101459 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Will the the DRM that looks likely to appear on the GR:FS (PC), (forum thread here) play a decisive role in your purchasing GR:FS? Edit: obviously there are other things that may play a much larger role as to whether a particular OGR Fan will/won't purchase GR:FS (PC) -- just trying to take the temperature as to whether this is an additional or last straw effecting interest... Edited January 27, 2012 by 101459 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeealex Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) i voted console. i want to play the game not be punished for buying it what i don't understand is that Ubi will sit there and waste time, effort and money finding an "anti piracy strategy" that will save them so much money, but what they don't realise is that Activision have been allowed to rip them off left right and centre with their cheesy run and gun wannabe known as call of duty modern warfare! meaning they already lost millions of dollars right there and yet more because they insist on this crud! they lost a hell of a lot more due to delays and their ignorance to what people want. that is probably twice as much money lost to those things alone than what the figures are predicted to be on piracy. if they just brought it out with an open mind and took piracy in their stride they would realise actually how much money they would get. if they got on with MAKING THE GAME A GREAT GAMEPLAY EXPERIENCE FOR PC AND CONSOLE USERS piracy wouldn't be an issue to them! sorry, i'm ranting, i'll shut up now. Edited January 27, 2012 by Zeealex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101459 Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) I wouldn't buy it if someone paid me to take it. Awww! And I was seriously considering paying you to play it... Love your mod btw! i voted console. i want to play the game not be punished for buying it what i don't understand is that Ubi will sit there and waste time, effort and money finding an "anti piracy strategy" that will save them so much money, but what they don't realise is that Activision have been allowed to rip them off left right and centre with their cheesy run and gun wannabe known as call of duty modern warfare! meaning they already lost millions of dollars right there and yet more because they insist on this crud! they lost a hell of a lot more due to delays and their ignorance to what people want. that is probably twice as much money lost to those things alone than what the figures are predicted to be on piracy. if they just brought it out with an open mind and took piracy in their stride they would realise actually how much money they would get. if they got on with MAKING THE GAME A GREAT GAMEPLAY EXPERIENCE FOR PC AND CONSOLE USERS piracy wouldn't be an issue to them! sorry, i'm ranting, i'll shut up now. Not at all, I think you're right, and I said somethign similar here... If they just spent as much as they'll spend on DRM (never mind the cost of revenue lost due to onerous DRM), on making a quality port, the sales they'd recover on PC would more then make up the difference... Well we can dream... Edited January 27, 2012 by 101459 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RileyFletcher_01 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Love your mod btw! Thanks, glad you like it. Texas Militia is going good and should be done sometime later this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petsfed Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I think you should've included the 4th option "I'm not buying it for other reasons", just to normalize things a bit. I find UBI's DRM onerous, and if I had planned on buying the game, I might reconsider. I can't honestly say that it breaks the game in my mind though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101459 Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) I think you should've included the 4th option "I'm not buying it for other reasons", just to normalize things a bit. I find UBI's DRM onerous, and if I had planned on buying the game, I might reconsider. I can't honestly say that it breaks the game in my mind though. I understand, but I wanted a poll that focuses on the GRN Fans that essentially do think it's likely they'll buy the game, to see how the news about Ubisoft's DRM might effect their choice, and tried to qualify that by saying: "...obviously there are other things that may play a much larger role as to whether a particular OGR Fan will/won't purchase GR:FS (PC) -- just trying to take the temperature as to whether this is an additional or last straw effecting interest..." I think it's already clear that there are plenty of GR Fans that won't be buying the game for reasons that have nothing to do with DRM, and onerous DRM just makes them even more certain of that decision. Along the lines of your suggestion though it might be interesting to create a separate poll to discover what it is that's the strongest turn off in GR:FS for GR Fans, whether it be: · third-person perspective · the science fiction features and content · paucity of game modes · your pet OGR feature here etc. It may not be any 'one thing' but it would be interesting to see if there is something that prevails in the negative reactions many have had. Edited January 27, 2012 by 101459 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkAuthority Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Well, I will buy the game. The DRM in place remains discouraging, yet there's buying and ignoring it or getting upset and not buying what