["the first GR2pc cancellation"]

[connie lingus]

Not as long as people are expecting - They aren't just starting on [GR3pc] now, it's been in work for some time already.

That was the case with first time GR2 for PC was cancelled almost 2 years ago.

That development team was several months along, before they were disbanded.

I'm not purposely trying to be negative, but there really is no cause for all this optimism due to the past performance.

[griz]

That was the case with first time GR2 for PC was cancelled almost 2 years ago.

That development team was several months along, before they were disbanded.

I'm not purposely trying to be negative, but there really is no cause for all this optimism due to the past performance.

←

thank you for being a realist

[Sup]

Not as long as people are expecting - They aren't just starting on [GR3pc] now, it's been in work for some time already.

That was the case with first time GR2 for PC was cancelled almost 2 years ago.

←

I don't see how you decided that. It just means that very few members of the team were working on GR2 pc.

[WhiteKnight77]

That was the case with first time GR2 for PC was cancelled almost 2 years ago.

←

To clarify, GR2 for PC was in development when they halted production in Sept/Oct of 2004. That is hardly 2 years. It is barely 8 months ago. Please make sure your accurate with your information.

[JT_Snowman]

That was the case with first time GR2 for PC was cancelled almost 2 years ago.

←

To clarify, GR2 for PC was in development when they halted production in Sept/Oct of 2004. That is hardly 2 years. It is barely 8 months ago. Please make sure your accurate with your information.

←

I believe connie is referring to the unsubstantiated claim that RSE abandoned the side by side development of a GR2 PC at the time GR2 Xbox was started which was about 2 years ago.

[Zantar45]

Would make sense.

Should have been obvious when all the Xbox and PS2 screens were released but no PC ones. Same with the news.

Kinda like Rainbow Six 4....

[WhiteKnight77]

It still hasn't been 2 years, after all, GR2 for XBox was first shown at E3 2004, 1 year ago and at that time, side by side development was still going on.

[JT_Snowman]

It still hasn't been 2 years, after all, GR2 for XBox was first shown at E3 2004, 1 year ago and at that time, side by side development was still going on.

←

WK, I can positively confirm that GR2 PC was not in active development at any time near E3 since a particular RSE producer specifically confirmed it with me during the E3 expo (I wont mention his name but can PM you if you're curious).

It is my personal belief that the GR2 PC that we were to see did not begin in earnest until post-E3. And I believe that the scope of that PC version was significantly elevated as a direct result of the uproar from fan sites like gr.net.

[CR6]

To clarify, GR2 for PC was in development when they halted production in Sept/Oct of 2004. That is hardly 2 years. It is barely 8 months ago.

←

A couple of GR.net forum members who visited RSE a few months ago posted on these forums that GR2 PC was STILL in development earlier this year, so RSE did NOT halt production of GR2 PC in fall of 2004.

[Cobblers]

All this GR2 talk is just useless now. The fact is that we are not going to have it released on the PC.

Let's concerntrate on GR3 now, as the GR2 story and the rumours that surround it is getting a bit tiresome.

[WhiteKnight77]

To clarify, GR2 for PC was in development when they halted production in Sept/Oct of 2004. That is hardly 2 years. It is barely 8 months ago.

←

A couple of GR.net forum members who visited RSE a few months ago posted on these forums that GR2 PC was STILL in development earlier this year, so RSE did NOT halt production of GR2 PC in fall of 2004.

←

Of courxe you are right, it was a tempoary pause to get the XBox version out the door.

[Buehgler_AS]

What I would like to know is what happened to the report that ZJJ had hinted at regarding the visit by GR.net folks to RSE. With the demise of GR2 the report seems to have also died

Edited May 4, 2005 by Buehgler_AS

[Dan]

Personally i dont see the point of this.

So GR2 for PC was cancelled. Move on.

We have been told GR3 is being made, you can choose to believe that or you cant.

