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Hold on guys, Rabbi, I hardly think kleaneasy is at fault for the ubisoft communications for the last 3 years. I DO NOT envy his job. I'll assume your male kleaneasy.

She :D

ok, quickly noted :huh: whoops! anyhow the song remains the same. I don't envy your job. <_<

But hopefully soon, in the near future you can divulge and quiet even my speculation as to who is developing GR and how it is progressing. now that "Advanced Warfighter" is out of the picture as discussed, I can rest alot easier.

If you can go back to your bosses or whoever you report to and let them know perhaps if they want to fix the relationship with this community, I'd be very willing to bury my hatchet and get with anyone here who's with me, to help in the development...I'm open for talks and reconciliation....:hmm:

LORD knows things between Ubisoft and the gaming community have been really strained the last 4 or more years.

what'ya think kleaneasy? see what you can do girl. :thumbsup:

@ Rocky; sorry mate trying my best at being a gracious ambassador. :blush:

Edited by Papa6

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I appreciate the UBI mods giving it a shot, but UBI will never get another dime of my money. They've had since they canceled GR2 to make things right. They've proven that they could care less about PC gamers so they can kick rocks AFAIC.

I'm adopting the try before you buy program from here on out if UBI is involved.

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I agree with you Rugg. nothing unsportsmanlike about "test driving" a product before you buy. most software makers do offer Demos

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I'm adopting the try before you buy program from here on out if UBI is involved.

You'd think UBI would understand that, they're French and test their women out before they marry them.......

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I want to clear things up. Ms-Kleaneasy has been a member of the forums here for quite some time. She was just hired by Ubi this past November. Her duties as a Ubi Forum Manager is to do what the Ubi Community Managers did (or rather didn't do) before that. Still, with the revelation from a game designer that hardcore games have a narrow market (funny that a former RSE/Ubi dev started his own studio due to the demand) that Ubi doesn't want to fill even though they do just that with two other smaller niche markets. It's a case of not knowing what your company actually does do. :blink:

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There is alot of negative feelings towards the future of the Ghost Recon future. I have great faith that any future Ghost Recon game will be a massive step in the right direction. But I have to say that there is ample reason for GR vets to believe that Ghost Recon has been throw to the mainstream dogs. ButI believe that those same vets will be very very pleasantly surprised.

Edited by BS PALADIN

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I agree Rabbi but better late than never :thumbsup:

True. And I'll give you that at least you ARE trying, even if it's far too late for some of us.

We will still try to give you information that we have even if it's too late for you. Maybe one day we can bring you back if you've given up. I hope it's possible but it's gonna take a lot of work. I think we're up for it. :huh::lol:

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I agree Rabbi but better late than never :thumbsup:

True. And I'll give you that at least you ARE trying, even if it's far too late for some of us.

We will still try to give you information that we have even if it's too late for you. Maybe one day we can bring you back if you've given up. I hope it's possible but it's gonna take a lot of work. I think we're up for it. :huh::lol:

After the offical revelation by a Ubi game developer that "hardcore" games are to narrow of an area to concentrate on (funny that he knows nothing about the Silent Hunter, which Ubi develops, or the iL2 franchises Ubi publishes which fall into even smaller niches). Ubi needs to completely rethink their modus operendi in order to regain the fans they are losing and have lost.

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After the offical revelation by a Ubi game developer that "hardcore" games are to narrow of an area to concentrate on (funny that he knows nothing about the Silent Hunter, which Ubi develops, or the iL2 franchises Ubi publishes which fall into even smaller niches). Ubi needs to completely rethink their modus operendi in order to regain the fans they are losing and have lost.

Whats really (funny) Ironic is that because they did such a poor job on designing the maps and missions (maps too closed off and missions too linear) a lot of people I know would not buy GR:AW 1 and 2. Had they made the maps and missions in the style of the original they would have sold more games.

ie. Same maps/missions BUT if they had allowed the player to attack objectives in what ever order they wanted and be able to roam freely on the map, it would have been a huge improvement.