would mean not playing as well (especially online). So that's the dilemma. I'd rather buy, be able to play and bit*h about the protection rather than not buy and still bit*h both about the protection and myself being unable to play... so there's that. Edited January 27, 2012 by DarkMagic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101459 Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) I'm really on the fence; even though this obviously won't be a spiritual sequel to the OGR I know and love, I'm an easy mark for anything with the Ghost Recon moniker if just because it may have the the vaguest 'essence' of what I covet in tactical realism game design. But, from what I understand Ubisoft is trying to do with their new DRM scheme -- I find myself in complete epistemological opposition; i.e. it appears they want you to only be able to play the game on one PC... So not only is the DRM onerous, I rather anticipate there will be a new flavor of license that goes with it; probably something along the lines of: 'you don't own the game, but only license it for limited use on one PC, and Ubisoft reserves the right to collect information about you, your PC, and it's contents and resell that information'... So, while I'm sure I'll buy the game eventually, I'll most likely play a careful game of wait and see, and if it looks like I'm ultimately only renting the game for limited use on one PC I'll wait till it's on Gamer's Gate for $5 before I make the jump... Edited January 27, 2012 by 101459 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parabellum Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Ubi's DRM scheme will definitely keep me from purchasing GR:FS. Even though I dislike the direction that Ubi has taken the GR series, I typically do purchase the titles eventually, just to check them out, and I enjoy them to one degree or another (minus the abysmal Rainbow Six games of late. *shudder* ). In the past six months though, I've had to replace two graphics cards, a stick of RAM, and I've put in a second hard drive. If my understanding of (to borrow 101459's wording) Ubi's onerous new DRM is correct, then I would no longer be able to play any Ubi games using this new DRM. Why should I be punished for having to replace hardware on my machine? The need to protect a company's intellectual property and revenue source is understandable, but not at the cost of penalizing players for upgrading and/or repairing their machines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApexMods Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I definitely won't buy Future Soldier with Ubisoft's draconian DRM. By now I don't buy anything anymore that even requires entering a serial number, let alone online activation or other BS like that. Apple's App Store, Steam, Desura, etc. offer one-click buy'n'play solutions without cumbersome DRM schemes, so why anyone would expose him/herself to the ineptitude of developers with moronic proprietary DRM in this day and age is beyond me. When the price drops to less than $10 I might reconsider, but only if there's a working crack out there to "fix" the DRM problem, and only because of the words "Ghost Recon" on the cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101459 Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) I'm encouraged by ApexMods and Parabellum's strong, mature and accountable reactions; there's little to motivate the direction of business but revenue and what works to that end without accountable Consumerism. What never ceases to surprise and disappoint me is the one Developer/Publisher with the ip that has the most potential to attract and sustain my interest is also the one that seems the most hell bent on dashing that property on the rocks of virtually every cardinal 'no-no' of the gaming industry and sound business practice in general. From an increasing emphasis on linear melodramatic narrative that would be more befitting of move/toy tie-in merchandising for franchises like G.I. Joe and Barbie; to over five generations of rebooting of some of the most Draconian DRM middleware; proven to be most miserable failures in the industry bar none. Ubisoft could take a lesson from one of Johanna Blakely's nervous lectures on ip law and copyright, in fact I'd recommend anyone that can sit still for fifteen minutes give Lessons from fashion's free culture: Johanna Blakley on TED.com a look, the facts and numbers are sure to surprise. Edited January 30, 2012 by 101459 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custard~SPARTA~ Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Voted definately not going to purchase, if in the future the DRM does get cracked I may buy the game from the bargain bin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRP 56 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 NO THANKS UBI You've pretty much ruined all things that were great with the GR/R6 franchise. Now your all drunk on DRM! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossix Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 No purchase for me if there is : DRM and Third Person View. