GRAW 2 announced

[OSPerry]

GRAW2 announced, Brothers in Arms 3 and Assassin’s Creed delayed

Posted in Xbox 360, Games, Business by Nino on October 24th, 2006 at 20:19

Ubisoft released their quarterly earnings today and our Dutch friends over at Xboxworld.nl discovered some interesting stuff. Assassin’s Creed and Brothers in Arms: Hells Highway have both been pushed back to the next financial year and both will probably be released in the third or fourth quarter of 2007. Xboxworld also tells that we’ll be seeing a Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter sequel in the first half of 2007, the time frame that Assassin’s Creed and Brothers in Arms 3 were original set for.

Ubisoft

There’s no word on any of the titles that leaked via Ubi’s FTP a month ago. For those interested in finances; Ubisoft did 25% better than expected in the first half of 2006, earning 274 million euros. Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter sold 2.4 million copies and the downloadable mission pack sold 150.000 times since its release. Ubisoft is bound to do even better in the second half with huge games such as Rainbow Six: Vegas and Splinter Cell: Double Agent for Xbox 360 and games like Red Steel and Rayman Raving Rabbids for Nintendo Wii. Maybe they can buy a higher framerate for Rainbow Six: Vegas and Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter with all that money they’re making.

http://www.xboxic.com/news/1857

[kingotnw]

I am bummed out about Assasin's Creed being delayed, but excited for GRAW2

[W1ngsh0t]

I hope Ubi learned a little something with the DLC:

Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter sold 2.4 million copies.

Tom Clancy’s Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter which sold 150,000 downloads of an additional map pack.

That is a pretty pathetic sell through on the DLC (and by the way Ubisoft is the one calling it a "Map pack").

Link

But It will be interesting to see what GRAW2 brings to the table in terms of gameplay and map types.

[CR6]

Tom Clancy’s Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter which sold 150,000 downloads of an additional map pack.

That is a pretty pathetic sell through on the DLC (and by the way Ubisoft is the one calling it a "Map pack").

Actually, looks like Ubi recouped the development costs of the map pack and made a nifty profit:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6160436.html

the critically acclaimed third-person shooter's premium map pack was downloaded 150,000 times on Microsoft's online service. Ubi's announcement did not break down sales of the map pack by territory, but it did say the publisher received 3 million euros ($3.8 million) of income from sales on Xbox Live Marketplace, most of which came from GRAW.

So if Ubi learned anything, it's likely they will do it again and maybe charge a little more next time ... (speculating of course )

[W1ngsh0t]

I am sure they did all right with it ... but when you have a customer base of 2.4M and only capture 6% of it there is some significant room for improvement. I think they would have expected to capture closer to 10% with an even higher best case scenario. One has to wonder what the number would have been with a price of $10 or even $5 ...

In terms of the profit made on the DLC ... I always maintained it was overpriced for the amount of work that it entailed

And as for putting out more LDC (which I doubt will happen as any content will probably make its way to GRAW2) I would be interested to see how that worked in terms of hosting and playing games - If the host has DLC 1 and 2 only those players with both packages can join? or if the host has DLC 2 but not one only those players with DLC 2 but not 1 can join? Or mabye if the host has DLC 2 you can join if you have neither DLC 1 or 2 ...

[Ick]

I am sure they did all right with it ... but when you have a customer base of 2.4M and only capture 6% of it there is some significant room for improvement. I think they would have expected to capture closer to 10% with an even higher best case scenario. One has to wonder what the number would have been with a price of $10 or even $5 ...

In terms of the profit made on the DLC ... I always maintained it was overpriced for the amount of work that it entailed

And as for putting out more LDC (which I doubt will happen as any content will probably make its way to GRAW2) I would be interested to see how that worked in terms of hosting and playing games - If the host has DLC 1 and 2 only those players with both packages can join? or if the host has DLC 2 but not one only those players with DLC 2 but not 1 can join? Or mabye if the host has DLC 2 you can join if you have neither DLC 1 or 2 ...

When DLC was free I wonder what percentage of participation they had. I would bet it wasn't much more than 6% seeing as a lot of those "sales" were actually sales to blockbuster, gamefly, people with no internet connection, etc.

[PSekula]

I hope Ubi learned a little something with the DLC:

Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter sold 2.4 million copies.

Tom Clancy’s Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter which sold 150,000 downloads of an additional map pack.

That is a pretty pathetic sell through on the DLC (and by the way Ubisoft is the one calling it a "Map pack").

