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Game Piracy "astounding"

#1 User is offline   Rocky Icon Posted 21 January 2008 - 02:15 PM

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From 402blogspot.

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They Wonder Why People Don't Make PC Games Any More

On another PC related note, we pulled some disturbing numbers this past week about the amount of PC players currently playing Multiplayer (which was fantastic). What wasn't fantastic was the percentage of those numbers who were playing on stolen copies of the game on stolen / cracked CD keys of pirated copies (and that was only people playing online).

Not sure if I can share the exact numbers or percentage of PC players with you, but I'll check and see; if I can I'll update with them. As the amount of people who pirate PC games is astounding. It blows me away at the amount of people willing to steal games (or anything) simply because it's not physical or it's on the safety of the internet to do.

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#2 User is offline   krise madsen Icon Posted 21 January 2008 - 02:46 PM

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Question is, how many would have bought a legal copy if they had no choice...

(and no, I don't have the anwer to that one, only that the "each illegal copy is a copy not sold" is way off the mark).

To me, it's also somewhat remarkable that despite one draconian copy protection scheme after another, pirating is still so prominent.

I would hope that streaming games live (at which point there will no longer be any such thing as separate "console games" and "PC games") some time in the future (a glimpse of which can be seen in this thread) offer a solution.

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#3 User is offline   WhiteKnight77 Icon Posted 23 January 2008 - 12:15 AM

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People get all up in arms over PC game piracy, but completely forget all about console game piracy. Funny that id apparently is moving to console only games due to piracy and that is a bigger area of such theft. :wacko:

#4 User is offline   Cpl Ledanek Icon Posted 23 January 2008 - 03:06 AM

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View PostWhiteKnight77, on Jan 22 2008, 06:15 PM, said:

People get all up in arms over PC game piracy, but completely forget all about console game piracy. Funny that id apparently is moving to console only games due to piracy and that is a bigger area of such theft. :wacko:

...there's a urban legend of a 4-story building in Bangkok that sells nothing but pirated consoles and DVD movies...
I was only there for authentic pad thai chicken :whistle:
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#5 User is offline   Sup Icon Posted 23 January 2008 - 04:38 AM

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View PostWhiteKnight77, on Jan 22 2008, 07:15 PM, said:

People get all up in arms over PC game piracy, but completely forget all about console game piracy. Funny that id apparently is moving to console only games due to piracy and that is a bigger area of such theft. :wacko:



It's actually not the same.

A huge number of pirated discs are in china and other asian countries, yeah, but that doesn't effect the numbers in america and europe hardly at all. Or japan, most likely. Whereas downloads definitely do. The business ramifications don't hinge solely on the number of pirated discs changing hands. Actually, i'd say resalers of used games and rentals have a *much* larger effect on sales here in the US and in most of europe, although i could be wrong.

Serellan, on Apr 6 2006, 11:13 PM, said:

Stop the divisions people...band together and say what you want from GAMES, not platforms.


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#6 User is offline   ROCO*AFZ* Icon Posted 23 January 2008 - 11:40 PM

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Why get it on cd when there are plenty of emulators to run it on everything from a Mobile phone to a pc.

The emulators are free and legal but the roms are not, but i bet the piracy is even higher then the pc's

Especially on older consoles like Nintendo, super nintendo, sega and such.
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#7 User is offline   Sup Icon Posted 24 January 2008 - 05:43 AM

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View PostROCO*AFZ*, on Jan 23 2008, 06:40 PM, said:

Why get it on cd when there are plenty of emulators to run it on everything from a Mobile phone to a pc.



Not true at all.

Don't even bother 360/ps3, just try to find a working ps2 emulator, or an xbox emulator, or a gcn emulator.

Hell, I'd settle for an n64 emulator that would work with every game, the best one i've found runs about 1/20.

Serellan, on Apr 6 2006, 11:13 PM, said:

Stop the divisions people...band together and say what you want from GAMES, not platforms.