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingkat Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I am definarely interested in this game. I have the series and am always hoping this will be a good game. I may wait a while though.............DRM is a concern. I have hope for this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101459 Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) While the poll is completely unscientific, and the sample size is far too small to even tell us anything about the registered GRN audience; the strength of the sentiments I see mirrored here on GRN, on Ubisoft's forum, Steam Ubispft game forums, and among my friends and acquaintances about Ubisoft DRM is virtually the same and should be troubling to more then just Ubisoft's paying Customers... Considering how people act/react and how that's (for better or worse) amplified and mitigated by 'social media' -- it seems to me a plausible assumption that for the 'some' that will not buy a game because of onerous DRM, many 'others' that may be indifferent to or unknowing of DRM issues may well also not buy because the friends they want to game with have put their foot down and won't be buying -- ergo playing with people you know, like and care about is statistically significant factor effecting sales outcomes. This could make for an interesting premise to examine in a marking tools Whitepaper or Business Masters Thesis; numerous studies show that Consumer 'piracy' has virtually zero negative effect on sales, in fact in many markets it's been shown to have a positive net effect likely due to free Guerrilla marketing push effect. Original Ghost Recon offers one obvious example: the game's CD check DRM was thwarted the day the game went on sale, yet Ghost Recon went on to slow burn sales of over eleven million units with a marketing and advertising budget that was minuscule even by 1999 standards... Could onerous DRM have the same or stronger effect then bad publicity cascading into poor sales performance? It certainly seems like a plausible outcome considering what we can see and measure in terms of friends and acquaintances interest in various games diminish not only in direct proportion to the scale of issues and limitations presented by a particular DRM scheme, but in proportion to the number of their friends and acquaintances that play a particular game. There is also what should be considered a glaring 'poster child' of onerous DRM in GFWL, which had issues that resulted in record payment cancellations of over 30% of sales due to 'unable to play issues' across two titles, and running two studios nearly into the ground. This sort of thing should ring bells not only at Microsoft (and any Studio considering GFWL as a DRM solution) but by any Developer/Publisher circling the drain of profitability as these were Customers that wanted to play the game, proved it with their purchase, and were willing to go through the hoops to to cancel credit card and PayPal payments in record numbers in repudiation of game licensure. Edited February 6, 2012 by 101459 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinker Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 DRM stinks, simple as. causes nothing but trouble for the paying customer, while pirates play with no issues at all. Spend some cash on hunting down the hosts of sites that provide links to downloading files for free. Not rocket science. See a few recently been arrested in the news. Vote is missing, will but after other reviews from playing, and only in the bargain bin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101459 Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Vote is missing, will but after other reviews from playing, and only in the bargain bin. I assume you mean 'buy after other reviews' -- and the poll was only really intended to see if Ubisoft increasingly onerous and frustrating DRM will discourage initial sales; which are up to 'sell through' are the only sales the company will be concerned about the effects of product features and marketing on sales performance. Edited February 7, 2012 by 101459 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingkat Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I spoke too soon. The DRM worries me less than the "Third" person view? Really? That just loses it for me. Gotta have FPV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101459 Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) I spoke too soon. The DRM worries me less than the "Third" person view? Really? That just loses it for me. Gotta have FPV. Well this isn't really the thread for that kind of objection, we've known from get-go that GR:FS was a TPS, and heck OGR wasn't even technically a literal or 'pure' FPS, it had a unique 'Ghost Perspective'... What I feel is so objectionable about the DRM vs various game design decisions; is the game design is explicit, public, well illustrated and known -- the DRM on the other hand looks like it's going to be another 'personal enrichment experience' for a lot of paying Customers that looks like it has way too much potential to deliver a lot of not so pleasant surprises; all well and fine if they're only being dealt to thieves, but as 'AAA' titles creep toward three digit price points, it's really not acceptable to be jerking your paying Customers around this way... Especially so when there are so many better proven alternatives... Edited February 8, 2012 by 101459 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa6 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 What I'm waiting on is actual reviews AFTER the game is out for a bit. no need to buy into a game if the DRM protects a game that turns out to be rubbish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101459 Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) Ah, here we go, this explains it all: Ubisoft should hire this guy, their DRM message would actually make sense. Edited February 23, 2012 by 101459 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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