WTB Proper freakin Military style FPS for PC

[zeealice]

XD i'll stick to the plain black gear, armour on both sides and a balaclava

[WytchDokta]

One thing they never fixed in that game is that the majority of the armours/trousers/jacket combinations in the game don't fit a female character correctly, especially the attached ammo pouches.

[zeealice]

you mean glitch wise or in real life? sorry i'm being a wolly today

[WytchDokta]

I'm talking R6V2 in-game. Choose to be a female character and most of the items don't fit correctly ('floating' ammo pouches etc).

[zeealice]

XD but trust ubi to, once again, not listen to the customer and patch said problem up

Edited February 19, 2011 by zeealice

[WytchDokta]

Take the issue up with Equal Rights. XD

Thing is though, the same kind of character customisation fail was also present in Mass Effect 2 - one of the armoured leg plating sets for female Commander Shephard's doesn't fit correctly, the outer webbing around the waist floats out in front of the armour. on a male Commander Shephard, the outer webbing on the said set of armour plating for the legs is flush with the surface of the armour.

Also, one thing I do not want to see on the character customisation front is the Lost Planet 2 approach - don't get me wrong, loadsa customisation options here, I like it. But that's not the problem. The problem is that once you reach experience level 80 with one of the five factions, you unlock 'full' customisation for that faction. This means, you are no longer limited to choosing items for your character from presets only from that faction, you can now choose any items from across all five factions, and this is a problem. Is it the LP2 player asks. Yes it is because one of the factions has ONLY female characters in it, meaning you can mix male and female body parts/clothing. Therefore you can create chicks with d.... nevermind.

[zeealice]

XD thats quite funny

[WytchDokta]

I think if done correctly, character customisation in a game would be a good thing. The customisation options wouldn't need to so extensive for a modern military game. Let's think about this for a sec. If it's 'proper freakin military style', then you would only have access to the clothing and armour that the military you are part of would use. So it could be a case of whether or not you want to choose to have kneepads, or whether you want to have rolled up sleeves or rolled down sleeves, or choosing boonie hat/helmet etc - along with face customisation.

I have however, seen published real world pics of SF units mixing up camos, notably the Danish Jægerkorpset (Elite Ranger Corps. Or if you want to be specific, Hunter Corps, as Jæger translates to Hunter.) There was one pic with a JGK operative that had US/NATO woodland camo jacket and Danish woodland flecktarn (Dansktarn) trousers. (this pic was on the Danish military site (HOK?), back when I was researching for the Danish Forces GR mod)

And what about if in the game you were playing as a PMC (Private Military Contractor)? Then surely the equipment you have access to would be different to that of the reg. army etc?

Edited February 20, 2011 by WytchDokta

[zeealice]

very true Wytch. the British forces in afghanistan also frequently mix things up a little, using a woodland jacket and desert trousers and so on. it was also seen in GR desert seige with Tunney i believe.

PMCs would have access to prototype weapons and equipment from foriegn makers like Kalashinkov and Heckler and Koch no?

oh and if it is a more modern shooter or set loosely in the near future, i doubt M4s would be a part of it. i can see the H&K 416s or the barrett REC 7 variants used instead

Edited February 20, 2011 by zeealice

[WytchDokta]

very true Wytch. the British forces in afghanistan also frequently mix things up a little, using a woodland jacket and desert trousers and so on.

Yes, I know.

I'm talking mixing up camos from different countries, not from different theatre of operations. The point I was making is that the pic showed a Jægerkorpset operative wearing a mix of camos from the same theatre of operations, but from different countries - US/NATO woodland camo jacket and Danish flecktarn woodland camo trousers. I guess it's to do with reducing the risk of them being identified as being from a certain military when in deployment (much like them wearing plain black or olive overalls etc)

[zeealice]

true

[WytchDokta]

Now, let's talk terminology. Devs frequently get this incorrect. Let me give you an example of how incorrect terminology can ruin a game:

I'm playing some 'realistic' military shooter with a random group of guys. We got heavy contact. The guy to the left of me suddenly yells "No clips!" So I'm thinking clips, Movie clips? WTH? No wait, NO CLIPs - right now I get it, so I reply "you want me to hack the games' console so I can walk through the map?"

"WTH dude" he replies. "What has that got to do with anything, you better not be running haxx"

So anyway, I get hit and this guy isn't shooting back. "Hey man, shoot, I'm getting shot up"

"I can't." He says. "NOOO CLIIIIPS" he then says slowly as if I was a spaz.

"I see, no ammo. Why didn't you say that instead of saying noclip?"

**I get booted for pointing out incorrect teminology that almost got me killed.**

The point is, that clip IS NOT magazine, they ARE NOT the same thing. All weapons nowadays either have detachable box/drum magazine or an integral MAGAZINE. Clips, or 'stripper clips' (OMG I said stripper), were what WW2 rifles used (and before that). Yet still most game devs devs insist the correct terminology is clip.

