Sleepdoc-iBeta
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Posts posted by Sleepdoc-iBeta
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Good to know we're in agreement (for the most part)!oh quite contrary. That's an obvious answer. UBISOFT has NO PR department. thing is, if you wanna sell a product, you gotta get the word out is what I'm saying.
Wait? I'm confused... You mean you agree with Wolfsong? No wait.. You mean wolfsong agees with you? no... wait... I mean.. wolfsong agrees with anything? I mean something some one else said? wait... You mean to tell me .......
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I execpt GRAW2 will be fun upon release.
I expect there will be features we don't like
I expect there will be an abscense of features we wanted
I expect there to be bugs.
I expect GRiN will work diligently, as they did before, to clear those bugs up over time.
I expect to have lots of fun no matter what.
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I'm glad to see this issue take on such interest. I hope the good folks at GRiN took the time to upgrade the enemy (and friendly) AI in these ways.
The simple fact is that all these types of AI enhancements are possible in code. They just need to be designed for upfront, committmed to, coded and tested. Period. no magic here. I only need to play a little bit of FarCry to recall just how interesting AI can be.
Pretty much every aspect discussed here has been seen in one game or another. The trick is to get most of these behaviors and abilities (like blinded by smoke) into this game.
Here is to hopeful thinking.
Lets all return to this thread after relase, and discuss how all these AI elements turned out.
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Agreed. The speculation and confusion are bad and generally lead to gamers not trusting the publisher and/or the developer.
I believe that noone on this Forum trust Ubisoft for a long time.
Although I don't hate UBI, I certainly understand that their PR department, in conjunction with their Marketing department, need to take some courses in communication skills. They are pretty bad...
But UBI continues to work in the genre of tactical shooters and tac sims. Maybe not as tightly as we would like and maybe not wit hte commitment level to NORg that we would like, but hey. They need to achieve profit and mass appeal. At least they are hanging in there. Actually, I'm amazed that they didn't drop the PC tac sim thing all together. especailly in the period of the newly released Next Gens. I don't love UBI. but I certainly dont hate them.
And as faras Trust goes, my trust is in GRiN. Not UBI. So no matter what UBI says, I just follow the words and previus efforts of GRiN and that is more than enough to keep me waiting for GRAW2
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From what I remember of the 360 version (been forever since i've played), when you use assault the drone drops lower to actually be able to detect enemy on the ground. Hitting recon brings it back up. If you leave it down in assault too long the enemy will actually shoot it down and destroy it and you can't use it anymore.
That's a crappy drone
No zoom?!
LOL. good point Hockey!
I can still see one reason you might need to lower altitude rather than zoom. Angular line of sight. Some things (like looking under overhangs) can not be seen simply via zoon. You would actually need to go to a lower altitude to see around and under certain things.
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' date='May 25 2007, 12:40 AM' post='466772']
By the way, that is/would be coolYou want to sit in a bush, have an AI walk 5M passed you like GR1?Yes. This would be nice. And exactly as Cangaroo said, making trees look like opaque objects to the AI would be a simplistic solution, but a better one than we currently have.
And although I have not coded in many years, I can't believe that creating an AI that reacts more slowly or spends some time looking for you when you kick a can in the dark rather than just magically knows where you are is that hard. It just takes design upfront, and a commitment of the resources to work it out. But like all titles, money and time and resources are in limited supply. so you do what you can.
But certainly, improving these issues from their status in GRAW1 is not out of the grasp of a proven talent like GRiN.
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Replying to Why would a Drone need Attack and Recon options ?
It is not out of the realm of possibilities that they intend on hanging some Hellfires or Mavericks on the Cypher
____OT
Is that what recon is about? In a Ghost Recon franchised game? Really?After all, that is what recon is.Depending on dedicated satellites (regardless of its ephemeris or your location) and UAVs (regardless of noise, power resources), with incredible (read impossible) IFF capabilities?
