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Give Me Back My Old Ghost Recon, Rejuvenated! That's All!

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Probably the last remaining true tactical FPS realism game is of the ongoing BIS OFP/ARMA series, started with Operation Flashpoint: Cold War Crisis, 2001 (plus the BIS expansion pack Resistance), that is still played and highly acclaimed, the series are somewhat less acessible to the casual player, so the community is regarded as formed mostly of true fans, die-hard players.

I own and enjoy all the BI OFP and ArmA games and expansions; and even bought VBS-1 and 2... Where ArmA falls down for me and Ghost Recon still sets the bar is the man-machine interface. ArmA may offer higher resolution simulation and more realistic control granularity, but Ghost Recon's control interface is more intuitive and realistic to me; i.e. operations that come effortlessly and naturally in the real world are effortless and natural in Ghost Recon as well. Granted if you play ArmA a lot, and tweak it's control setup enough you can get something that approximates Ghost Recon -- but those hours spent learning and fiddling in ArmA, are hours spent playing and exploring Ghost Recon's tactical depth -- which translates (for this Tactical Realism FAn anyway) to less frustration; and more challenge and fun...

zorro.gif

Edited by 101459

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I own and enjoy all the BI OFP and ArmA games and expansions; and even bought VBS-1 and 2... Where ArmA falls down for me and Ghost Recon still sets the bar is the man-machine interface. ArmA may offer higher resolution simulation and more realistic control granularity, but Ghost Recon's control interface is more intuitive and realistic to me; i.e. operations that come effortlessly and naturally in the real world are effortless and natural in Ghost Recon as well. Granted if you play ArmA a lot, and tweak it's control setup enough you can get something that approximates Ghost Recon -- but those hours spent learning and fiddling in ArmA, are hours spent playing and exploring Ghost Recon's tactical depth -- which translates (for this Tactical Realism FAn anyway) to less frustration; and more challenge and fun...

zorro.gif

Totally agree with this point.

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[...]Where ArmA falls down for me and Ghost Recon still sets the bar is the man-machine interface. ArmA may offer higher resolution simulation and more realistic control granularity, but Ghost Recon's control interface is more intuitive and realistic to me; i.e. operations that come effortlessly and naturally in the real world are effortless and natural in Ghost Recon as well.[...]

Very well put (like most of your posts, btw)! Couldn't agree more, as I tried to explain earlier in this threat.

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I own and enjoy all the BI OFP and ArmA games and expansions; and even bought VBS-1 and 2... Where ArmA falls down for me and Ghost Recon still sets the bar is the man-machine interface. ArmA may offer higher resolution simulation and more realistic control granularity, but Ghost Recon's control interface is more intuitive and realistic to me; i.e. operations that come effortlessly and naturally in the real world are effortless and natural in Ghost Recon as well. Granted if you play ArmA a lot, and tweak it's control setup enough you can get something that approximates Ghost Recon -- but those hours spent learning and fiddling in ArmA, are hours spent playing and exploring Ghost Recon's tactical depth -- which translates (for this Tactical Realism FAn anyway) to less frustration; and more challenge and fun...

zorro.gif

Totally agree with this point.

Very well said and just like you I have most of them even VBS-2 (sadly no VBS-1) the way I see it the OGR crowd enjoys both aspects of the game

SP/MP and the game works out of the box on the other hand BI SP experience is...well..... BAD (enjoyed OFP), never the less they are my favorite developer nowdays because of their support and they listen the community just like RSE did back in the day

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You'd think with this many shout-outs here alone leading up to a release they'd wise up and give us what we actually want... I mean, what everyone is posting is freaking hard not to understand...

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As Ubisoft seems to be in permanent U(bisoft)-turn mode as of late - as witnessed by their back-and-forth about (not?) releasing(!) Future Soldier for PC (or not?) and their little DRM shuffle - there might yet be an, admittedly small, chance for them to finally see the light (well, some light) on this one too and surprise us all by toning down the clown factor of GR:FS somewhat.