GR2 PC was the perfect example of a community cutting off its nose to spite its face. We bitched so much about the console versions of "our" new game being crappy, that the desginers cancelled "our" version. Leaving us with nothing. Score 1 for the voice of the community.

Back off, relax, cos what will be will be.

If GR3 comes out, and you dont like it, dont buy it. Simple.

[JT_Snowman]

GR2 PC was the perfect example of a community cutting off its nose to spite its face. We bitched so much about the console versions of "our" new game being crappy, that the desginers cancelled "our" version. Leaving us with nothing. Score 1 for the voice of the community.

←

I'm sorry. I totally disagree with you here. I believe that GR2 PC was a victim of bad strategic planning on RSE's part. I am convinced by the fact that as a result of there not being a dedicated PC development team (confirmed by nearly every dev I talked to at E3 '04) until sometime after E3 May '04, GR2 PC suffered from a lack of developmental resources and ultimately a lack of development time as GR3 for next-gen console loomed near which further required RSE to reshuffle resources. I believe the official line is very much in step with this assertion.

This decision was not an easy one. We did not want to disappoint the loyal Ghost Recon fans, but we did not want to risk releasing a final product that did not meet their high expectations. With the launch of Ghost Recon 3 planned for Winter 2005, significant human resources were needed to ensure the quality of the future instalment of the series, thus potentially jeopardizing the quality of either Ghost Recon 2 PC or Ghost Recon 3. Taking into account their close release dates, and the fact that we felt the third opus would be a much more satisfying and evolved gaming experience, we were forced to conclude that it was in the interest of gamers for us to cancel the PC version of Ghost Recon 2. But Ghost Recon 3 on PC will hit shelves the fourth quarter of 2005, so the wait won’t be long, and will definitely be worth it.

That RSE did not budget a sufficient amount of time nor resources to complete the PC project is no fault of the fans. I not bitching about not getting GR2 PC (although I'd like to). What I really what to get straight is who is accountable for GR2 PC's cancellation. I personnally believe and can confidently say that its not the fault of the fans.

[WhiteKnight77]

The person or persons accountable for RSE's scheduals are Ubisoft themselves. They set the deadlines and RSE is supposed to meet them. Ubi cancelled GR2 for PC. We fans may have had a hand in it with our complaining, but I don't think many of us would have been happy with what we had seen on the XBox even if they had released something for us PC gamers.

[Dan]

As WK says, RSE had nothing to do with the planning and time alottment. But think about it. Read between the lines. GR2 for PC was cancelled cos it was a loser. If they really felt it was worth getting the game out there, GR3 would have been pushed back, like GR2 was.

But what are you going to do? Start a hate campaign against RSE? The only thing you can do is leave them alone, and when the time comes dont buy their products.

It is quite clear, that although the RSE devs do care, the boys up top feel that the PC market is now a secondary market.

[CR6]

I'm sorry.  I totally disagree with you here.  I believe that GR2 PC was a victim of bad strategic planning on RSE's part.  I am convinced by the fact that as a result of there not being a dedicated PC development team (confirmed by nearly every dev I talked to at E3 '04)

←

Yo JT, I still remember and appreciate you sharing with us the info from last year's E3, and I have no doubt what you say about no dedicated GR2 PC by May 2004 is true.

However, I agree with WK that it's unlikely RSE has the final word about how they can allocate their time and resources to projects. I'm guessing Ubisoft has the major say in which projects get priority and manpower.

I also believe that fans' expectations played a part in GR2 PC's demise. Whether it was complaints in forums, or poor previews by mags like PC Gamer, or a fear by Ubi of releasing a shooter that looked dated in a year filled with Counter-Strike: Source and Battlefield 2.

Perhaps Ubi thought it was worth the cost of losing GR2 PC sales than for the Ghost Recon franchise on the PC to get panned by critics (both fans and the media).

Ubi likely analyzed the cost/benefit of cancelling GR2 PC vs. shifting resources to GR3 and you know the rest of the story ...

