[ZA]Zenjant

Very nice, looking forward to it. Nice job Vhladd, and Rugg, keep it up...

Played the maps last night, must say I am very impressed with Vhladd's efforts. Some of the fog effects make the game pretty intense. Seeing Fort during the day enlightened us all. I like shooting Ruggbutt in the head. I advise everybody to DL this map pack, feeling like a n00b on the new maps is good times, having new content to play is even better times...

Although we haven't "matched" in GRAW2, the game is pretty much the same as the old GR in which we have hundreds of matches under our belts. There is always a way to beat the camper mentality. Sometimes it takes a couple of losses to figure out a strategy that will work, but that's how it goes. You learn with the losses. I am not going to push my opinion on games with re-spawns, or the fact that big red floating diamonds on people is not my cup of tea, but to complain that people are hiding in bushes, as if this gives them an instant win or a super power that can't be beat seems bizarre to me. If you can't find a counter to guys hiding in bushes, then maybe some of your strategy needs to be re-thought. I'm not bashing anybody for liking a game mode more then another, and I actually like mixing things up and playing some RvsA once in awhile, but to say that you are all about the RvsA because some teams camp, and you can't do anything about it seems like a problem with your squads tactics as opposed to a problem with the game mode.

I've tried to stay out of this thread, Papa you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I just don't see how somebody can say this game is not tactical. As far as gameplay for the money, I guess the difference between us is I bought this game for the multiplayer aspect, to play with my squadmates. I haven't even tried single player, played co-op for a night, and played 3 missions of campaign co-op. This game is by far the closest thing to the original GR that has been put out since 2001. I am a little perplexed by the lack of players online, and the amount of empty servers, but that is not to say that you cannot find a game to play. I refused to play GRAW1. I thought it was a POS. I have a feeling that if GRAW1 would have been better, or on the level of GRAW2, then there would be a lot more people playing the game now. As it stands many people were so turned off by GRAW1, they haven't even given GRAW2 a second thought. The shame is, that GRIN really made up for GRAW1 with this release. I am really impressed with what they have done, and how this game really feels like it's roots are from the original GR. Now we are all just waiting to see what GRIN does with this game next. I am keeping the faith that they will patch in some things that are dearly needed to keep us playing. I for one would be just fine with buying expansions to the game like EA has done with their BF series, if this is what it would take for GRIN to keep working making this game better. I'm sure my statement will draw some criticism, but this is honestly the way I feel.

In the original GR the replay could be viewed at any moment, from any players eyes. So for example you could look through the shooters eyes, and see him shoot somebody, then you could go back and watch the exact same moment through the eyes of the guy that got shot, or anybody else for that matter. Fraps only records what the Fraps guy is watching. So you can get a replay of the shooter if you are in death cam watching him. That is it. Not good enough as far as I'm concerned. Way too much can go unnoticed unless you happen to be watching and recording some punk at the moment he gives away the fact that he is using some sort of cheat. The replay gave us the proof that somebody was a cheater, and the entire community could watch a posted video of the cheater in action without any doubt that he was wrongly accused. In my experience cheating goofs will never admit they were cheating, even with undeniable evidence being slapped on top of them. See the thing is GRIN could make a PB that counters the hacks that are out there, but then the hackers would eventually get around the new PB...it is what they do. With the original replay system we had a tool to battle this vicious circle, and weed out the "professional" hacker. I relied on it many times to keep our server protected, and our ladder legit. Like I have said in previous posts, if something just doesn't feel right, or seems unexplainable, you knew you had a replay to fall back on to figure out what exactly was going on.

I am talking about needing replays for competitive play. I understand what you are saying about a guy being able to just change his name, and we in fact were able to discover a couple of guys that did so, because they just couldn't keep their mouths shut forever, mentioned it to somebody they thought they could trust and they were banned again. The rule on TCZ was if one of your members got caught cheating, your squad was done from the ladder. Didn't matter if squad claimed they "didn't know", that squad was done. Keep your own house clean before you come to mine was the idea. This is why ZA is an "invite only" squad since the beginning. Our guys were hand picked after playing on our server for a month, sometimes two. You will never see the message "ZA is recruiting", because if you want in, you must pass the "time test". Some have called it elitist, so be it, I just want to keep my house clean. Replays were, and are so important to this game. By far the best method of having getting proof for all to see if somebody is cheating. Like I said in my first post it is not 100%, because some have mastered the art of cheating as PersianImmortal has pointed out. The thing is if you have a replay backing you up, you have a much better chance of catching the cheater doing something that you would NEVER see without one. I am all for some kind of PB, but if I was given the choice of PB or replays, I would choose replays in a split second.