Whether or not these abilities are available in the next decade (and thereby deserving inclusion in a game purporting realism) does not change the fact the soldiers will still have to low-crawl up to a over-watch position with a rifle, a radio, and a set of binoculars, and get down to the business of target acquisition, you know, recon.
I'd like to see this in the next installment of Ghost Recon.
Geez NoQuarter. Try to keep it together. Its a game with a future tech theme. Nothing more. Nothing less.
I'm sorry your beloved GR1 style of play has fallen prey to this new concept in Ghost recon gaming. And I personally and publically apologize for liking it ... alot. Sincerely.
But whether you like it or not, Recon via technology is still recon.
I hope for your sake and the rest of the [GR]-play faithful that Black foot or others deliver what you want. What you crave. What you so dearly miss. But I'm grooving on GRAW by GRiN.
But here is a little secret. I'll play that too and love it too.
I think the real issue is that consumers often think that just becuase they loved an old IP like GR1, that they somehow have ownership in it. And they get insensed when the real owners decide to move it into some new direction. I for one am just happy that they did not fully succumb to the total console pressures and still managed to give us a tactical shooter that is first person. But hey. That's just me.
Best of luck to you NoQuarter..
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As we all have come to learn, some of the most disheartening moments in GRAW1 was when the AI had unfair, unrealistic advantages that simply made a situation untenable.
The 2 most famous unfair advantages held by enemy AI were ....
#1. Their ability to see through the heavily leaved sections of trees and shoot accurately at you while you could not see through trees at all
#2. The uncanny ability for mexican soldiers to see in pitch darkness better than you could see when you had night vision goggles.
Did you guys try to give the ghosts back their advantage with night vision and at least equalize the "see through trees" thing?
Sleepdoc
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Interesting Dporter. I like the idea of having to actually weigh the risk to benefot of a closer look. After all, that is what recon is. The act of looking closer, but not to close, or you might catch a bullet in the backside.
Time will tell. I hope you are right dporter.
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Can anyone say
?Hehe. Well. It would be pretty hard to argue with you there m'lady. But you have to admit. Our discussion is more interesting than a date guessing game.
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If you look at this image below (I found at "Worthplaying.com"), I can't help but wonder why the drone "Full command view"" has a menu option within it that clearly shows an "ASSAULT"" and "RECON" option. You will see those options on either side of the move, stop and cancel orders.
I guess they could just be "remnants" of the normal background for soldier orders, and not really be clickable in this window. But that seems odd.
Hmmm. The "Full Command view" system, at least as it pertains to the cross com view through the UAV, remains unclear to me
Moderator edit. Please link to large images.
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I think that was the waypoint for the drone.
That would certainly make sense in the context of "The UAV can only give orders to advance the UAV". But it would have been nice to give advancement orders to teammates via the UAV.
Yeah but isn't that what the satelite map is for?
Now when I think about it, the drone is actually only useful for finding enemies with
I think it's more useful in the 360 version since there your satelite map is only a wireframe map. In the 360 version you can also use the drone for finding cover, paths etc.
I'm sure you are right Hockey.
I will admit that I rarely used the Satellite view to string together complex advance movements. I found the interface a bit clunkity (like when you tried to click a button, but a small overshoot with the mouse pointer would suddenly cuase the image to start rapidly scrolling ...argggg
)Once in a while, if I found a nice flank procedure I could setup which only required 2 movements at the most, I might have used it. but even then, I never got totally comfortable. I hope they have tweaked it a bit so that it works beter for me this time (or maybe I just need to tweak myself so I work better this time?)
I often relied upon the in game order system for incremental advancements of my teammates with the Satellite view used for more of a situational awareness tool (where are bad guys ... where are blinf spot vulnerabilities ... where are snipers etc). Often, of course, satellite failed me as it is a line of sight tech and bad guys can be hiding under overhangs etc.
