The people who question and are witnesses aren't all mental cases just running around, I would love to see some people here see something that doesn't tally and have people laugh at them, no ones exempt.
Things are not as simple as bush doing anything, he sat ######ting himself in a classroom .. its not about those key people. Unless you really start to look at how the world it run then it will always be "weird" or "nutjob" .. but then that's a perfect and accepted response, in fact that's exactly what is needed and required.
Ive said this before there's a multitude of utter ###### on the net, but there are some very good information sources, unless you do your own sniffing out its game over. And I think with certain peoples responses going back to the original 9/11 thread nothing will change. A simple left/right thing going on, all fun and games
Fall Of The Republic
in "Off Topic" Posts
Posted
* cough * I did actually state:
That goes for the one in the very past also.
All I'm pointing out is how can you talk about even corruption and banks without it being political? Thats what I was really speaking about. So then going by that stance don't all posts and threads like this need to be either banned and deleted to help pre-empt an oh-so-easy discussion that will obviously get political in some way?
Its ok I don't suffer short memory syndrome so no need to repeat the point. But then shouldn't posts much like DS's recent ones be banned or locked on that basis? Or is it selective debate?
BTW you will probably notice I speak as I find I dont start threads like this (much) or even "that one" in the past. Not that I have issue with any of them or who does post it.
But ... again I agree that's for rocky I guess and taking even this thread O.T of itself.
Anyway thanks for posting D.S.