liteluvr

Don't flame me, cuz it's late and I didn't want to read this whole thread, but for a loooong time now I've felt that game developers have taken a colossal step sideways. I won't say backwards, because the games are still somewhat enjoyable... to a degree... But they most definitely didn't take a step forward, or even stand on the shoulders of what [GR] was all about. I vividly remember when GRAW was in dev.... all the talk, sniping, flaming, hoping and praying... and the general consensus was that all we really wanted was what we already had with more modern graphics. Sure some new functionality like using vehicles, etc. would have been nice, but certainly not at the cost of losing the close-knit tactical team-based play we'd gotten used to (and admit it... completely hooked on). So, here we are, 3 years later, and still playing [GR]... In a rational, logical universe, you'd think that it'd count for something... that somewhere a developer would think "Hey... maybe they really were serious... they really did want just what they had, only more up to date..." But I guess I'm just a dreamer. But if I ever get rich, I'm gonna start me a game company, and I'm gonna build what we all wanted (0r at least what I wanted, anyway)..... And if I'm wrong, then I'll be broke, but with one helluva game.... ;O)

WOW.... sounds like a little slice o' heaven. My old clan got all wrapped up in Battleflop 2 and ditched [GR]... so I pretty much ditched them. Haven't played MP [GR] in close on to 2 years I guess.... I'll have to drop in sometime.

Agree w Lightspeed.... great concept. Something that shoulda been done years ago. Don't know HOW many time I found myself saying "if I could only do THIS to the map, or THAT to the map, it woulda been a much better map", not to mention fixing the occasional map glitch. Keep it up Ronin....

eBay

Talkin about all the negative posts and vibes.... Where there's SMOKE, there's usually FIRE....

Rabbi.... Whatcha askin for that PPU? Now that it's all USED and broken in?

Then (A), you've missed the point of most of the posts that I'VE been reading... cuz they're centered around performance issues, not gameplay... And (B), only speaking for myself, I did NOT expect GR1.... I expected BETTER... 1) Better Tactical Implementation, sorry... but the team AI are idiots... I started using them for cannon fodder and to keep ME from getting shot at. 2) Better Play Types... Don't know exactly WHAT I was expecting here, I suppose an enhancement of the basic Team Seige, CTF, SAR types of play... What we GOT was Battlefield 2 run-n-gun on a smaller scale, without benefit of tanks to hide in... (which bolsters point 1 above) 3) A GOOD editor. The AW editor has 1 thing I really like... the ability to see objects (read: vehicles) as they're placed. And for all it's drawbacks, the scripting gui in IGOR beats the hell out of ANYTHING that is going to require me to write in XML... (And, yes, I understand XML, I write content for it daily) 4) Dedicated Servers. Nuff said... That horse has been led to water, put in the deep end, and had it's head held under... we're just waiting for the mouth to open so it can die peacefully...... What GRIN DID deliver (and my hat really IS off to you guys....), was: 1) Beautiful Graphics..... assuming you got the horsepower to run em.... 2) Immersive maps.... More rural woulda been nice, but hey... that's what you pay modders for.... 3) Some pretty wicked (IMHO) enemy AI.... they're not geniuses... but they make the ones in GR1 look like stumps... 4) Extra weapons... the current enhaced kits rock.... I never could get my head around why I had to sacrifice nades in favor of a pistol... KUDOS.... 5) A nice sense of continuity in the campaign. That's more a scripting kudo than anything else, but since it was content outta the box.... there ya go) 6) Real world support... it was nice to see the Longbows blowing through taking out tanks with hellfire missles at the embassy and other maps. GR1 could do it, but it was always 'implied' that the cavalry came to the rescue.... it's a subtle nuance, but a big one in my book. And, I could go on.... my point is, that GRIN delivered a LOT of REALLY nice stuff in AW... and I'm sure there's a lot more content on the way... it's just unfortunate that it's been sooo undermined by the performance issues that DON'T appear to have any impending resolution. You can pimp my ride all day long.... but if I ain't got no gas..... I'm walking....

Ditto for me Papa.... Looks like I'll be seein ya in the boonies.... drop me a line with IP info for your servers you hang on, and I'll look you up..

And y'know.... fan disappointment aside, that's the real shame in this fiasco.... GRIN gets shafted on their first major undertaking because the twits at UBI hamstrung them. Sadly, these are the things that can ruin a good software house's reputation. I sincerely hope that the GRIN team can weather this storm to go on to produce some more titles that might be winners.... they honestly seem like a good bunch of guys, and I DO understand the limits under which UBI may have placed them with regards to what they're allowed to tell us. GRIN, file those away under lessons learned.....

