The New Nvidia Physx Software & Graw 2

[Forrester]

re-installed GRAW2 and dl'ing drivers now. I wonder what will happen since I have an ancient Geforce 8800 GTS 320mb OC

[jonathan.li]

Same here Rocky, tried the drivers on my 9800GTX and I am getting around 20 fps

Oh well it looks awesome lol

[thales100]

If you have an old Geforce serie 8 card you can use it for PhysX, and keep your 9800 GTX for graphics only, even in a no-SLI compatible MB.

As you can check in this GRAW 2 test published recently by guru3d.com, a GTX 280 alone can handle graphics (all max settings + 16X A) + PhysX (Extreme) even at 2560 x 1600 , but the best results (FPS) are reached with a second GPU (in this case a 9600 GT) exclusive for PhysX.

Edited August 13, 2008 by thales100

[Rocky]

If you disable in PhysX control panel the PhysX acceleration, you wont have PhysX in GRAW 2.

I can't find that panel, do you mean the Nvidia PhysX CP?

re-installed GRAW2 and dl'ing drivers now. I wonder what will happen since I have an ancient Geforce 8800 GTS 320mb OC

It depends which resolution you are happy running at

[thales100]

I can't find that panel, do you mean the Nvidia PhysX CP?

Yeah, the Nvidia PhysX Control Panel, you can find it also in your PC at :

Control Panel -> Additional Options -> Nvidia PhysX

[Rocky]

After some more testing I found basically it is the campaign maps that suck, however the Ageia Island map runs great, 50FPS, so it looks like the other maps were not optimised for PhysX to the same extent as that one. So 8800+ owners can enjoy a free map for the price of that download

[thales100]

What i know for sure is that the result is great, its just like the review at guru3d.com.

The first thing I noticed, much more tree movement based on wind, loads of crap (debris) flying through the air again based on wind direction.

Also dust clouds, which might even be soft particle based, were moving over the ground.

Immediately the game got a little more immersive, though our framerate dropped a little overall, the experience is much richer than what we are used to.

There's just much more happening on that screen.

Edited August 13, 2008 by thales100

[Rocky]

Yeh, but I'm talking about 8800 users Guru3d are using a monster card (£440 for the GTX280) PLUS ideally they said they also had a dedicated 9600 in there.

I have to disagree with what they said too. The dust clouds were unimpressive and definitely not soft particle based from what I saw, the tree sway was really pretty false, and the debris was minimal.

I'm putting a movie up and people can make their own minds up, personally, I was underwhelmed.

Anyone running a monster rig will obviously run with it on and enjoy the explosions, but anyone who cannot get these effects, I would not think too much about it.

[thales100]

Anyone running a monster rig will obviously run with it on and enjoy the explosions, but anyone who cannot get these effects, I would not think too much about it.

Thats what i thought too before playing GRAW 2 with this Nvidia PhysX Extreme, only explosion effects, but definetely not, its a whole new atmosphere, after playing it i have to agree with everything they say.

[Rocky]

When I win the lottery, I'll be right there with ya Thales.

[thales100]

Lol

[Rocky]

Here's a movie showing the explosions.

[thales100]

Ill post some stuff soon bout PhysX Extreme + GRAW 2.

[FI_FlimFlam]

Rocky and everyone,

My take on it, is that it only works well with content optimized for it like Ageia Island as Rocky noted earlier. Below is my info and my experience so far.

Let's see:

OS: Windows XP

Video Card: BFG Tech 880GTS 512MB.

RAM: 2 GB DDRII 800 - OCZ brand

CPU: Intel Core2 Duo 6600 at stock (2.4ghz) - no OC'ing

Audio: Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2

Mobo: Asus P5N32-SLI SE Deluxe

HDD: WD 500MB SataII

Monitor: LG Flatron 22" LCD (L227WTG)

In GRAW2 here's my settings (without listing the Physx setting):

Aspect: 16:10

Refresh: 60

Resolution: 1680x1050

Brightness: 1.0 (middle setting I think)

Environmental Detail: 1.0 (Full)