That 2.4m is the total GRAW franchise. Remember, GRAW was released on PC, PS2, Xbox, as well as 360. The downloads on the 360 DLC, in my opinion, is quite impressive.

[W1ngsh0t]

OK - so GRAW sold :

Ubisoft announced that Tom Clancy’s Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter for Xbox 360 achieved record sales for its first week of launch: over 240.000 units in the North America, and 120 000 units across Europe in just 3 days.

360K copies in the first week - I assume 360 sales accounted for at least 1.5M of the 2.4M total .. ? so the DLC did capture 10% of the launch audience ... I still thing the question remains what that number would have been if the DLC had nbeen released at a lower price. I also think (again my opinion from a fan's pov not an industry insider) that it was released 4 weeks late and that a lot of potential players were lost during those weeks.

But if Red Storm is happy with the numbers than life is good.

I can't wait to see what GRAW 2 brings to the table.

[Dannik]

Numbers are fun.

360,000 copies of GRAW Xbox360 sold

150,000 copies of the Map Pack sold

______

42% of every copy of GRAW Xbox360 sold purchased the Map Pack

Why shouldn't RSE be thrilled with the numbers?

Now sure, the percentage is based on first week of sales, but it's still a huge number. Even if sales of GRAW doubled for the 360 platform, it's still a large percentage of follow up sales. Not every 360 player has broadband, and thus Live access to purchase. Not every 360 Live player had the funds to purchase a commercial expansion pack. A very significant number did, though. It may not be earth shattering, but it's clearly enough to make a profit, and no matter how much we gamers would love it to be all about us, it's not. It's about making money. Love it or hate it, it's what keeps games on store shelves.

[W1ngsh0t]

I agree - it is about making money ... and again it would be interesting to see if they would have made even more at a lower price. At $10 they may have captured 300K or 83% (using the first weeks sales figure again) of the market and generated 4.5M in revenue vs. 3M (assuming the 3M was generated by the DLC and does not include profit from pics or themes).

But you are correct Dannik based on the first weeks sales the DLC was a great success.

As I said I can't wait to see what GRAW 2 brings to the table as CoD3 and RB6:LV will be 4+/- months old at that time.

[CR6]

When DLC was free I wonder what percentage of participation they had. I would bet it wasn't much more than 6% seeing as a lot of those "sales" were actually sales to blockbuster, gamefly, people with no internet connection, etc.

Ick brings up an excellent point. Unfortunately, Ubi doesn't share the stats for "free" maps from GR2 or GR:IT. I am still guessing that gamers who play MP online are still the minority vs. people who play single player.

I think the most important statistic would be the proportion of people who paid for the GRAW DLC vs the proportion of people who downloaded the GR2 DLC free.

[Janie42]

That 2.4m [copies sold GRAW] is the total GRAW franchise. Remember, GRAW was released on PC, PS2, Xbox, as well as 360. The downloads on the 360 DLC, in my opinion, is quite impressive.

@PSekula =>Thank you for this clarification/fact--it's obviously rather important!

[Deadpreacher]

I don't know what they all got planned for Graw2, but what i would like to see is for them to use the singleplayer engine for the Multiplayer so it feels and runs the same this time around. Not that the MP was all that bad just the Singleplayer blow the Multiplayer out of the water with the graphics and gameplay if you ask me! Besides would love to play CooP with a friend playing all the SP maps.

[Ick]

I think one of the MAJOR problems with developing single player games is that they are getting very hard to manage online with limitations. One major reason is, IMHO, that the consoles have beefed up, more graphics, more data, more features, yadda, yadda, yadda but unfortunately.......

...the average speed of the Internet pipeline coming into the average house is still the same. Therefore the console unit keeps getting better....but the garden hose internet connection that was so fast 3 years ago isn't any bigger. it can only transferr so much data.

It would seem to me that we are eventually gonig to hit a bifrication of internet gaming. Games for guys with high end internet....and games for the rest of us with less features.

For example....they could do GRAW now with the cross com showing my FACE real-time using the new XBOX camera. Could there possibly be enough bandwidth in the average household to run the standard GRAW game that probably already maxes out the bandwidth....AND handle the live video feed ON TOP OF THAT? Probably not.

Of course nobody wants to see my face anyhow so that is a bad example.

[ReapeR eXe]

I think one of the MAJOR problems with developing single player games is that they are getting very hard to manage online with limitations. One major reason is, IMHO, that the consoles have beefed up, more graphics, more data, more features, yadda, yadda, yadda but unfortunately.......