As a squad leader who played a lot of mission coop, I developed procedurs over time that kept me saf and used the tools at my disposal pretty well. I'm sure I will develop some new apporaches. But for now, I'm just trying to imagine what they might be as I try to understand the true implementation of these new features.
The procedure for cuatious advance in the presence of a UAV would be to scout out enemy and cover. Possibly even place the UAV in a position to be able to see at future advances in the next sequence
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I think that was the waypoint for the drone.
That would certainly make sense in the context of "The UAV can only give orders to advance the UAV". But it would have been nice to give advancement orders to teammates via the UAV.
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It is to design tons of amazing new maps and missions with multiple, non linear objectives (assuming they fixed that bug in tehir new SDK) using whatever the new tools they intend to release.
That is already possible in GRAW1 as long as you make a real Coop or SP mission. So I would guess it's in there.
Hmmm. If this is correct, then why have I not seen a single mission coop stlye mission made in the mod community?
It was my understanding that the mission coop type missions had an objective accomplished bug that prevented singple player type missions from beng created.
Please explain.
Play "the longest yard" out of the mod section. It's [GR] style. Objective is to reach the end of the road. On the way there are other "obejectives as you can't get past a few snipers, RPG's, Tanks and choppers without killing them.
I think I see the confusion here. I am talking about the ability to make "mission coop" style missions (the single player type that can be played in coop mode also). Not [GR] coop missions. Mission coop is distinguished from [GR] by its ability to have 3 AI freindlies go with you, and issue orders to them (or issue orders to their human replacements). It is further distinguished by access to such elements as control over the UAV, air strikes and even the ability to use the satellite view and tactical mission map. It is this type of mission, with objectives, that I am hoping will be creatable by modders. All these elements are non existent in [GR] coop.
Is this hope unfounded? I could have sworn that there was a discussion at one point that these "mission coop" style missions (sinple player type missions) were not possible to be created in GRAW 1 PC but modders should be able to create these in GRAW 2 PC.
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I don't think you can control Beasley through Brown, but I clarified the rest anyway
So does this mean you can only control the UAV through the UAV? in other words, can we not control the AI friendlies through the UAV view?
I thought i saw a "move here" spiraling ground ring while in the UAV view (from the movie)
I guess only time will tell.
Sleepdoc
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It is to design tons of amazing new maps and missions with multiple, non linear objectives (assuming they fixed that bug in tehir new SDK) using whatever the new tools they intend to release.
That is already possible in GRAW1 as long as you make a real Coop or SP mission. So I would guess it's in there.
Hmmm. If this is correct, then why have I not seen a single mission coop stlye mission made in the mod community?
It was my understanding that the mission coop type missions had an objective accomplished bug that prevented singple player type missions from beng created.
Please explain.
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That is a very good point, but it sure is gonna suck if the AI is equipped with an RPG, AND if they are skilled with it.
LOL. Yea..... a freind of mine told me he thought the MULE would be an RPG magnet. but you know what. I think strategies for its use will emerge.
for example, leave it in the rear when recon stealth is the requirement. But when it comes time to cross and open field that you already know is unavoidable, move it up through areas you think you have alrady cleared. If your already spotted and pinned down, and you need to cross an open area, i would rather have teh mule at my side than not. It might actually take the hit and save my life. time will tell how they implement the enemy AI reaction to the MULE adn teh hardness/survivability of the darn thing.
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On fileplanet download manager it said :Est.date available:Wed,Jun 20,2007.
RPG...
Quit worrying about relwase dates rpghard. Your job is **not** to play. It is to design tons of amazing new maps and missions with multiple, non linear objectives (assuming they fixed that bug in tehir new SDK) using whatever the new tools they intend to release. If I so much as catch you even reading the key card your in big trouble fella. Start designing now.
LOL. Keep those maps (and hopefully whole coop missions with objectives) coming when GRAW2PC comes out. We are all counting on you. your last stuff added months of great play to GRAW1. I think if it were not for you and a couple of others, the game would have ended for me a few months earlier. You certainly got better and better over time creating fair fights and setting up enemies in "non video game" types of ways. Some of your maps are the best I have ever played in [GR].
