Give Me Back My Old Ghost Recon, Rejuvenated! That's All!

[ApexMods]

Give me a new expansion pack, a patch 1.5 and I don't need anything else.

no diamonds, no hud, no linearity, no desert (for a while at least), and solid modding tools...and we will have our GR sequel...period.

Hear hear!

[Tinker]

But does our small niche market really have any entitlement to RSE/Ubisoft taking their game backwards just to please our bizarre tastes?

Just a few thoughts off the top of my head:

AW2 has awesome maps, vehicles, in fact all models are fantastic, guns, characters, the lot. And the sounds are even better. But feel free to swap them with the ones from [GR], and most would not bat an eyelid. Not that this is what I want, but good looks don`t make a new Ghost Recon.

[GR] Campaign co-op available for 9 people, when modded, avaialable for 27.

AW2 Campaign co-op for 4 people, when modded only by an actually dev, available for 6.

[GR] had freindlies, pow`s, variety of leaders and refugees.

AW2 has a few freindlies, with no possible way to use them unarmed.

[GR] captives follow each and all of there captives stance while escorted.

AW2 they can only follow a path set in the editor, standing, outside of campaign mode, and there it is still very limited, with no change of stance.

[GR] you have as many mods as you can shovel in your mods folder active.

AW2 you can have 1 active.

[GR] you can give ai teams as many new plans as you like by scripting. Script your heart out sunshine!

AW2 you can give them 1, with an option to make them combat mode.

[GR] we had fog and spotting distances that the AI worked flawless with.

AW2 we do not have anything that works in this fashion.

[GR] you can play with over 100 enemy active with no issues.

AW2 has a very limited number of actors that can be active, heck after all this time, we don`t even know what that number is.

[GR] had a lobby you could chat to others in, arrange games and so.

AW2 has none.

[GR] has Bino`s, yeah recon usually requires these items.

AW2 has none.

[GR] had Igor.

AW2 has the most unstable editor I have used so far.

Backwards?

[ApexMods]

[GR] had [...]

Correction: [GR] has... !!!

[Tinker]

You are correct, but I refer to Ghost Recon, as a game to begin with, had this and that, and not just a number, had. Compare the original state of the game, to it`s present state.

[ApexMods]

I refer to Ghost Recon, as a game to begin with, had this and that

I know, I know - but it still hurts my feelings to read about it as if it was something from the distant past. :'(

...

[krise madsen]

Well, in gaming terms, it is from the distant past. It's just that nobody have been able to come up with something to match it* Which goes to show how awesome the RSE of old was.

Respectfully

krise madsen

*) yet...

[Rocky]

Sorry Sup, I don't know how, but I must have overlooked your post until now!

Sups posts are currently moderated therefore there may be a delay before they appear.

<snip>

Backwards?

Thanks Tinker, I was going to respond to the "backwards" post too, but you did a much better job than I was going too.

Sadly (for today's gamers), going backwards in time to GR would actually be a step forward in many many respects, as you have shown.

[Fletch]

I have to object to the theory that mass approval alone equals quality

me 2 Sup - and while GRAW(2) were valiant attempts at sequels, they ceased to be sequels when they did away with non-linear maps, and added blue huds and pink diamonds.

as much as some ppl moan about GRAWs failings, I actually think they were so darn close to being worthy successors....but those fundamental changes I mentioned were just wrong...just not GR.

no diamonds, no hud, no linearity, no desert (for a while at least), and solid modding tools...and we will have our GR sequel...period.

I have to agree, GR:AW was a great game , BUT the maps could have been better, the added enhancement of the blue huds and pink diamonds while it may have keep you from commiting fratracide it was not realistic. Perhaps if you had a choice to use it or not. I also missed the MP interface that allowed you not only to set up the server for games but to block out different weapons.

If GR:AW had had those features it would have been the best game in years. As it is I still load it up now and then to play it just cause its still better than Crysis.

EDIT: Oh I almost forgot, give us back the original Co-Op style of Play, not some afterthought.

Edited December 12, 2008 by Fletch

[Sup]

But does our small niche market really have any entitlement to RSE/Ubisoft taking their game backwards just to please our bizarre tastes?

Just a few thoughts off the top of my head:

AW2 has awesome maps, vehicles, in fact all models are fantastic, guns, characters, the lot. And the sounds are even better. But feel free to swap them with the ones from [GR], and most would not bat an eyelid. Not that this is what I want, but good looks don`t make a new Ghost Recon.

[GR] Campaign co-op available for 9 people, when modded, avaialable for 27.

AW2 Campaign co-op for 4 people, when modded only by an actually dev, available for 6.

[GR] had freindlies, pow`s, variety of leaders and refugees.

