HoppinRaven

Good to hear RSE is back on the job. Besides hoping we can do the constructive thing, I dare say. Rocky already started that on the forum, so let us add to it as securely and specific as we would want to see in the GR4 game. And, finding willing ears, they may yet listen and apply the communities wishes to what the actual assignment for the game is. Hop...

Well the posts I was quoting were all referring to moddability, which is important for people like us who enjoy creating maps and scenarios to play for others. Modders look at the game from their perspective and most importantly if what they put into the map/scenario actually works in play. I am not saying that modders can't be players, mind you, and my findings are from my own persective and I am more a player of the game though I've tried my share in modding (at which I found I am not that good at... yet). With playability I mean how well the game functions for those who play it. On a larger scale: does the game offer the functionality and the expectations one as a player has? As Apexmod points out quite well: GR has a certain feel to it. But so far we all merely nipped at describing that feel of the game. I know and realise full well that that is hard to do. Yet I think it is very important to do, as that alone may give developpers a good idea of what we as a community want from the game. Not just what functionality the game offers, but the feel we get from it. What I like most about GR is that it offers players and modders a full scale of possibilities which not just in modding that scenario but also in playing: it lets you as a player decide fully what route of approach you take. Each and every descision you make determines the lives spent and the outcome of the scenario within the limits of the game. The boundaries of GR were laid in the scene it was set: warfare in personal combat based on the knowhow of the cold war. In GRAW(2) they tried to up the ante on that: personal warfare with technology edge on the urban front. Now Urban warfare is much more limited than the previous scene they took, plus you are stuck to the streets as you cannot bound over a building in a single leap. They limited themselves in the game in choosing this scenario. I am not sure but I think GR was one of the first to take that scene, and blew us of our socks with what the game offered. There was no other game that offered the graphic content, the smooth play, the moddability, the immersion into a reality we (thought we) knew as the cold war and the things we dared dream as black ops. It immersed us into a hard core shooter where one hit could mean your death and failure in the mission. Not a FPS that lets you know you are being shot at because a grenade blew in your face as you reel to find the shooter since in GR you would be dropping to the ground, quite dead and cussing to reload the mission. The game let you be in control of your actions and moves, you knew the enemy was there but not precicely where nor if they had seen you but if you were careful enough you could suprise them and win the day. But at least you were left to your senses: sight, hearing, tactical sense, patience and wits. (You had no darned computer gimmick that tells where your enemy is. First thing I did after playing the tutorial in GRAW was switching those triangles off, then went on my way in the campaign.) I think that scene in which the game is set is one of the key elements what makes the game and in another way how it limits the possibilities therein. I too want a GR remake, a similar scene with more of today's weaponry: how our soldiers in the field fight. But I do want that the game expands and outgrows its shortcomings. Lastly: I am very curious, after all these years and considering this community, how the original developpers wanted this game to be. Is the end result what they truly wanted? And with this day and age's technology in computers, its possibilities and the increase of CPU/GPU power and all that, how they would like to see the game now. Would be wonderful to invite them to this forum! Does all this give more clarity as to what I mean with playability? Hop...

Thanks Tinker, I was going to respond to the "backwards" post too, but you did a much better job than I was going too. Sadly (for today's gamers), going backwards in time to GR would actually be a step forward in many many respects, as you have shown. Well said indeed!. I agree with both Apexmod and Sup, and Tinker you do bring in all very valid points but all are from modder perspective (no offense meant) only. Again they are VERY valid points! From playability perspective I think that GRAW(2) offer more than GR. True the AI gave a lot less hasstle in modding and is, scriptwise, a little more intelligible but again in gameplay I found the AI often very frustrating; single shot headshots from the hip at 200 metres are not very realistic. And don't get me started about glitching... GR worked better on the greater scale of things, but brought annoyances in playing the game all too often. Still GR is way better than so many of the other tactical shooters out there. ArmA brought wonderful scenery but bogged down in playability with the extreme number of possibilities almost as if they were saying: 'hey, why not pick up a toy gun and go play soldier outside? Thats much easier than this game!', but perhaps its just me ;-) I for one, would much rather see a game that incorporates the solidity of modding from GR with the playability from GRAW(2). And hell yes I want that non-linear mission type back too... I am wondering: how long did it take for the development team to put GR in reality? And how much time was spent on the succesor(s) GRAW(2)? Anyone?

Please, don't go giving them ideas! I totally agree there, GR1 was and still is a damn good game. The functionality and the diversity is a very wanted thing indeed. And I very much second on the amount of multiplayer maps, Coops and other. Though I think the emphasis should lie on coop since in the SP campaign you get to lead a team, not do a one man action. Not saying that team versus team or last man standing should not be in it, it is a plus. Would like to add another thing: a Last man standing version where there are AI too!

I would like to add full mod ability: choose what weapon kit you want, what kind of sight, number of mags, number of grenades, side arms, secundary weapon or tankkiller, etcetera. Coop mode for 8 to 12 players would be great, 8 is the utter minimum I think though. Non-linear mission templates would be great. Different COOP modes: Firefight, recon, random number of simple objectives in followup. Would be great if it is possible in programming to add a number of AI in certain COOP types such as in GR 30/60/90/120 and so on enemies plus a base number decided on the number of players. Oh and Infiltrate and extract POW! First person all the way, GRAW2 and GRAW (PC versions) have very solid movement and give a nice and gritty real life feel. Would be fantastic to play the campaign from first step on in COOP instead of doing it alone first. Able to pick up mags and grenades from bodies, and weapons that have been dropped or dumped. Ammo crates (and yes they should go boom when you shoot at them)! Start on leader as it is done in GRAW. The ability to SNEAK and put a knife in an AI's back (the heavier your load though the harder it should be to succesfully sneak up on someone).

Is it possible to put the random spawning from mobs in groups such as patrols, squads, sniper teams and machine gun teams, vehicles, APV's, tanks, heli's you name it into a mod that can be used on a mappack readied for that? I mean it is fun on a single map but to be able to take a whole range of maps would be fantastic! Is there such a mod already? And if so where would I find it? ((been hoping for something like this for a while now, but have not been able to spot anything like it.)) Hop...

If this is still helpful: I have downloaded quite a few mods and NEVER (even when I did not like them) ditched them... got em all stored on DVD. About 4 Gigs worth of Mods still in packed format. Should I send a copy of the DVD with all these mods? If so please contact me via mail. With regards, [WarMonkey] Hoppin'Raven "When in doubt... shoot it again."