[Sup]

This decision was not an easy one. We did not want to disappoint the loyal Ghost Recon fans, but we did not want to risk releasing a final product that did not meet their high expectations. With the launch of Ghost Recon 3 planned for Winter 2005, significant human resources were needed to ensure the quality of the future instalment of the series, thus potentially jeopardizing the quality of either Ghost Recon 2 PC or Ghost Recon 3. Taking into account their close release dates, and the fact that we felt the third opus would be a much more satisfying and evolved gaming experience, we were forced to conclude that it was in the interest of gamers for us to cancel the PC version of Ghost Recon 2. But Ghost Recon 3 on PC will hit shelves the fourth quarter of 2005, so the wait won’t be long, and will definitely be worth it.

That RSE did not budget a sufficient amount of time nor resources to complete the PC project is no fault of the fans.

←

I'm sorry, but it seems you know very little about game development.

[BornToKill]

GR3 was a major contribution to the fact GR2 PC was dropped.

GR3 is a next gen game geared for Next Gen Consoles.If GR2 Pc was to, in any way hinder the GR3 project it could not be allowed.GR3 is a much bigger asset to UBI than GR2 PC. GR3 must be ready and on the shelves when next gen consoles go on sale, it's not like GR2 where it can be delayed a month or two.

If they miss the launch window of next gen console launch they will miss a huge sales drive.I also believe GR3 is very possibly a launch title for the Xbox 2.

If GR2 PC was better recieved by the PC community i feel it would have been released.It wasn't, too much needed to be changed for it to be worthy of publishing and not enough time.

The odds were stacked against GR2 PC for these reasons and maybe other factors.

GR3 is worth alot more in sales on all platforms (inc PC) than spending more time on GR2 PC.UBI/RSE simply made a decision that it could not be allowed to hinder progress of GR3.

It does not mean that PC games are no longer worth developing,as many seemed to have jumped to this conclusion.

[KRP 56]

GR2 PC was the perfect example of a community cutting off its nose to spite its face. We bitched so much about the console versions of "our" new game being crappy, that the desginers cancelled "our" version. Leaving us with nothing. Score 1 for the voice of the community.

←

That RSE did not budget a sufficient amount of time nor resources to complete the PC project is no fault of the fans. I not bitching about not getting GR2 PC (although I'd like to). What I really what to get straight is who is accountable for GR2 PC's cancellation. I personnally believe and can confidently say that its not the fault of the fans.

←

I agree the fan complaints wasn't the reason we have no GR2 as most of the complaints were about the crappy linear missions and I'm sure RSE must have enough talent on their staff to be able to remedy that easy enough. I think it was because the GR2 console versions sold so well they wanted to use their resources for GR3 for consoles. They've sold their sole for the console.

[JT_Snowman]

This decision was not an easy one. We did not want to disappoint the loyal Ghost Recon fans, but we did not want to risk releasing a final product that did not meet their high expectations. With the launch of Ghost Recon 3 planned for Winter 2005, significant human resources were needed to ensure the quality of the future instalment of the series, thus potentially jeopardizing the quality of either Ghost Recon 2 PC or Ghost Recon 3. Taking into account their close release dates, and the fact that we felt the third opus would be a much more satisfying and evolved gaming experience, we were forced to conclude that it was in the interest of gamers for us to cancel the PC version of Ghost Recon 2. But Ghost Recon 3 on PC will hit shelves the fourth quarter of 2005, so the wait won’t be long, and will definitely be worth it.

That RSE did not budget a sufficient amount of time nor resources to complete the PC project is no fault of the fans.

←

I'm sorry, but it seems you know very little about game development.

←

@ sup: And you know so much because?

Hey look. So how far off base am I when I'm saying that GR2 PC was a badly planned and sourced project? I like RSE games as just as much as the next fan but its is so plain to me that development support and time for this project was insufficient. Hello?! This is in fact the official line!