And another thing relating to this: machineguns. It's not just the devs responsible for this though. For example, you see some news report of some guy holding his family hostage, armed police were there etc. Eye witness accounts and the general media state "police armed with machineguns", I look at the footage the news are showing and I see no police carrying .50 cal M2's. In fact, I see them carrying G36's. You see, an assault rifle is an assault rifle, a machinegun is a machinegun. Big difference. It's even present in games - in L4D2, the characters refer to the uzi as a machinegun, which of course, it is not.

Edited February 28, 2011 by WytchDokta

[Tinker]

Is it call of doody that calls them clips?

THESE are clips.

[WytchDokta]

Is it call of doody that calls them clips?

Many games (and movies I might add).

Edited February 28, 2011 by WytchDokta

[Zeealex]

oh another thing, sorry to butt in here, something i notice in Crap of Duty Black Ops SP campaign, if you are a CIA agent, wearing civilian clothes and no ghest rig to carry mags, your pockets arent going to be big enough to carry 10 magazines that needs to be adressed, if you pick up an AK47 from a dead soldier, you are only going to have the mag in his gun plus possibly 2 that you can fit in your back pockets. not automatically ten. it would be a good idea to see when a soldier picks up a weapon, that they actually root around the dead soldier's mag pouches and take out the mags too, and putting your old mags in his or something nuts like that. that sort of thing i would like to see implemented into Co-op only, i wouldnt expect to see that in the heat of a deathmatch.

[Operative]

After reading the whole topic, I was wondering about the vehicle controversy.

Walking some hours to get in the specified place is realistic as it is boring. "Teleporting" (not an istant teleport, more of a fade in/out in movie-style teleport) is the best option. Now, you would not be surprised by ambushes, because if you appear somewhere before the specific location you would know that something was going to happen.

So, the movie-style teleport must leave you some minutes away from the hostiles. Also, HALO is not going to leave you in the roof of the enemies building, so some cutscene should work.

I remember some of the Combat Flight Simulator gameplay: you needed to take off, then you could skip the gameplay to the first checkpoint, from there you continued playing, if you neutralized the enemies (if there was any), you could skip again to the next checkpoint, all the way to the last one, the landing.

Some missions did not have checkpoints (most when your base was being attacked).

If you skipped all skipable parts, the mission would take less than an hour. If not, you would need some hours to complete it, most being moving from checkpoint to checkpoint.

About the customization. It all depends. If you are a common US grunt, you can use you own goggles/glasses, maybe you own boots and hat (if not issued a helmet), can put some face camo, roll the sleeves up/down. If you are SF (including CIA) you have much more customization options, as well you might be working undercover.

About weapon customization: if the mission is during nighttime and you don't wear NVGoggles, please put a NV device in you rifle! Well, this if you play a medium/high technological sofisticated country/force.

About armor too: i really don't think machine gunners, assistant gunners and automatic riflemen wear heavier armour. Their weapons are already heavier, they commonly carry more ammo and sometimes carry a secondary weapon, that sometimes use a different cartridge and then they must carry more ammo!

Like I read in a report of a M249 gunner that was issued a M240. He carried 600+ rounds in the belts, plus a M4 and more ammo in the magazines.

Also, most soldiers hate to be issued under-barrel grenade-launchers: those are heavy, need heavy ammo and make you weapon a pain to carry, all front-heavy.

And the martyr of the armed forces over the world, the radio guy! He suffers more than everybody could bear. That radio thing is really annoying and heavy, and you must proceed with your squad.

Then, a question: does every soldier carry an individual integrated comm system? I'm sure that they don't, even SF, maybe low-fi if allowed.

[Zeealex]

snipers would have their own comms, as they would be further away from their main fire team than other team members. and the designated team leader.

[WytchDokta]

I'd like to add to a point I brought up in my initial post, voice acting. For me it's all part of the immersion, and poor voice acting/fake accents (English voice acting for say a Russian guy performed by some-one who doesn't even know one word in Russian, so their accent is way off compared to a Russian born person perfoming the English voice acting - they have the correct accent) can break the immersion. An example along these lines is Bulletstorm (arcade game, I KNOW, I'm using it as an example).... There is a female NPC named Trishka Nowak, this is a Polish name and on her character profile it states she is Polish born. Therein lies the problem, the information in her character profile is erroneous. And, yes, I DO have sufficient evidence to back up this claim: You see, the voice actress cast to voice Trishka is Canadian (Jennifer Hale), and all Trishka's lines in the game are performed with a Canadian accent, with no hint of a Polish accent at all. Way to go for attention to detail, not.

For me that breaks the immersion, realism and authenticity. If there are to be from a different ethnic background, atleast use a voice actor from that country, and then, NO ARCHETYPAL ACCENTS. In every country, the accent varies from area to area.