Texture Quality: High

Texture filtering: Anisotropic 8x

Effects: High

Dynamic Shadows: High

Dynamic lights: On

Post Effects: High

Anti-Aliasing: Off

FPS (First campaign mission, Search and Destroy, used to test):

With Physics Normal, Physx Device None: ~75 dropping to high 50's with explosions

With Physics High, Physx Device None: Not Available

With Physics Normal, Physx Device GForce Physx: ~50 dropping into the low 20's with explosions

With Physics High, Physx Device GForce Physx: (crashed whenever I attempted to load a save game - any save game). Had to start level from beginning and was getting low 20's with no explosions, dipping into the teens when engaging enemies before crashing.

With Physics Xtreme, Physx Device Gforce Physx: Did not attempt.

Weird. Ageia Island didn't have these problems last night and seemed to run smoothly at around 30 fps even the helo engagement didn't stutter. I didn't use FRAPS to get FPS like I did today.

Also of note, I can also select the extreme setting but I did not attempt it.

I also have not downloaded any of the other bonus demos from Nvidia to test or Benchmark with. I'd be interested in seeing how they perform as well.

EDIT: I think it is interesting to note that the FPS seems lower just with the GFORCE Physx enabled even with the setting to normal. Evidently, the my CPU is capable enough to handle the Physics on that setting better than my GPU (which is no slouch) is in addittion to the graphics. If you are not going to enable any higher physics setting, you are most likely NOT going to see any benefit from it performance wise unless you have a second card handling the physics as a dedicated physx processor. At least that it what it would seem to me.

Edited August 13, 2008 by FI_FlimFlam

[thales100]

No, not just Ageia Island Map, ive played all campaign with all max settings plus PhysX Extreme activated, all game experience becomes much richer with PhysX Extreme enabled.

GPUs can run PhysX much (up to 10 x) faster than CPUs.

But you need a powerful card to run GRAW 2 with all max settings and PhysX. Geforce 8800 and even a 9800 GTX seems to be not enough, at least running at 1680 x 1050 and up.

Of course you can use two GPUs, one for graphics and the other for PhysX.

Two other reviews bout GRAW 2 + Nvidia PhysX :

HOTHARDWARE

http://www.hothardware.com/

• Foliage that is affected by wind and players movement

• Palm trees that sway in the wind and break from gunfire and explosions

• Destructible objects (houses, wooden/metal fences, watch towers, walls of sandbags)

• Cloth simulation for clotheslines, tents, and camouflage nets

• Kinetic damage from objects like falling roofs

• All impact and explosion effects are simulated using fluid debris

DriverHeaven

http://www.driverheaven.net/articles.php?articleid=122

"Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 2 is currently the best real world example of this. The graphical changes are noticeable right from the beginning of level one and they are diverse in their implementation. Trees, leaves and tumbleweed react to wind in the environment and other objects react (visually) to various forms of interaction. These changes, some of which are very subtle, really add an extra level of realism to the game world and increase the overall immersion experienced by the end user. This is what gaming should be all about.

We were also impressed by the impact PhysX had on the way we played GRAW 2. With added interaction in the game world we were able to use many more objects to our advantage and realistically we also fell foul of the AI characters ability to do the same! This resulted in a more challenging, realistic and enjoyable game."

High resolution videos :

GRAW 2 + PhysX = http://www.heavenmedia.com/video/physx/videos/graw2on.php

GRAW 2 - PhysX = http://www.heavenmedia.com/video/physx/videos/graw2off.php

Edited August 13, 2008 by thales100

[thales100]

Two more videos (.wmv format), ive just recorded these with Fraps.

NO PHYSX - Flag is static like a wall

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHtvwgjTsg8

PHYSX EXTREME - Flag reacts the way it should for wind and shots

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cj5biLsM6mE

[thales100]

Another GRAW 2 mini video, shooting at concrete, on the first half part PhysX is disabled, on the other PhysX Extreme is enabled.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuHalP4xYT0

Its just an example of course of how much PhysX adds to GRAW 2.

Another stuff really great is all the dust , that brings immersion to the maps.

PhysX most of the time is in the details, youll quickly get used to it and "forget it", but play without it and youll notice immediately.