If they're not interested in even READING honest feedback, however negative it might be, then we might as well turn out the lights, cuz the party's over.... What I want them to tell us is simply the truth.... or as much as UBI will let them tell. Now, don't get all hot and bothered that I'm calling anyone a liar, cuz I'm not... saying nothing is not a lie... it's just... nothing... I don't want UBI/GRIN to tell me what I want to hear.... (although that'd be awesome ) What I want is some plain unvarnished facts about where the game stands, the performance issues, the play modes, etc. If the stance on performance is "suck it up and get a better machine, or go play solitaire", so be it... now I know what to expect, and can make the decision to continue playing, or focus my attentions elsewhere. As for some other gametypes/mods/maps, etc... I have no doubt those will come, either from GRIN or the mod community. Either way is fine, but my point was, and still is, that the game has to perform or it's all a lost cause. Don't get me wrong, I'm not attacking GRIN... Software development is at best a thankless job, because you can never get it the way YOU think it needs to be... and you always worry about how much of your user base will like this feature, hate that feature, etc... It's impossible to hit a happy medium, so you draw a likely target, and hope like hell you get close. To GRIN_DrHanke, and any other GRIN staff perusing these forums... please don't take these comments as attacks. Speaking for myself, I'm venting my frustrations at having a year's worth of expectations fizzle more and more as I played the game. My point in that particular post was merely that silence speaks volumes when nothing else is heard...

Interesting observation here..... while reviewing the recent posts in this thread a few moments ago... I noticed another member reading the posts... a GRiN_DrHanke.... And yet oddly enough... not a single post from anyone with GRIN to even acknowledge the topic, the situation, or even that there might be a problem..... IMHO, that speaks VOLUMES.... Call this confrontational, adversarial, or whatever you want, but I think it's high time some GRIN people weighed in on this topic.

I wouldn't begin to dispute the sage comments set forth in this discussion, especially those regarding the maturation process of a classic like GR1, and the need for a similar process for GRAW.... But, I would offer one critical observation of this parallel to the developer group... GR1 was playable, effective and stable from the first day I popped the CD in and installed it. That bought the developers a world of time to make improvements, fix those nasty bugs, and concentrate on delivering new mods and features. To date, that hasn't been the case with GRAW. Gamers by and large will be content with less content to start, if the platorm is robust and stable. Add to that the bonus of mod-ability and scripting, and the developers have even more time to deliver to an already largely happy fan-base. As I've stated in another thread, UBI/GRIN seems to have failed to learn from the successes of the past. First, UBI literally slapped the PC community in the face with the withdrawl of GR2... (sorry gang.... you just don't matter...) then, they forced what, IMHO opinion, is at best a very good beta version on the public, with full trumpets and fanfare, proclaiming it to be the rightful successor to the GR throne. UBI/GRIN KNEW ahead of time that modability was a tremendous requirement for this game, and the amount of play centered around team coop/mission tournaments in GR1 would have been enough for a blind man to see what the fan base wanted. Multiple MP game types were also a requirement. A large number of the GR players got very used to those CTF, LMS, etc. MP styles of playing. GRAW MP delivered a multiplayer game like BattleField2, only without unlimited respawns, big maps, vehicles, multi-level maps (sorry boys... stairs just don't cut it), smooth graphics, good performance.... I better stop... BF 2 is starting to sound good again... And communications to the userbase is something of a joke.... the only news updates on the Ghostrecon.com are for the xbox 360, with no current news to speak of for the pc gang. I get more up to date intel on GRAW on THIS site, than I do on their own site. I will commend some of the dev guys at GRIN for their participation in the forums on this site. It's a good gesture of faith, and my hat's off to you guys. But again, I challenge you to listen to what the fan base is REALLY saying... sure there's a lot of requests for one game type or another, anti-cheat, etc... but at the end of the day, what's the point in adding this stuff if 80% of your potential customer base can't play the stinkin' game? In business speak, that's called developing to a niche market, and if you're gonna give up volume, you sure better beef up your margins... And like always, nothing stays in a vacuum... if YOU don't make GRAW the game the public needs it to be, someone else will make one that is.... it might not have the Ghost Recon moniker, but at the end of the day, I'll bet most folks won't care one whit about that... if it gives them what they want, they'll buy it. And GRAW will just be one more piece of shelfware that people will buy on eBay in 5 years for a couple of bucks, when they have eventually upgraded their hardware to be able to run it. The choice is up to you developers... as for me, my interest is already waning to the point that GR1 is looking mighty fine... and I can develop new content for that until my fingers fall off. At this point, GRAW is more or less a game I payed 50 bucks for that I'll probably pack up and put in the closet along with Wing Commander, Flight Simulator, Diablo, Crusader, and a host of others... the only real difference being that with those, I felt like I got more than my money's worth....

LOL.... what a sense of deja vu... I did post this in another forum, but realized this was probably a more appropriate place for it, so I moved it. I understand what you mean about patience... I too am waiting... some days more patiently than others. As for fixed... I guess what gets 'fixed' depends on what the developers see as being 'broken'... an age old problem. But, nonetheless... if they're reading this forum and others, they know what the problems are, and what the user base is going through... so it's pretty much up to them to deliver or not. I understand that Rome wasn't built in a day, and GR1 didn't become the ever-lovin classic it is on the first release either... but it was pretty stable... and it was pretty playable... and this one ain't.... either one.... So.... time will tell..... in the meantime, I'm going back to finishing off some of my GR1 mods that I had been working on.... LOL..

Rabbi..... go ahead... I'm thick skinned.... LOL

Take a gander at Red Square in Moscow... do a screencap and overlay the command map.... it's not too far off.