Edited by Fletch

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I agree Rabbi but better late than never :thumbsup:

True. And I'll give you that at least you ARE trying, even if it's far too late for some of us.

We will still try to give you information that we have even if it's too late for you. Maybe one day we can bring you back if you've given up. I hope it's possible but it's gonna take a lot of work. I think we're up for it. :huh::lol:

After the offical revelation by a Ubi game developer that "hardcore" games are to narrow of an area to concentrate on (funny that he knows nothing about the Silent Hunter, which Ubi develops, or the iL2 franchises Ubi publishes which fall into even smaller niches). Ubi needs to completely rethink their modus operendi in order to regain the fans they are losing and have lost.

they don't give a s--t about us gamers. they know new kiddies will spend mommy and daddy's $$$$ on a new console/PC and ubisoft games. the replacement baby sitter these days.

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Someone has their head in the sand.

You're aware the man you're criticizing has nothing to do with Ubisoft's Production staff, right?

He's a creative, a game developer. He makes videogames that are fun and fans enjoy -- money isn't his business, design is.

Just because he isn't making a game for under a thousandpeople on the internet doesn't mean his millions of buyers are all unhappy. 'hardcore' Tactical Shooter fans are an acceptable loss to please hundreds of thousands more.

Papa6: I don't understand the 'this gamers' thing you said. The majority of 'hardcore' gamers -- the sort who post on boards like this and follow developers by name -- play almost all kinds of games. They'll have a genre or two they don't like, but for the most part Racing, Sports, RPG, Adventure, Action, Shooter, Tactical shooter, Simulation -- all are enjoyed by the average videogamer. You -- and a lot of this forum, are the odd man out. It's not that ubisoft isn't appealing to gamers, it's that they aren't appealing to 'Realistic Squad Based Tactical Shooter with avatar switching and a modern setting' fans. A very narrow group, dwarfed by the millions and millions of 'gamers' out there and the hundreds of thousands of 'kiddies' who happen to like to play their older brother's games, or whatever.

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That man is part of the production staff. He is charged with producing a product (this based on him being the one in the chat and answering questions and apparently speaking for the company).

Also, one man's fun is not neccessarily another man's fun. It just happens that many of us here happen to share that same definition of fun. If you find games like Halo and CoD fun, that is your perogative, but there are those of us who don't. As you keep forgetting and I keep reminding you, Ubi does and has developed and published games that appeal to an even smaller groups of gamers, successfully. As I said, someone has their head in the sand. That could mean anyone, not just one person.

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That man is part of the production staff. He is charged with producing a product (this based on him being the one in the chat and answering questions and apparently speaking for the company).

In games:

Producers -- money, management, advertising, marketing.

Development -- Art, code, game design.

It's important to keep the names separate, since obviously Ubi didn't develop Ghost Recon 1, but they did publish it.

You keep forgetting that i'm not attacking your definition of fun -- i'm saying that the games aren't bad, or made for 'kiddies'. I know you like a very specific type of game, that's why we both post on this forum. But you're talking as if ubi is making bad products because they aren't making products for this niche -- that isn't true at all.

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But you're talking as if ubi is making bad products because they aren't making products for this niche -- that isn't true at all.

This niche is all we care about, you may love the other platforms and games but we want what we want and your coming in to a PC Game forum and extolling the virtues of the XBox or other types of games they make is amusing.

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Someone has their head in the sand.

You're aware the man you're criticizing has nothing to do with Ubisoft's Production staff, right?

He's a creative, a game developer. He makes videogames that are fun and fans enjoy -- money isn't his business, design is.

Just because he isn't making a game for under a thousandpeople on the internet doesn't mean his millions of buyers are all unhappy. 'hardcore' Tactical Shooter fans are an acceptable loss to please hundreds of thousands more.