I have to say even the best anti-cheat system can obviously be beat. It does serve it's purpose to a limited extent, but by far the best method of catching cheaters is by replay. In the [Ghost Recon] I personally spent hours upon hours going over any match we played where one or more of my guys would be questioning something that happened in game. Caught a lot of cheaters this way on The Combat Zone, which in turn eliminated them from competing on our ladder, and subsequently were found cheating and kicked from other ladders in the GR community. Of course there were times where the replay couldn't provide proof of any hack, but confirmed suspicions, which ultimately lead to a closer eye being put on certain teams, or at least members of certain teams...no matter how 'smart" the hacker thought he was being, with a replay, one careless move like following people when they are on the other side of walls or hills, or making some kill through leaves where there is no way to see the enemy would be caught on the replay, and available for all to see it actually happening through the eyes of the cheater. I do not understand why GRIN did not include this feature in the game. Fraps is great and all, but how is it going to work in a match where you cannot watch a replay through the eyes of the enemy? Going to make it extremely difficult to get any solid proof on what was really going on. Looks like at this time the community is left to fend itself from cheaters. I'm not sure how the ladders are going to function though, unless neutral moderators are in the game using Fraps and recording both teams. Problem still exists that the replay will only be what the Mod records, what he is seeing at the time will be the entire replay, instead of being able to watch what happened from any player in the game at any given time. I guess I really don't understand why a game developed in 2001 had this feature, and yet a game released 6 years later in 2007 does not. I have no idea how hard it would be to implement such a feature in a patch, but it sure would go a long way in keeping people playing with a piece of mind that when something just doesn't add up, you can rely on the replay to give you some answers.

Let me add that we do not have any hard feelings toward BDA, or any of their members. As I stated before, I do respect that Viiiper didn't come out and point the finger at my squad. I also understand why they took the actions they did, it is unfortunate for us that the screenshot capture didn't work the way it is intended, but I am more than confident that this will all get worked out in time. Funny thing is, when I read about the rumoured screenshot capture months ago I was really excited...another tool we could use to catch the cheater population that will pop up in GRAW2. Sure didn't expect to be defending my squad over it. I still think it is a great tool, just needs to be fixed so it works properly.

Are you saying they where cheating somehow, or did you just ban them because you couldn't get a screen shot? I don't see how you could consider banning them. We have not accused anyone is cheating. The point of the matter is that until this issue resolved, the abillity to take a reliable screen shot, be it a port issue, a operating system issue, a problem with the admin function, or a blocker, there will be ethical questions surrounding individuals when a screen shot can not be taken. We are attempting to provide a server that everyone can enjoy and BDA will allow those individuals back once this is resolved. If you do not care the rules on our server, don't play on it. See the problem is we DO care about the rules. The thing is, we had nothing to do with breaking them. It is pretty obvious that the remote screenshot is not functioning 100% properly. I understand you have no idea who we are, but let me assure you none of us joined your server with any kind of blocking system in play. I actually DL'd it, installed, patched, and joined your server for my first game of GRAW 2. There was no "install the screenshot blocker" step anywhere in the process. We are also committed to helping find out what is causing this to happen, we have a temporary dedicated server up now, and our real dedicated should be up within the week. We would also be willing to help BDA in anyway throughout this process, believe me whatever it takes, as we would like to remove any "ethical" questions surrounding [ZA], square brackets and all.

Ok we went and did some testing of our own by putting up servers, and taking the screenshots. Something must be messed up with it because we got different results. Wasn't able to get a screenshot on one guy with the [ZA]Tag. (Not one of the 3 from the BDA server) Got that guy to take the tag off, and was able to get the screen when they re-joined without it. Got him to put the tag back on, and then was able to get the screen with the tag on when he re-joined. Then another member put a server up, and didn't have problem getting everybodies screenshots with the tags on. So we are at a loss, something is screwy but we couldn't figure it out, or replicate it in any way. Maybe the map and/or settings of TDM/RVSA/Hamburger hill come into play as well, not sure. My question is did the admin (Viiiper) on that server try multiple times to get the screen, or was it once? Also did you get the remote screen by typing /screenshot [ZA]Zenjant, or was it /screenshot ID#?

Strange, patched fine on mine, and I also DL'd it from direct2drive. Maybe unisntall, and re-install? Good luck man.

Hmmm Viper could it have been me and my guys from Zen Archery? Our tags are [ZA], we were playing on the BDA server earlier and all got kicked one after another. When we tried to rejoin, we were all greeted by the message that we had been banned. To our dismay... My squad does not cheat, we were one of the [Ghost Recon] squads playing on The Combat Zone, and actually spent a lot of time investigating, and catching squads, and getting them kicked off our ladder when we compiled enough evidence that proved they were cheating. We actually refused to play GRAW I becuase there was no anti-cheat among other things. I know the old school GR players can vouch for us. Anyways it would be great to know if our squared brackets are messing something up, the BDA server was the first one we joined since installing the game, and we certainly didn't install anything to "block" a screenshot, as we have nothing to hide. I would like to add that it was good of you not to name the clan until you got confirmation about the square brackets, but it really seems like it must be us. The only other thing we all did the same was buy the game and DL it from direct to drive, but i'm pretty sure many did. Might be a good idea to have somebody from your clan to make a name with [ZA]Test, (we have no space after the bracket) and see if the same thing happens...obviously if it does or doesn't, please post here, so we can clear this mess up.

Yeah my DL is almost complete. It was pretty slow, got it between 85-250 KB/sec. Strange thing is I have two buddies who are DLing it at over 800 KB/sec right now, so maybe they changed things up since I started...