...the average speed of the Internet pipeline coming into the average house is still the same. Therefore the console unit keeps getting better....but the garden hose internet connection that was so fast 3 years ago isn't any bigger. it can only transferr so much data.

It would seem to me that we are eventually gonig to hit a bifrication of internet gaming. Games for guys with high end internet....and games for the rest of us with less features.

For example....they could do GRAW now with the cross com showing my FACE real-time using the new XBOX camera. Could there possibly be enough bandwidth in the average household to run the standard GRAW game that probably already maxes out the bandwidth....AND handle the live video feed ON TOP OF THAT? Probably not.

Of course nobody wants to see my face anyhow so that is a bad example.

Call me crazy if you will......but why not just develop a game that is co-op. No need for a single player campaign and then a separate MP section. Design and develop a lengthy and challenging story or a series of missions that can be completed alone or with friends (co-op). Only one game engine is needed, all graphics will be the same and so will the game mechanics (cover system if implemented).

Yes, MP and versus mode will still be a big feature.....but IMO co-op gaming and having the ability to play through an entire campaign with friends is the future of online gaming. Rainbow Six Vegas and Gears of War are both planning on using this co-op feature for the entire story mode.....I can't wait to jump in!

Let's have a show of hands who would have loved to play through the GRAW single player campaign with a buddy or two, or three...I do not and would not expect 16 players, however, next gen software played on next gen hardware should allow this type of game emersion via co-op gaming experiences.

[Wille]

I hope Ubi learned a little something with the DLC:

Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter sold 2.4 million copies.

Tom Clancy’s Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter which sold 150,000 downloads of an additional map pack.

That is a pretty pathetic sell through on the DLC (and by the way Ubisoft is the one calling it a "Map pack").

That 2.4m is the total GRAW franchise. Remember, GRAW was released on PC, PS2, Xbox, as well as 360. The downloads on the 360 DLC, in my opinion, is quite impressive.

I totally agree, you have to remember that most gamers buy a game, play it and then put it away,nomatter how much you liked it, and then play the next game that comes along. I for example bought HL2(which is of course as most people would agree an excellent game), played the single player campaign, loved it and then put it away. Just because the single player players are silent, it doesnt mean that they dont excist and spend money on games

[Janie42]

I totally agree, you have to remember that most gamers buy a game, play it and then put it away,no matter how much you liked it, and then play the next game that comes along. I for example bought HL2 (which is of course as most people would agree an excellent game), played the single player campaign, loved it and then put it away. Just because the single player players are silent, it doesnt mean that they dont excist and spend money on games

Good point & IMO also "a fact" as I've read that single player sales continue to comprise the majority of most game's sales.

[Ick]

Call me crazy if you will......but why not just develop a game that is co-op. No need for a single player campaign and then a separate MP section. Design and develop a lengthy and challenging story or a series of missions that can be completed alone or with friends (co-op). Only one game engine is needed, all graphics will be the same and so will the game mechanics (cover system if implemented).

Yes, MP and versus mode will still be a big feature.....but IMO co-op gaming and having the ability to play through an entire campaign with friends is the future of online gaming. Rainbow Six Vegas and Gears of War are both planning on using this co-op feature for the entire story mode.....I can't wait to jump in!

Let's have a show of hands who would have loved to play through the GRAW single player campaign with a buddy or two, or three...I do not and would not expect 16 players, however, next gen software played on next gen hardware should allow this type of game emersion via co-op gaming experiences.

Games dedicated to online only WOULD result in a better quality game...but from a marketing standpoint I am not sure it is wise to desgn a game with just one facet. It would seem to me that barring major errors and sacrofices it is better for a game to appeal to a huge audience than target something like "just the online segment". That is NOT to say this will not change in a few years.

So far GRAW is the BEST co-op game out there. However, Perfect Dark for the 360 did an incredible job of a modified-for-co-op version of single player. it was still the same core mission as offline single player.....but with ramped up ai, more tasks, tasks that required cooperation, etc.

I would hope that sort of thing becomes standard for consoles.

By the way, if any of you guys want to try console GRAW some time put a post here. Get your hands on a 360 from your neighbor, nephew, kid, whatever. My friend list is full though....so post here first so I can get you on.

[ReapeR eXe]

Call me crazy if you will......but why not just develop a game that is co-op. No need for a single player campaign and then a separate MP section. Design and develop a lengthy and challenging story or a series of missions that can be completed alone or with friends (co-op). Only one game engine is needed, all graphics will be the same and so will the game mechanics (cover system if implemented).