AW2 has a few freindlies, with no possible way to use them unarmed.

[GR] captives follow each and all of there captives stance while escorted.

AW2 they can only follow a path set in the editor, standing, outside of campaign mode, and there it is still very limited, with no change of stance.

[GR] you have as many mods as you can shovel in your mods folder active.

AW2 you can have 1 active.

[GR] you can give ai teams as many new plans as you like by scripting. Script your heart out sunshine!

AW2 you can give them 1, with an option to make them combat mode.

[GR] we had fog and spotting distances that the AI worked flawless with.

AW2 we do not have anything that works in this fashion.

[GR] you can play with over 100 enemy active with no issues.

AW2 has a very limited number of actors that can be active, heck after all this time, we don`t even know what that number is.

[GR] had a lobby you could chat to others in, arrange games and so.

AW2 has none.

[GR] has Bino`s, yeah recon usually requires these items.

AW2 has none.

[GR] had Igor.

AW2 has the most unstable editor I have used so far.

Backwards?

GR had no dedicated lobby, that's false. Only ubi.com

Again, anyway, it's a matter of perspective. And i have to admit i'm speaking only for the console versions of GRAW, seeing as Ubi made it pretty clear they were the primary development (and rse worked on them!)

GRAW2 had... (separating them since they were two different engines and showed some very different gameplay)

MP by Red Storm

A multitude of large, open ended multiplayer maps.

A large, varied selection of kits.

A very well implemented optional UAV mechanic. (for those who never played, it was controlled by the team commander, could be given orders to recon around the map, could be shot down, and was the only way to have those 'red diamonds' in MP)

A co-op campaign featuring [GR] style maps with... Ahh, you'd have to look it up, i dont remember how many maps. Not a huge amound.

Co-op firefight, defend, and recon, all with variable settings, on every map.

Accessible gameplay without sacrificing depth. GRAW may not have had the harshness of GR -- it was a lot easier to move and shoot and generally not die, but that did not invalidate the effectiveness of stealth and teamwork. Just gave the new players a chance to have fun with the game they spent 60 dollars on.

AI is fairly mechanically simple in MP, and mostly dynamic. Flees, flanks, serves its purpose.

SP by Ubisoft

A somewhat competently written storyline

superb mission variety

encouragement of stealth and tactics (albiet '2 man' tactics, since your team was given orders as one)

very effective enemy AI (take cover, flank, fall back)

weapon and team member switching -- all team members were named characters with specific weapons, you did not want them to die

a well implemented, if arcadey, cover system

for the most part, linear levels

implementation of smoke grenades

I look at that feature list and (having actually played both the game and GR extensively, unlike most posters here) i have to say that is a very high quality, well produced game.

Is it exactly the same type of game as GR, or what i would call a faithful sequel? No. But it does follow the vision or RSE's last game (gr2) and it succeeds in making a 'tacticool' product like Call of Duty. It appeals (and sells!) to the masses, teenagers and adults alike (no kiddies, sorry guys, you'll have to pick another cliche) and it carries the Ghost Recon name as a mark of quality. It may not be exactly what i wanted out of the Ghost Recon franchise (i was with you all in disappointment for GR2, rememeber?) but i can't say it's a bad game or attack ubisoft for it.

And considering it's a high quality product, with a lot of fans, very positive reviews, and a lot of sales, why would they take their game design back to 2001?

I sincerely hope someone makes a good small team tactical shooter in the vein of ghost recon, but i can't how why it can or should be Ubisoft with ghost recon. They've made something else very good already.

[ApexMods]

Sup (et al.), this thread is not meant to become a battleground of arguments between GR and AW aficionados - please look closely at the thread's title and description:

Give Me Back My Old Ghost Recon, Rejuvenated! That's All!

If you share this sentiment, come in and shout it out!

In view of this thread's subject: Why bother trying to convince me - or people like me - that other games that we all know are just as good or better? I tell you right here and now:

Hell will freeze over before I change my mind!

Yes, I have purchased a copy of AW, and AW2, and further Clancy games. Yes, I have bought other games that for a brief moment in time looked remotely like worthy successors. Yes, I've played them, and yes, on hardware that can handle even Crysis in all its visual glory! Yes, I own a console - and no, I would not want to play a tactical shooter on it, just look at my name - I am a modder!

Re-read my thread introduction and follow-up and tell me - do you honestly think it is a matter of informing me?

I am not usually fanatic, but I am a Ghost Recon fan. It is not because I am unaware of alternative tactical shooters - it is because for me - currently there are none!

* I edited this post a bit to dim down my level of zealousness - sometimes I have problems remembering not to post while being overly tired or emotional. Sorry about that.