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#8 User is offline   ROCO*AFZ* Icon Posted 24 January 2008 - 06:07 AM

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View PostSup, on Jan 24 2008, 12:43 AM, said:

View PostROCO*AFZ*, on Jan 23 2008, 06:40 PM, said:

Why get it on cd when there are plenty of emulators to run it on everything from a Mobile phone to a pc.



Not true at all.

Don't even bother 360/ps3, just try to find a working ps2 emulator, or an xbox emulator, or a gcn emulator.

Hell, I'd settle for an n64 emulator that would work with every game, the best one i've found runs about 1/20.



Ps2

http://www.ps2-emulator.com/


;)
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#9 User is offline   Sup Icon Posted 25 January 2008 - 07:20 PM

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View PostROCO*AFZ*, on Jan 24 2008, 01:07 AM, said:

View PostSup, on Jan 24 2008, 12:43 AM, said:

View PostROCO*AFZ*, on Jan 23 2008, 06:40 PM, said:

Why get it on cd when there are plenty of emulators to run it on everything from a Mobile phone to a pc.



Not true at all.

Don't even bother 360/ps3, just try to find a working ps2 emulator, or an xbox emulator, or a gcn emulator.

Hell, I'd settle for an n64 emulator that would work with every game, the best one i've found runs about 1/20.



Ps2

http://www.ps2-emulator.com/


;)


... it hasn't had a news update since 2003 and it runs two games -- blade 2 (they made a game?) and mortal kombat 5.



However, did a little digging and found a legitimate ps2 emulator, guess i was wrong:

http://www.pcsx2.net/

actually runs a handful of games -- although the list is still pretty horrible.

Serellan, on Apr 6 2006, 11:13 PM, said:

Stop the divisions people...band together and say what you want from GAMES, not platforms.


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#10 User is offline   Serellan Icon Posted 01 March 2008 - 01:29 AM

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I've wanted to respond to this for a while, and now I have something relevant. Michael Fitch (an RSE vet), CD at THQ, posted his thoughts about the closing of Iron Lore (which also contained an RSE vet).

The general gist in relation to this thread is that the financial impact of "commercial" pirating (i.e., makeing unauthorized reproductions of games and selling them) in countries like China and the Phillipeans, while an impact, is generally local to the market. Yes, it might bleed onto Ebay or into big cities, but as a console developer you don't have to worry that Mr. Joe Q public is going to search out pirated content.

However, as Michael comments, it can have a drastic impact on PC production (among other things):

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Piracy. Yeah, that's right, I said it. No, I don't want to re-hash the endless "piracy spreads awareness", "I only pirate because there's no demo", "people who pirate wouldn't buy the game anyway" round-robin. Been there, done that. I do want to point to a couple of things, though.

One, there are other costs to piracy than just lost sales. For example, with TQ, the game was pirated and released on the nets before it hit stores. It was a fairly quick-and-dirty crack job, and in fact, it missed a lot of the copy-protection that was in the game. One of the copy-protection routines was keyed off the quest system, for example. You could start the game just fine, but when the quest triggered, it would do a security check, and dump you out if you had a pirated copy. There was another one in the streaming routine. So, it's a couple of days before release, and I start seeing people on the forums complaining about how buggy the game is, how it crashes all the time. A lot of people are talking about how it crashes right when you come out of the first cave. Yeah, that's right. There was a security check there.

So, before the game even comes out, we've got people bad-mouthing it because their pirated copies crash, even though a legitimate copy won't. We took a lot of ###### on this, completely undeserved mind you. How many people decided to pick up the pirated version because it had this reputation and they didn't want to risk buying something that didn't work? Talk about your self-fulfilling prophecy.

One guy went so far as to say he'd bought the retail game and it was having the exact same crashes, so it must be the game itself. This was one of the most vocal detractors, and we got into it a little bit. He swore up and down that he'd done everything above-board, installed it on a clean machine, updated everything, still getting the same crashes. It was our fault, we were stupid, our programmers didn't know how to make games - some other guy asked "do they code with their feet?". About a week later, he realized that he'd forgotten to re-install his BIOS update after he wiped the machine. He fixed that, all his crashes went away. At least he was man enough to admit it.