Yes, MP and versus mode will still be a big feature.....but IMO co-op gaming and having the ability to play through an entire campaign with friends is the future of online gaming. Rainbow Six Vegas and Gears of War are both planning on using this co-op feature for the entire story mode.....I can't wait to jump in!

Let's have a show of hands who would have loved to play through the GRAW single player campaign with a buddy or two, or three...I do not and would not expect 16 players, however, next gen software played on next gen hardware should allow this type of game emersion via co-op gaming experiences.

Games dedicated to online only WOULD result in a better quality game...but from a marketing standpoint I am not sure it is wise to desgn a game with just one facet. It would seem to me that barring major errors and sacrofices it is better for a game to appeal to a huge audience than target something like "just the online segment". That is NOT to say this will not change in a few years.

So far GRAW is the BEST co-op game out there. However, Perfect Dark for the 360 did an incredible job of a modified-for-co-op version of single player. it was still the same core mission as offline single player.....but with ramped up ai, more tasks, tasks that required cooperation, etc.

I would hope that sort of thing becomes standard for consoles.

By the way, if any of you guys want to try console GRAW some time put a post here. Get your hands on a 360 from your neighbor, nephew, kid, whatever. My friend list is full though....so post here first so I can get you on.

This is my point.....not once did I suggest that it would be for online gaming only......this is the beauty of the idea. It can run as a SP campaign but also as a MP co-op via system link or over the internet. You could just pop the disc in your 360 and play alone....if you so desired. The point that I’m just trying to get out is that one game, one story, one engine, one result......quality...or maybe two results, quality and consistency...lol

designing just an online game only would have massive drawbacks for those who only play SP or have no desire to play online. Imagine the quality of the GRAW SP graphics and physics with a C0-op feature for you and 3 of your buddies to battle....sweet right, however, something in between the GRAW SP and the GRAW MP (as far as quality goes) would be fantastic!!

Edited October 27, 2006 by ReapeR eXe

[W1ngsh0t]

I think one of the MAJOR problems with developing single player games is that they are getting very hard to manage online with limitations. One major reason is, IMHO, that the consoles have beefed up, more graphics, more data, more features, yadda, yadda, yadda but unfortunately.......

...the average speed of the Internet pipeline coming into the average house is still the same. Therefore the console unit keeps getting better....but the garden hose internet connection that was so fast 3 years ago isn't any bigger. it can only transferr so much data.

It would seem to me that we are eventually gonig to hit a bifrication of internet gaming. Games for guys with high end internet....and games for the rest of us with less features.

For example....they could do GRAW now with the cross com showing my FACE real-time using the new XBOX camera. Could there possibly be enough bandwidth in the average household to run the standard GRAW game that probably already maxes out the bandwidth....AND handle the live video feed ON TOP OF THAT? Probably not.

Of course nobody wants to see my face anyhow so that is a bad example.

You are right about not wanting to see your face.

And I think your "bifrication" is already taking place to a degree. A lot of the elements in a great Sp game on th e360 are going to put a severe strain on most peopel's bandwidth. I think you may even see MP and SP versions of a game sold seperately since the technical aspects are going to be very different and with the advent of the Marketplace the whole business model is being revamped due to the ease of distribution and "micro transactions".

Ick - you and I have already seen the bandwidth issues that are coming inot play in MP versions with the need for 1MB or better upload speeds to host full GRAW rooms. And Chromehounds had a lot of issues as well with hardware compatability ... something that SP games don't even have to consider.

I am very interested in seeing the MP side of CoD3, GoW, and RB6 to see what (in my eye) this second generation of 360 titles brings to the table.

[ReapeR eXe]

I think one of the MAJOR problems with developing single player games is that they are getting very hard to manage online with limitations. One major reason is, IMHO, that the consoles have beefed up, more graphics, more data, more features, yadda, yadda, yadda but unfortunately.......

...the average speed of the Internet pipeline coming into the average house is still the same. Therefore the console unit keeps getting better....but the garden hose internet connection that was so fast 3 years ago isn't any bigger. it can only transferr so much data.

It would seem to me that we are eventually gonig to hit a bifrication of internet gaming. Games for guys with high end internet....and games for the rest of us with less features.

For example....they could do GRAW now with the cross com showing my FACE real-time using the new XBOX camera. Could there possibly be enough bandwidth in the average household to run the standard GRAW game that probably already maxes out the bandwidth....AND handle the live video feed ON TOP OF THAT? Probably not.