Now, BioWare *almost* got it right with Dragon Age 2, on the voice acting front. In fact, the majority of cast voice actors in that game are in fact from the UK and Europe, and let me tell you, there are no archetypal UK accents at all, regional accents are present and correct - you've got the Elves who are all voiced by Irish voice actors, except Merrill who is voiced by a Welsh voice actress; there are a few French voice actors; and believe it or not, the companion Aveline is in fact voiced by a Danish voice actress (although, no Danish accent is present whatsoever, you'd think the voice actor for was English); there's even one female NPC in Darktown who has a Westcountry accent, although the voice actress is evidently not from a rural area as no weem's, be 'e's or, seh(b)'m's, 'ow be on's, past tense used as present tense, or stressed -ur sounds are present in her lines (I'll have to check, but I think I heard the -awl sound in place of -ol/-al/-le sounds among her lines, which of course, is correct for this area of the UK (that's right we don't speak English down here, we speak Westcountry, there IS a huge difference. )) ; etc. However, notice I said 'almost' earlier? There's a reason for that. And that reason is the voice actor for the *apparently* French NPC trader called Hubert. Also note the 'apparently' right there. Again, there's a reason for that - pay attention when he's talking. He starts out with a somewhat convincing French accent when he's speaking English, but unlike other voice actors in the game, it is not consistant. Keep him talking and you can clearly hear his French accent fading and that it is in fact a English voice actor 'faking it'

The point of that pointless jibber jabber I just wrote is that for realism/authenticity purposes, I want to hear all kinds of accents from different parts of the countries represented in a 'proper' military game, none of that archetypal accent that apparently everybody from the said country has. And while they're at it, none of that 'enemy speak English to each other but shout abuse in their own language at players' junk, thanks.

Edited March 29, 2011 by WytchDokta

[Zeealex]

agreed, also, none of this "posh" english accents crap, that is about as unconvincing as it gets, most brits i know these days talk with other accents like cockneys, scousers, mancs etc. oh and their regiment's tag should match their accent, no cockneys, from the machester regiment.

i think the best example of foreign languages used apart from, ghost recon was spec ops, yeah sure it was a 3rd person shooter, but in airborne commando they spoke in native languages with a little traslation at the bottom

Edited March 29, 2011 by Zeealex

[WytchDokta]

Yeah, and if they're repping some-one from a rural part of the Southwest UK in a game, then no Pirate Speak! It is indeed fact that Pirate Speak is an very distorted and exaggerated version of the Westcountry accent/dialect, with the emphasis being on 'very distorted.' Samwise from LoTR has the correct accent, for this area of the Southwest atleast, but the Deh(b)'n (try pronouncing that then - it's *roughly* how those from rural areas say Devon. And that's an almost non-existant B sound followed by an extremely short -un/-um sound (with the U being pronounced similar to a Welsh W, but considerably shorter)) area accent is much better.

[Zeealex]

agreed.

[WytchDokta]

And no Gangsta Speak either, some of us can't speak Gangsta.

[Zeealex]

XD yeah, i think gangstas in the army arent really realistic, the army is full of discipline that type of speak isnt allowed.

another thing, if the spentsnaz are being involved they should use the actual spetsnaz moves like their tactical reload and weapon change, and of course the human sheild thing they get going on with their AK straps as well as the vintarez sniper rifle and the shovel they use to behead people.

i hate seeing russian portrayed in a bad light especially the spenstnaz being portrayed as "just another unit" just isnt acceptable, they are by far the best special forces i have researched yet.

oh good luck completing your DS2 acheivment!

[WytchDokta]

oh good luck completing your DS2 acheivment!

Thanks, but it's a DS1 achievement. I still need to get the achievement for completing DS2 on Hardcore. Almost there, reading those glitches people posted about certain areas in Chapter 13 (including one discovered whereby Necromorphs cannot travel between floors when you take a certain lift in Ch. 13 (if you get the Necro's to follow you, then take the lift back up and immediately take it back down, when you get back down they will be stood there frozen)) should help me. What? Me, glitching? That is such a crude way of putting it. 'Surviving' is more polite word. Survival of the fittest right? (or as John 'Jigsaw' Kramer says: "Live or die, make your choice." I choose to live.

Oh, and I bagged the Epic Tier 3 Engineer achievement the other day.

As for SF - there was a video (possibly promo or the like) released once of Danish SOF 'Jaegerkorpset' (Elite Hunter/Ranger Corps) breaching a door using improvised weapons during a training excercise. I don't remember which, the the 'weapon' was either an angle grinder or and axe. Would be cool to do that in a military game (with the axe, quoting "Here's Johnny!!" especially)

Edited April 1, 2011 by WytchDokta

[Zeealex]

XD cool! great job getting said acheivement anyway

that sounds interesting, i'll look ito it, it will be so cool implementing it into a game.