I believed you probably have some unfound faith that somehow RSE and/or Ubisoft does not make bad decisions in planning (in which case you would be wrong) and that may be the reason for your optimism.

But having followed the development of the PC project and well as some probing discussion with the a few devs, I am convined the the scope and strategic planning for the development of GR2 PC was sorely unsound by the standards of previous RSE projects.

RSE as much as you may like them made stretegic errors as did their publisher as well. However, it just seems absurd that you don't hold RSE accountable for the PC cancellation given the obvious third class treatment its received over the past year!

Now if I'm still so off base sup and you obviously know the industry as well as you posture yourself to. Please enlighten us!

Edited May 6, 2005 by JT_Snowman

[Sup]

This decision was not an easy one. We did not want to disappoint the loyal Ghost Recon fans, but we did not want to risk releasing a final product that did not meet their high expectations. With the launch of Ghost Recon 3 planned for Winter 2005, significant human resources were needed to ensure the quality of the future instalment of the series, thus potentially jeopardizing the quality of either Ghost Recon 2 PC or Ghost Recon 3. Taking into account their close release dates, and the fact that we felt the third opus would be a much more satisfying and evolved gaming experience, we were forced to conclude that it was in the interest of gamers for us to cancel the PC version of Ghost Recon 2. But Ghost Recon 3 on PC will hit shelves the fourth quarter of 2005, so the wait won’t be long, and will definitely be worth it.

That RSE did not budget a sufficient amount of time nor resources to complete the PC project is no fault of the fans.

←

I'm sorry, but it seems you know very little about game development.

←

@ sup: And you know so much because?

Hey look. So how far off base am I when I'm saying that GR2 PC was a badly planned and sourced project? I like RSE games as just as much as the next fan but its is so plain to me that development support and time for this project was insufficient. Hello?! This is in fact the official line!

I believed you probably have some unfound faith that somehow RSE and/or Ubisoft does not make bad decisions in planning (in which case you would be wrong) and that may be the reason for your optimism.

But having followed the development of the PC project and well as some probing discussion with the a few devs, I am convined the the scope and strategic planning for the development of GR2 PC was sorely unsound by the standards of previous RSE projects.

RSE as much as you may like them made stretegic errors as did their publisher as well. However, it just seems absurd that you don't hold RSE accountable for the PC cancellation given the obvious third class treatment its received over the past year!

Now if I'm still so off base sup and you obviously know the industry as well as you posture yourself to. Please enlighten us!

←

That was an awfully hostile response...

Anyway, trying to say simply that shifting people onto a new project (or the cancellation of another) is the product of poor management of time is a foolish thing to do. Videogames push tight deadlines with a lot of workers, and a lot of that is planned out, but there's always a certain chance that things change, or unpredictable variables come into effect.

Finally, if intentional, this was likely a good decision for Ubisoft and RSE. The PC fanbase was pretty much lost for GR2, and with E3 so soon, extra developers to produce their demo became very important.

You can be angry with the developers if you wish, but accusing them of irrational (and inconsistent -- It can't have been cancelled long ago and a result of poor management in the last few months) isn't awfully productive or reasonable.

(Finally, I'm not a great fan of UBI's decision makers, and GR is the only RSE game I really play.)

[Dan]

Now that people are getting nice and shirty, thought id point out this thread is completely pointless.

[connie lingus]

That was the case with first time GR2 for PC was cancelled almost 2 years ago.

←

To clarify, GR2 for PC was in development when they halted production in Sept/Oct of 2004. That is hardly 2 years. It is barely 8 months ago. Please make sure your accurate with your information.

←

I cannot reseach all the intel that was leaked in this forum but allow me to refresh your memory:

http://www.ghostrecon.net/forums/index.php...46entry121646

[Colin]

Why are certain members continually bringing up the past, racking through the same old crap, its BORING if ya gonna post, make it a bit more ORIGINAL for Gods Sake

Right on Dan

Edited May 30, 2005 by =SEALZ=Colin