[Lightspeed]

@ Tinker

excellent post - due to the awful mod tools i never delved as far into the modding for GRAW.

but while I still say the gameplay was pretty close to GR, it lacked awfully in some key areas, and was made a different game by the things i mentioned earlier.

i am shouting out for my Old GR

[Sup]

Sup (et al.), this thread is not meant to become a battleground of arguments between GR and AW aficionados - please look closely at the thread's title and description:

Give Me Back My Old Ghost Recon, Rejuvenated! That's All!

I guess i'm saying it would really make more sense to find games that look remotely like worthy successors and encourage them to be more like GR than it is to try and imagine ubisoft is going back to a formula that, while it definitely worked, did not work (financially) as well as their new one does.

It's far more likely another developer than ubisoft will give you another game that feels like GR than it is they or rse have any interest remaking their old product.

[Fletch]

Still having that annoying reading comprehension problem eh Sup?

[ApexMods]

Now now - first of all - let's not fight! Let's just agree to disagree on some issues!

(* I edited my previous post a bit to dim down my level of zealousness - sometimes I have problems remembering not to post while being overly tired or emotional. Sorry about that. )

It's far more likely another developer than Ubisoft will give you another game that feels like GR than it is they or RSE have any interest remaking their old product.

This is a valid theory which I acknowledged earlier to be possible, Sup (you quoted the exact same passage):

If no developer has picked up on this sentiment yet, it is of course unfortunate for us not to have "our game" profit from more current technologies - but I have a feeling that it won't be long now before someone grabs this opportunity and makes a run for it. As a loyal fan I wished it would be the original makers, but if it is not to be, I would not mind moving on too much, as it is the spirit of the game I admire more than the name on the package.

There is no need to hammer this point home, as we all can only theorize about any future plans Ubi and RSE may have - but if you look at the leading article of this forum you will notice that we are doing wish lists here. After all, the Holidays are coming!

Peace?

[pz3]

Oi Oi!

[Sixpence]

Sorry, I just had to start a new topic, because I feel very strongly about this, and I think some of you may feel the same way! It is all well and good to talk about every single feature that may or may not make it into the latest family member, but my main concern is this: Will the bloodline of the King be revived? Will there be a direct descendant?

Will he, who was once great and started all of this - this web site, this community - be the biological father of the child, or will we see just another adopted son? I do not know the details of what has been announced by the obstetricians Red Storm and Ubi, I only heard the rumors of the EndWar family line being involved, of a potential mixup regarding the parenthood. But maybe all of these are just tell-tales, and once the truth is revealed the land can finally reunite under one common rule.

I, for one, am desperate for a new ruler truly deserving to bear the name of our King. I will swear my allegiance in an instant, I will bend my knee to the new Lord - but only if I will be able to see the unmistakably bright eyes of the father in the son's face, only if there can be no doubt about the child's ancestry!

And now, to be clear:

Give me Ghost Recon or give me nothing! Give me all that it was, nothing more, nothing less - just pull it out of the past and push it into the present! Give me up-to-date 3D models and graphics, a new physics engine, modern sound, the latest AI routines, cutting-edge scripting capabilities - and use it all to simulate reality to the highest degree possible on contemporary hardware! And don't forget the most important thing: Give me all the tools necessary to mod the game in any way I see fit!

WORD !

Give me my [GR] in a modern Look, we dont want anymore.

BTW:

More Mod Possibilities would be nice

- let me create own Characters easily

- create own Stuff like Backpacks, Flasbags, Belts, helmets, Berets,... easily

- let me make Maps (and i mean BIGGER Maps) easily with Huts, thick Jungle, small Rivers and so on...flying Birds an Elephants (not flying) would be fine too

- better AI

- a Order Menu like SWAT ( Map ordering too !!)

- let me write nice Stories and Mission Scriptings too...

Edited December 16, 2008 by Sixpence

[ApexMods]

WORD !

Sixpence!

It is SO great to finally see you here, again!

- let me create own Characters [...]

- let me make Maps [...]

- let me write nice Stories [...]

I can't wait!

[Sixpence]

LOL Dont praise on me, i am a human only...but thx for the nice Words. I had always an eye the past months here. Eager to see new Mods an especially Statemenst from GRIN or Ubi about a new , better Ghost Recon. And I mean the Original, not the Future-Warrior-Laser-Combat-aeounflux- Version.

Last Months i played Airsoft in a SEALTEAM and I have to say, it was a very, valuable Experience. Now I am ready to do something for Ghost Recon...

[ApexMods]

[...] eager to see new Mods and especially statements from GRIN or Ubi about a new, better Ghost Recon. And I mean the Original, not the Future-Warrior-Laser-Combat-AeonFlux Version.