Papa6: I don't understand the 'this gamers' thing you said. The majority of 'hardcore' gamers -- the sort who post on boards like this and follow developers by name -- play almost all kinds of games. They'll have a genre or two they don't like, but for the most part Racing, Sports, RPG, Adventure, Action, Shooter, Tactical shooter, Simulation -- all are enjoyed by the average videogamer. You -- and a lot of this forum, are the odd man out. It's not that ubisoft isn't appealing to gamers, it's that they aren't appealing to 'Realistic Squad Based Tactical Shooter with avatar switching and a modern setting' fans. A very narrow group, dwarfed by the millions and millions of 'gamers' out there and the hundreds of thousands of 'kiddies' who happen to like to play their older brother's games, or whatever.

try about 1 million +

(isn't that how many the original GR1 sold?)

I know someone here must have the stats (I used to but can't find them). Please post them.

We aren't just a niche...

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try about 1 million +

(isn't that how many the original GR1 sold?)

I know someone here must have the stats (I used to but can't find them). Please post them.

We aren't just a niche...

Do you think all of those buyers hate GRAW? I'd love to see the number that likes the new action GRAW more than GR1. i've spoken to so many people in other communities to do, it'd be interesting to see how many there actually are.

Most of that 1mil is probably like me, enjoys both varying levels, and bought both. Can't say for sure, but the gaming market isn't that big, and the numbers for GRAW's 'kiddy' makeover don't really lie -- there has to be a huge crossover.

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Do you think all of those buyers hate GRAW? I'd love to see the number that likes the new action GRAW more than GR1. i've spoken to so many people in other communities to do, it'd be interesting to see how many there actually are.
The group I belong to has 72 Private members of which only 45 have played GR1, When GR:AW came out only 5 of us decided to buy the game and we were to report back to the majority if we liked the game enough to consider it a successor to GR1. Two of those five returned the game for something else within a week and the rest of us sadly reported that while the game was fun to play it was not GR, it was a SpecOp shooter that was too linear and scripted. The majority of the team decided to skip on the purchase. When GR:AW2 came out the same 3 people who kept GR:AW1 bought it. We reported to our teammates that it was in some areas an improvement over GR:AW but that it still lacked what we needed for the GR aspect of it. I had loads of fun playing the SP missions but unlike GR the repeatability of said mission was not as fun because as again everything was too linear and scripted. So in the case of our ONE team they lost 40 players who have never come back, and gained several who ###### and moan about their stupidity in handling the GR franchise.

The biggest complaints were the maps and missions were linear and scripted, and the weapons kits and the server controls. The reason for this is because with GR a whole culture of team play and tournaments were setup and played. The server controls allowed the Admins of these games to setup the tourneys to exact standards giving no one any advantage or to block weapons not considered proper for the tourney.

Players were free to roam the maps and attack the objectives from multiple directions without invisible fences keeping you in the magic playground.

If they had just even made their maps open and the missions open there would have been more to like about this game.

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try about 1 million +

(isn't that how many the original GR1 sold?)

I know someone here must have the stats (I used to but can't find them). Please post them.

We aren't just a niche...

Do you think all of those buyers hate GRAW? I'd love to see the number that likes the new action GRAW more than GR1. i've spoken to so many people in other communities to do, it'd be interesting to see how many there actually are.

Most of that 1mil is probably like me, enjoys both varying levels, and bought both. Can't say for sure, but the gaming market isn't that big, and the numbers for GRAW's 'kiddy' makeover don't really lie -- there has to be a huge crossover.

I liked Graw2. GRAW 1 at 1st i didn't. I Liked GR1. I matched in all 3 (the last 2 while it lasted were even fun)

I didn't say they all hate Graw. i'm just stating what proves that we aren't alone as a niche liking slower paced games you can play tactically or fast that aren't one big linear or excuse my language cluster F&*K (aka 32 peeps, cod 4, any map)

Most of my type have left GRAW1 and 2. When GRAW1 came out there were many clans from GR1 trying it. After about 6 to 8 months, soon there were maybe 4 or 5. With GRAW2 only 4 or 5 started servers to test it. And now i think there is only 1 that i know of that played GR1.