So like i was saying. Don't you worry about playing.....
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' date='May 23 2007, 07:42 PM' post='466561']
Or, do they mean that when you turn on a lightswitch the lamp turns on instantly? Both are "real time lighting."
LOL. You should apply for a marketing job with a major publisher. Your ability to manage "SPIN" is uncanny.
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The question now is will the mule be worth anything with far smaller maps? As it is I've never used all my ammo in any given SP/COOP/[GR] map/round.
It seems that you may have missed the point of the Mule.
Although replenishment of ammo may not be helpful in a smaller map, have you ever found yourself pinned down by a unexpected sniper or tank or Heli ? I have. Now, it seems, the player can change weapons. For example, grab an anti tank weapon or a sniper rifle (which you did not initially equip yourself with .... oops) so you can counter snipe, even though you entered the mission without the sniper rifle. This has very strategic implications.
Additionally, I love to play coop slow and tactically. Have you ever found yourself moving cautiously, and then suddenly found yourself and your squad in a position where you need to cross some dangerous open ground lacking adequate cover? Those moments before you move across the open field are earily quiet. Do you know those moments? I do. As squad leader, it would be very interesting indeed to use my mule as "mobile cover". I hope to learn how to arrange my team around it in sectors, and then move along with it across such intimidating terrain.
I think the tactical possabilities of the MULE, depending on how they implement its function, is very interesting indeed.
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GRAW1 was strike one against Grin, But GRAW2 should be a deep drive into center field.
I just don't get this opinion. when GRAW released, it had issues. But it was fun. I enjoyed coop and single player for a few months. And yes, I had to learn to work around the freindly AI. But once i got them on a shorter leash, they performed quite admirably. then I shelved it. After 1.35, I played it for 6 more months straight, and loved almost every MP mode and re-did campaign and started playing all those new [GR] maps that started popping up. I became a nightly TDM player and never got bored. The good players and good squads kept their few servers alive and theirplay was fair and excellent (thx BDA and Xtreme eagles etc)
Is your opinion still based on a comparison to its predecessor (GR1) ? or are you saying that even after 1.35, you could not give GRAW1 a high mark as a stand alone product no matter what its heritage was?
Having not played the original, but having played all the R6 games and other attemtps at tactical shooters, I found GRAW1 (v1.35) refreshing, exciting, new, gritty and suspenseful.
Jason O'Campo's reviews at Gamespot are spot off when it comes to the shooter Genre. He gave vegas a 8.9 for crying our loud and lockdown an 8.0 !!!. I would easily give GRAW v1.35 an 8.5
I'm genuinely curious Papa6. what would you give GRAW1PC v1.35?
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I do not think you can give player #2 an order while looking through player #2's eyes. I think you can only give player #3 an order while looking through player #3's eyes. See the difference?
You lost me there.
OOPS!!! Mega typo.
It was supposed to say ...
I do not think you can give player #2 an order while looking through player #3's eyes. I think you can only give player #3 an order while looking through player #3's eyes. See the difference?[/
You can turn the camera 360 degrees, just like in RvsA.
interesting response. I never thought about that. How do you know this about singple player though? are you guessing? Its a nice idea though.
According to PC Gamer SWE, who had a visit at GRIN, the feature will also exist in the Singleplayer mode. I double checked it be sure. You have a full screen buddy cam (as in GRAW) but it can be turned 360 degrees, you can give orders and tag enemies.
- As teamleader this means that you can control your teammates in detail and give them specivic orders.
Quote from the IGN preview.
One of the most intriguing and downright handy features in PC GRAW 2 is the implementation of the Cross-Com 2.0. More specifically, the new ability to issue commands to individual team members and see the action through their eyes, via the Cross-Com. While you can't actually take direct control of them and fire shots yourself, it's still an incredibly useful feature, especially when your squad mates are spread across the battlefield. In fact, the feature makes GRAW 2 feel strangely like an RTS - and yes, it's entirely possible to complete a mission by issuing orders to your team-mates, without ever getting your own hands dirty.Quote from the Bit-Tech preview.