This summarizes a lot of what I was trying to express earlier! Excellent!

Now I am ready to do something for Ghost Recon...

I will hold you to that promise, Sixpence!

[rossiski]

GRAW took the themes we all loved in ghost recon (smart tactics, teamwork, realistic military setting) and made them accessable to the masses. They made a VERY high quality action shooter that retained the thematic spirit of ghost recon.

Not every theme transferred successfully. COOP was a disaster for GRAW and it's successors. The ability to host & run tournaments, a community event that drew us together, cannot be understated.

Isn't that what a sequel should do? Take the original idea and grow it into something that is 'better' (if we quantify better as being enjoyed by more people?)

Unfortunately, the enjoyment lasted only a couple months. We all know the reasons why Ghost Recon lasted for 4 years.

I definitely miss the classical tactical shooter. I still play [GR], i love armed assault, i play Hidden and Dangerous and thought long and hard about putting down money for an old copy of Seal Team.

But does our small niche market really have any entitlement to RSE/Ubisoft taking their game backwards just to please our bizarre tastes?

Long tail economics can still be very powerful AND profitable.

I add my shout to this thread. Bring back the old Ghost Recon.

[Saker]

Does anyone remember back months ago when we started a discussion about this............?

We asked for everyone to voice their opinion in the GR community.......

Take a look at the thread and let it refresh your memory, possibly "someone" from the "Company" was looking at what some of us were voicing our opinion about.

http://www.ghostrecon.net/forums/index.php...mp;hl=Revisited

BTW..... this site was not the only one where similare posts were made.

I just hope they finally remake [GR]!!!!!

[Rocky]

Does anyone remember back months ago when we started a discussion about this............?

We asked for everyone to voice their opinion in the GR community.......

Take a look at the thread and let it refresh your memory, possibly "someone" from the "Company" was looking at what some of us were voicing our opinion about.

http://www.ghostrecon.net/forums/index.php...mp;hl=Revisited

BTW..... this site was not the only one where similare posts were made.

I just hope they finally remake [GR]!!!!!

What am I meant to be looking at? There's nothing new in the link you posted, and the link back to your site from that other link gives an error...

Notice: Constant NUKE_FILE already defined in /hsphere/local/home/marzetti/roguegamingproductions.com/mainfile.php on line 236

What am I missing here?

[Saker]

Oh, sorry Rocky...the link is not valid anymore, but the quote was included when the link was originally posted, you will see the quote from The_Clown in that post.......... <--- (edited 12-25-08 @ 2:06 AM)

My above post was a reminder back on June 13 of 2008 we were discussing the very same thing about trying to get UBI to re-introduce the [GR] with enhancements, not like they did with GRAW.

It was just a reminder, thats all! And as I pointed out maybe someone from the "Company" was looking at some of the sites.......

Maybe, just maybe...... they listened!

Edited December 25, 2008 by FNG Saker

[Tinker]

I just hope they finally remake [GR]!!!!!

I don`t think that is the issue actually. Pretty sure they can build anything they want. Can they support it? Small fixes can be fixed by modders in minutes, but still remain in many ubi games. How are any of us not supposed to be highly warey of any future titles?

[CR6]

Give Me Back My Old Ghost Recon, Rejuvenated! That's All!

If you share this sentiment, come in and shout it out!

Here's an interesting article that shows the attitude at Ubisoft towards development of new games. Here we have one of the designers of the latest Prince of Persia game who expected more kudos for innovation on the new title:

For years we've all been reading complaints about sequels and companies churning out carbon copies of proven formulas without focusing on innovation or taking risks. Fans, developers and critics alike seemed ravenous for new ideas -- new IPs; major innovations -- advances in this art-tertainment (I'm trying to coin a new term here ) form we all love.

We tried to really embrace this challenge on PoP. We set out to keep a few core fundamentals but to re-imagine everything else, discarding some very well entrenched ideas not only about the brand but also about videogames in general (and we weren't alone. EA took some major risks this year with new IP and innovations - Mirror's Edge and Dead Space, for example).

What surprises me is how little these high level risks seem to be noticed and appreciated as attempts to shake up the industry and push things forward. Perhaps I'm an idealist, but I think perhaps I was expecting a few more virtual pats-on-the-back for our attempts to do something new.

What I am hearing here is that people basically want a remake of the first GR game with updated graphics. Ubi keeps trying to "fix" or "improve" things that aren't broken - trying to "catch the wave" of recent pop culture trends: Notice how R6 Vegas moved away from the globe-trotting formula to more emulate an episode of 24, or making Sam Fisher go on the run like Jason Bourne in the latest Splinter Cell 5. When will Ubi understand we are not asking for a GR version of Call of Duty.