Of course nobody wants to see my face anyhow so that is a bad example.

You are right about not wanting to see your face.

And I think your "bifrication" is already taking place to a degree. A lot of the elements in a great Sp game on th e360 are going to put a severe strain on most peopel's bandwidth. I think you may even see MP and SP versions of a game sold seperately since the technical aspects are going to be very different and with the advent of the Marketplace the whole business model is being revamped due to the ease of distribution and "micro transactions".

Ick - you and I have already seen the bandwidth issues that are coming inot play in MP versions with the need for 1MB or better upload speeds to host full GRAW rooms. And Chromehounds had a lot of issues as well with hardware compatability ... something that SP games don't even have to consider.

I am very interested in seeing the MP side of CoD3, GoW, and RB6 to see what (in my eye) this second generation of 360 titles brings to the table.

From what I have seen....it looks like Call of Duty 3 is just more of the same with vehicles...nothing new or next gen other than the graphics, which IMO looked better in Call of Duty 2....maybe I have seen poor examples?

Rainbow looks good and the demo is great!! OXM out now...demo included!!

Gears of War with two player co-op for the entire story mode with drop-in and drop-out feature for the online partner looks great!! 4 on 4 only in the versus mode but that looks fine with the size of the maps and the level of detail.

November is looking good.

Edited October 27, 2006 by ReapeR eXe

[Deadpreacher]

Gears of War with two player co-op for the entire story mode with drop-in and drop-out feature for the online partner looks great!! 4 on 4 only in the versus mode but that looks fine with the size of the maps and the level of detail.

November is looking good.

Yea GOW's SP and CooP drop in and drop out feature is great! Also with Test drive where the singleplayer and multiplayer are all the same thing!

I just love the GOW feature where i can be playing singleplayer and a friend at any given time can jump in and play with me online without losen a beat. If only more games would take this into action than i could truely call it next gen!

Also like was said before when they maken a new game they should focus more on maken the SP and MP all wrap in one. Not just for CooP, but just so it looks and feels the same when you jump online! Like GRAW & Splinter Cell the SP looked great and felt great, but once you went online everything looked and felt degraded. I would like to see the MP feel and look just as good as the SP.

[CR6]

I don't know what they all got planned for Graw2, but what i would like to see is for them to use the singleplayer engine for the Multiplayer so it feels and runs the same this time around. Not that the MP was all that bad just the Singleplayer blow the Multiplayer out of the water with the graphics and gameplay if you ask me!

I actually would like the opposite to happen: Ubi takes GRAW1's MP engine and uses it for single player. That way, ALL the single player missions would be available for co-op and adversarial MP. (That, and bring the GRAW1 MP engine back to the PC )

To be honest, you are one of the first people I've seen around here that noticed that GRAW's MP engine is different than the SP engine. Most people I know think it's the SAME engine although I noticed the difference pretty quick from the character models and aiming system.

Who else here either thought the SP/MP engines were one and the same or totally different?

[Deadpreacher]

I don't know what they all got planned for Graw2, but what i would like to see is for them to use the singleplayer engine for the Multiplayer so it feels and runs the same this time around. Not that the MP was all that bad just the Singleplayer blow the Multiplayer out of the water with the graphics and gameplay if you ask me!

I actually would like the opposite to happen: Ubi takes GRAW1's MP engine and uses it for single player. That way, ALL the single player missions would be available for co-op and adversarial MP. (That, and bring the GRAW1 MP engine back to the PC )

To be honest, you are one of the first people I've seen around here that noticed that GRAW's MP engine is different than the SP engine. Most people I know think it's the SAME engine although I noticed the difference pretty quick from the character models and aiming system.

Who else here either thought the SP/MP engines were one and the same or totally different?

LOL i'm fine with what ever if its the new GRAW SP engine or the old one just as long as they the same!

Yet i would give them both up just to see GR on the new crisis engine.

Oh P.S.

No matter what engine it gets on the biggest thing i like to see is more Recon please! If not please change the name becuase without it, it just aint Ghost or Recon. Sometimes i think they forgot what the name means. At least be nice enough to start a all new game altogther if they are not going to add it in.

[Dannik]

Yet i would give them both up just to see GR on the new crisis engine.

I can't say it's impossible, but it's incredibly unlikely, although Ubisoft does still own the rights to Cryengine.

Small disclaimer: I'm not certain if it's for perpetuity, for just the Far Cry franchise, or some other arrangement.