It's probably too late in the development cycle (read: devs might be too lazy) to implement first-person view in addition to third-person puppet view, and the cover system (read: low-walls-everywhere-system) spells doom for realistic map layout, but they could at least implement a sort of "Less Ridiculous Mode" that disables the Harry-Potter-invisibility-cloak security blankets, RoboCop robotic legs, StarWars force fields, Superman X-ray vision, shoulder-mounted missile launchers (couldn't even find any comic hero with this), and the neon circles and bottle openers on weapons.

No, I am not saying that Ubisoft could perform the miracle of turning Future Soldier into a true Ghost Recon game, but if there is the off-chance for them to at least limit the sacrilegious impact of GR:FS on the holy name of Ghost Recon, I'd be all for it.

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I think the ArmA series is much better than the first ghost recon pc game, the first ghost recon is kind of meh to me now, so glad Ubisoft changed the formula if i'm honest. But i appreciate those that like the originals. The first PC Ghost Recon game and Rainbow Six series were great but for me it's the past and i prefer the present and future technology in every way. I will purchase ArmA 3 because i do enjoy what BI have to offer.

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Man, if you think Future Soldier has a better formula than Ghost Recon 1.....

I'm extremely excited about Ground Branch -- maybe it will turn out to be the 'Ghost Recon 2' that we never got.

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How hard can it be to take the OLD GR and just add the new LOOK of todays games? REALLY. You don't need to make a NEW game out of it, just add new maps , and update the look. All new titles nowadays SUCK. Small maps , limited choices, but hey , more cutscreens ( yaaaaa, NOT ). I would be so , so happy to have the ORIGINAL GR game ( and / or Rainbow six ) just updated with NEW maps, plus the old ones. Is it really that hard to do? Skip all the mindless new CReP they add to the game to make it NEW, yet ship on what made it GREAT. View distance is so missing in todays new games. The last good one to me was FAR CRY. Todays game have gone a step backwards, not forwards.. Buildings or moutains or the sun blocking your long range view. I just dont get it ( Well the developers seem to not get it is a better way of putting it). Just build UPON the game , not reinvent it. Anyboby play the old Rainbow Six game on PC and console? Remember the difference between them? Maps bigger, sutters in windows could be opened and closed .ect.... Give me what I ( and I HOPE you ) want, and my money would flow freely. I'll be waiting to buy ( BURNT too many times HOPING the game will rock , to just be let down) the new one. I'll be waiting for reviews from people who play it. TY for being my GUINNEA PIGS.

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Actually original GR maps are pretty small when you think about it. The fog is also limiting. And if you think all modern games have limited view distances you aint seen ARMA and VBS. :P (and the modern operation flashpoint games IIRC)

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Man, if you think Future Soldier has a better formula than Ghost Recon 1....

I forgot to add ...i mean for the single player, don't get me wrong Ghost Recon sp was awesome in its day, i can't really give an opinion on Ghost Recon mp because i never got into it, tried a couple of times but just not my thing. Rainbow Six Raven Shield coop and S.W.A.T 4 coop were the only online games i enjoyed over a period of time if i'm honest.

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I think the ArmA series is much better than the first ghost recon pc game, the first ghost recon is kind of meh to me now, so glad Ubisoft changed the formula if i'm honest. But i appreciate those that like the originals. The first PC Ghost Recon game and Rainbow Six series were great but for me it's the past and i prefer the present and future technology in every way. I will purchase ArmA 3 because i do enjoy what BI have to offer.

GR1 is only "meh" to you now because it's many years later and technology has advanced. Back in the day, I couldn't get enough of it. :)

I mean, can you believe people use to play any games on the Atari? Talk about meh... ;)

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GR1 is only "meh" to you now because it's many years later and technology has advanced

I used to be that way. Never wanted to touch the damned thing because of the graphics I thought were bad and the no-weapon view. Now I like just having a reticle and the graphics are actually at times more detailed than modern games.