So, for a game that doesn't have a Madden-sized advertising budget, word of mouth is your biggest hope, and here we are, before the game even releases, getting bashed to hell and gone by people who can't even be bothered to actually pay for the game. What was the ultimate impact of that? Hard to measure, but it did get mentioned in several reviews. Think about that the next time you read "we didn't have any problems running the game, but there are reports on the internet that people are having crashes."

Two, the numbers on piracy are really astonishing. The research I've seen pegs the piracy rate at between 70-85% on PC in the US, 90%+ in Europe, off the charts in Asia. I didn't believe it at first. It seemed way too high. Then I saw that Bioshock was selling 5 to 1 on console vs. PC. And Call of Duty 4 was selling 10 to 1. These are hardcore games, shooters, classic PC audience stuff. Given the difference in install base, I can't believe that there's that big of a difference in who played these games, but I guess there can be in who actually payed for them.

Let's dig a little deeper there. So, if 90% of your audience is stealing your game, even if you got a little bit more, say 10% of that audience to change their ways and pony up, what's the difference in income? Just about double. That's right, double. That's easily the difference between commercial failure and success. That's definitely the difference between doing okay and founding a lasting franchise. Even if you cut that down to 1% - 1 out of every hundred people who are pirating the game - who would actually buy the game, that's still a 10% increase in revenue. Again, that's big enough to make the difference between breaking even and making a profit.

Titan Quest did okay. We didn't lose money on it. But if even a tiny fraction of the people who pirated the game had actually spent some god-damn money for their 40+ hours of entertainment, things could have been very different today. You can ###### all you want about how piracy is your god-given right, and none of it matters anyway because you can't change how people behave... whatever. Some really good people made a seriously good game, and they might still be in business if piracy weren't so rampant on the PC. That's a fact.


Full post:

http://www.quarterto...ead.php?t=42663
Christian "Serellan" Allen

www.serellan.com

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#11 User is offline   Rocky Icon Posted 01 March 2008 - 10:17 AM

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Very interesting read.

Why would they just crash a game to desktop when it detected a stolen version though? They could have prevented all the false "this game is buggy" bad press if it simply exited with a "unauthorised version, game will exit" message? I'm sure they are clever enough to made the message random enough or something to make to make it difficult for hackers to break it out of the game code? edit > I see that was the very first suggestion after the orig. link post heh.

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Let's dig a little deeper there. So, if 90% of your audience is stealing your game, even if you got a little bit more, say 10% of that audience to change their ways and pony up, what's the difference in income? Just about double. That's right, double. That's easily the difference between commercial failure and success.


That makes me feel like I really have to do something to help stop game piracy :ermm: But how?

This post has been edited by Rocky: 01 March 2008 - 10:21 AM

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#12 User is offline   krise madsen Icon Posted 01 March 2008 - 11:08 AM

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View PostRocky, on Mar 1 2008, 11:17 AM, said:

That makes me feel like I really have to do something to help stop game piracy :ermm: But how?


Just in case there would be any confusion: I don't like piracy and pirates mooching off us honest folk and the developers. What do do about it? No clue. I'm all for any system that works. I just know that copy protection that doesn't work is a really bad solution in the long term. Maybe online verification? It tends to be annoyingly slow (I want to play NOW!) and being unable to play any games if your connection acts up is a really nasty downside, but if it works then I'll happily live with it.

Respectfully

krise madsen
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#13 User is offline   KRP 56 Icon Posted 01 March 2008 - 05:24 PM

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View Postkrise madsen, on Jan 21 2008, 09:46 AM, said:

Question is, how many would have bought a legal copy if they had no choice...

(and no, I don't have the anwer to that one, only that the "each illegal copy is a copy not sold" is way off the mark).
:yes: I'll agree with that. Some gamers wouldn't even purchase the game if it was in the bargain bin.
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#14 User is offline   krise madsen Icon Posted 02 March 2008 - 02:38 PM

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Here's an interesting article on the future of anti-piracy measures:

eurogamer.net

Respectfully

krise madsen
"crisis" is my middle name...

#15 User is offline   WhiteKnight77 Icon Posted 02 March 2008 - 05:50 PM

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Good read and good find.

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