Edited August 15, 2008 by thales100

[Nightwatch]

I have seen the videos, though seen a difference in visuals when PhysX enabled and not, I've also found the difference -based on those videos- quite minimal. But these are early days, anyway; and as far as I'm aware Nvidia hasn't even officially released this driver, isn't it still on Beta stage. So, it'll get much better in time. But, FPS drops (significant at times) experienced by non-SLI and non 260/280 systems while the driver is active does not offer good news for the majority of the systems around. Having said that, it's true that Nvidia is pushing mainly the 260/280 cards as "PhysX enabled" cards and would definitely recommend those cards for these drivers. And, though it's my opinion only, of course ,and only based on current data, but I guess for the majority of systems, 8 series, even 9 series, this driver may not offer a lot for now.

[thales100]

I have seen the videos, though seen a difference in visuals when PhysX enabled and not, I've also found the difference -based on those videos- quite minimal.

No its not, after playing all campaign with GPU PhysX Extreme, i have to agree with the guru3d review, the experience is much richer than what we are used to. There's just much more happening on that screen.

BTW there is an interesting small review bout PhysX on CPU x Ageia Card x GPU:

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/physx_...ate/default.asp

PhysX on GPU, despite one card running graphics + PhysX, is the fastest option.

Edited August 15, 2008 by thales100

[Nightwatch]

I have seen the videos, though seen a difference in visuals when PhysX enabled and not, I've also found the difference -based on those videos- quite minimal.

No its not, after playing all campaign with GPU PhysX Extreme, i have to agree with the guru3d review, the experience is much richer than what we are used to. There's just much more happening on that screen.

I wouldn't try to refute what you say, and I believe you're correct in your report; I'm merely talking on what I see on the videos. I guess, from what I heard on the post, you have a very powerful graphics card, am I correct? I'm not sure but I'd think it's above the 8800 series Nvidia ones. If so, it'd be quite natural for you to experience the best of the visuals that PhysX can offer with no loss of performance. But from I've read from the posts so far, people who don't have top cards are having some performance issues, and also because the cards are not top end, they don't see "all the godies" of PhysX either. So, I'd argue that this current driver (updates may be much better) does not look offering a lot for 8 series cards, while it certainly can offer more to top ones. More videos will definitely be needed of course.

[thales100]

Sure , yes to run GRAW 2 at all max settings + PhysX Extreme at higher resolutions youll need a powerful GPU. But the new driver also adds the possibility of using two cards even with a non-SLI capable MB, one for PhysX and the other rendering. You can choose what each card will do at the PhysX control panel.

BTW Rocky has opened a thread about GRAW 2 + PhysX with 177.83 driver benchmarks at guru3d forums, you can find it here :

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=270373

[Nightwatch]

Sure , yes to run GRAW 2 at all max settings + PhysX Extreme at higher resolutions youll need a powerful GPU. But the new driver also adds the possibility of using two cards even with a non-SLI capable MB, one for PhysX and the other rendering. You can choose what each card will do at the PhysX control panel.

BTW Rocky has opened a thread about GRAW 2 + PhysX with 177.83 driver benchmarks at guru3d forums, you can find it here :

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=270373

Thank you for the answer. Allocating the PhysX ability to either one of two cards (when there are two cards on board of course) is a clever system actually, I agree. OK, I'll check the link you gave, thanks.

[dporter]

Sure , yes to run GRAW 2 at all max settings + PhysX Extreme at higher resolutions youll need a powerful GPU. But the new driver also adds the possibility of using two cards even with a non-SLI capable MB,

You'd still have to have a mb with two pcix16 slots though right?

[thales100]

Thanks Nightwatch, good luck. Yes dporter, two slots, one for each card.

[ROCO*AFZ*]

Sure , yes to run GRAW 2 at all max settings + PhysX Extreme at higher resolutions youll need a powerful GPU. But the new driver also adds the possibility of using two cards even with a non-SLI capable MB,

You'd still have to have a mb with two pcix16 slots though right?

Yes, but that would give an option for all those who bought a crossfire board... lol and no sli support.