I forgot to add ...i mean for the single player, don't get me wrong Ghost Recon sp was awesome in its day, i can't really give an opinion on Ghost Recon mp because i never got into it

Last month I too was becoming tired of Ghost Recon 1. The AI are just so stupid. Ruins everything. You cannot leave them anywhere near the action or they will run into a grenade, step into enemy fire, announce their position by shooting walls, or just stare at the enemy until they get slaughtered. I actually wanted to give up modding and move on to something else. But then when Apex started his co-op server......

It doesn't get any better than GR1 co-op for me. I love coordinating the operations with teammates who use their brains -- beating M02 Farm with SD weapons and without being seen -- Taking down the M12 Docks mission like some kind of SWAT team, no casualties -- Wiping out the M01 Caves mission with brute skill and awesome tactics and coordination: that's what Ghost Recon 1 means for me. The SP experience could be just as epic with some decent AI. That's what I hate about GR1, the only thing I hate: why would they make the enemy so smart yet leave your guys like that? Would it have been that hard to make them smart too? But with co-op, I love the game even more and it makes me realize that it is the best out there.

just updated with NEW maps, plus the old ones

That doesn't really make sense. We could just download a mod with new maps and it would be the same. What we need is a new engine, better graphics, more scripting capabilities and it would be perfect. Don't need any moddable stuff because the community could do that. Those three things is it.

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Riley makes some good points, and Ghost Recon (original) does some important things right with respect to essential tactical realism design no game has done since, like the 'Ghost Perspective' that some dislike for its lack of FPWV, actually solves a critical issue in terms of tactical realism i.e. 'ranged combat'...

In games even with new newest and highest 4k resolution displays; you still can not see and identify a man target at realistic distances due to pixelation; i.e. at a fraction of the distance in the real world you could not only see someone, but clearly identify them as friendly, hostile or civilian -- in a game they'll be an 8 pixel blob.

Ghost Recon solved this problem to a greater extent with the 'Ghost Perspective' by giving all players a lot of zoom; and while it doesn't work quite to realistic distances even at a mean resolution of 1080p, it goes a lot further then games that are limited in this regard due to the limitations of having to draw a weapon, and can't zoom as much without distorting the weapon, or iron sights sight picture.

Ghost Recon's 'dated' engine also takes advantage of the powerful and expensive hardware based anti-aliasing optimization that we all pay a premium for in our GPU of choice that allows for razor sharp edge definition and crisp detail -- another feature that lends not only to an aesthetically more pleasing image to most than what can be had with deferred render engines, but to more realism in terms of game-play by allowing Players again to discern man targets from surrounding static map architecture at more realistic ranges.

Ghost Recon also does one of the best jobs of scaling all of this in a realistic context of 'tactical' realism, where the emphasis of realism is not just superficial aesthetics (though it lead there in its day), but the realism of how the game is played. Of course the game has had it's every limitation explored and exploited, so it's often not played as realistically as it once was when new -- but Ghost Recon's mod support and some really brilliant Mod Talent have more then made up for that...

:)

Edited by 101459

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The best thing about OGR was the ability for great people to make great mods. Those mods kept the game going well past its peak. No matter if you fancy was the HX4 or Frostbite mod or anything else, there was something out there for everyone. Today's games are now selling you DLC that might (or might not) come out over the next year (BF3 premium) and will not release mod tools. I only hope GRFS allows the great modders on this site the tools they need so the game can be something more than just eye candy.

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holy **** apex is still around playing GR?

Sure thing, what else would I be playing?!? :)

to bad this game and its original style wouldnt come back, best there ever was.

Hear, hear! :thumbsup:

Nice to hear from you again, CBA_Bludawg! Still enjoy your GR maps to this day! BTW, how about sharing your work? :yes:

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