This whole recon mode would be far less useful if it weren’t for another new feature. As commander you’ll now be able to hook straight into a controllable camera of your squad mates’ helmets. Not only that but you’ll now be able to issue commands direct from the camera. Want your guy to move in the direction you're looking? Easy peasy, simply right click, select the option and he’ll start heading there. The developers even went as far to say that with this new, enhanced ability to control squad mates, you could actually play the game like an RTS and not even go round shooting people yourself.Source (ignore the pretty pictures, it's a PC preview).
Hockey,
Unfortuntely, your sources do not clarify the point I am asking. They tip toe up to it, but no dance.
And of course, my typo in the original post only confused the issue. Cangaroo restated it best.
I want to look through Brown's eyes and control Beasley. Not just control Brown through Brown's eyes. This ability (or not) remains unclear.
My guess from what I saw in the videos is that I can only control Brown while looking through Brown's Cross -com and no one else.
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' date='May 23 2007, 12:20 PM' post='466485']
For example, if you are reconnoitering an area through Brown's cross-com and you spot a tango, you may want to order Beasly to engage said tango for a number of reasons:
Exactly Cangaroo. This is one of my main poiints. I **WILL** want to do this. but as I watched to video, I did not see any mechansim or interface by which to do this. In order for this to be possible (as I would imagine theinterface), you would need to see some sort of mouse scroll list of the other AI names (just as a squad led would see them) while in cross com view. I never saw that in any cross com view. When the video showed cross com view, I saw some instruction to press some button to give order, but not a list of the other players.
I do not think you can give player #2 an order while looking through player #2's eyes. I think you can only give player #3 an order while looking through player #3's eyes. See the difference? I wish the former were true but I think it is the latter.
You can turn the camera 360 degrees, just like in RvsA.
interesting response. I never thought about that. How do you know this about singple player though? are you guessing? Its a nice idea though.
Same for the Drone. they refer to it being a "Full Comand view". I was hoping I could look through the eyes of the dorne, and then tell Brown and some other guy to go here and go there. I do not see any interface within the video that implies that I can give orders to Brown while looking through the eyes of the drone.
Same here. Why would you when you have the TacMap all the time?
Why? Really? The tac map doesnt show you things the same way the ground level or drone level view does. You cannot tell exact detail about cover or corners like you can from other, lower views. I think cangaroo answered that question so well I need not re-explain. He hit the nail on the head.
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When the SP movie first came out and I saw the representation of a "Full Command View - Teammate" and a "Full Command View - Drone", i Think I may have misunderstood what this meant.
I hoped that it meant that I could enter the cross com view of, for example, Brown, and give a movement order to someone other than Brown. I see no interface in the movie to make this possible.
Watching the movie closer, it appears that When i am squad leader and looking through Brown's eyes (via his cross com), I can only give orders to Brown. Is this correct? And if it is, this has limitations unless there is something i dont understand......
So if I send Brown forward to a position of cover facing west, but I want him to turn and cover east, how can I accomplish this? Do you see the issue? If I am looking through his cross com generally west, am I limited to cross com orders in his current field of view ONLY???
What am i missing here? How do I get brown to look in another direction, such as east, if he is already looking west?
Same for the Drone. they refer to it being a "Full Comand view". I was hoping I could look through the eyes of the dorne, and then tell Brown and some other guy to go here and go there. I do not see any interface within the video that implies that I can give orders to Brown while looking through the eyes of the drone.
Splain me sumsing lucy..... I beez con-foo-sed
Gamespy worried
in GR:AW 2 (PC) - General Discussion
Posted
Oops!.. LOL. I guess I confused you and Papa.
I need to spend more time playing and less time in the forums i guess!