For my Game type, MP adversial team vs team, there is very little players from GR1 playing it, and only occasioanlly. Those same Peeps in GR1 which sold so many copies and other clans played it EVERY night for at least 4 to 5 hours. heck i still have 790 hours on my xfire and i only started using xfire after Island thunder.

This tells you 2 things. For one... GR1 was very enjoyable and more then a niche. #2 for MP players GRAW and GRAW2 althuogh having some of what was in GR1, did not meet the 1 million GR1 players mark for more then 1/3 of the players.

In GR1, you started a server, you were lucky if you could get in. it will fill up with 20+ players before you could load your game. And it did this with direct ip only and all seeing eye... later xfire... which is even more amazing.

The Niche is still there. There are still MANY players like us that could definately enjoy the game. We just need a game to make it there. And don't anyone chime in with ground branch. it's not out yet. We don't know yet. It could flop like anything else or be the greatest. I hope it does, but i hate when people chime in with games that aren't released. I've been down that road. hence our server database for our website is called ravenshield ... which didn't take off for our clan lol.

Basically i would say it's just not our 1000 voicing out opinions, but about 500,000 + that don't post in forums or that have moved on currently until something with our style comes back into play. That my friend = not a niche.

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I know some of you find him somewhat abrasive, but SUP actually makes some good points. I actually like that SUP doesn't hold back, but anyways.

Yes we all like ghost recon and "understand" it's gameplay and we have a vision for it's gameplay, but like SUP is saying, do the majority of the "gamers" feel like games should take the same direction. If we look at sales figures they don't feel the same.

If we take the estimate of 1 million + GR copies sold and look at some other sales estimates of top selling 360 titles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games), you have to put yourself in the shoes of these producers/developers. Do I want to pay my mortgage with a game that will sell me 1 million copies over a seven year span, or do I want focus on developing something that will get me 3, 4, 8 million copies in about a year or less. We play the games for fun and entertainment, these people have to feed their kids and pay for their gas with their product.

I love what BFS is doing, and I admire their dedication to this group of gamers, but look at how difficult it has been for them to get us a game that caters to our tastes.

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If we take the estimate of 1 million + GR copies sold.

#58 /Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon /November 13, 2001 /15 million[38]

Ghost Recon is a series of military tactical shooter video games created by Red Storm Entertainment, the game development studio founded by American author Tom Clancy.

http://www.ubisoftgroup.com/index.php?p=65&art_id=

Edited by Fletch

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If we take the estimate of 1 million + GR copies sold.

#58 /Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon /November 13, 2001 /15 million[38]

Ghost Recon is a series of military tactical shooter video games created by Red Storm Entertainment, the game development studio founded by American author Tom Clancy.

http://www.ubisoftgroup.com/index.php?p=65&art_id=

Isn't that the total of all Ghost Recon games? It doesn't specify between GR or GRAW or consoles to PC from what I see.

Edited by blk_widow9

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I do think Ms-Kleaneasy and Blk_Widow should drop by the Tactical FPS market "too narrow" ! by an Ubi Dev thread and respond to a Ubi game developer as it was Blk_Widow states she hopes that Ubi can win us back. Someone has their head in the sand.

I've actually read that already but thanks for the heads up. I'm not really sure what you would like me to say because I'm not going to peanut butter an answer for you. I was responding to us giving you information as far as the game and sending your feedback to those who matter not Ubi winning you back but your trust in me and MsK winning you back on the forums. Sorry if you got the wrong impression but I am paying attention. :huh:

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If we take the estimate of 1 million + GR copies sold.

#58 /Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon /November 13, 2001 /15 million[38]

Ghost Recon is a series of military tactical shooter video games created by Red Storm Entertainment, the game development studio founded by American author Tom Clancy.

http://www.ubisoftgroup.com/index.php?p=65&art_id=

Isn't that the total of all Ghost Recon games? It doesn't specify between GR or GRAW or consoles to PC from what I see.

Also, i normally defend UBI, but those are unlikely the real numbers of sales. That would be the number ubi has shipped out -- including everything sitting on store shelves that hasn't and potentially won't sell. Publishers tend to use those numbers, instead of the retail sales.

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