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krise madsen

Ubi forums takes a turn for the worse

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Krise I don’t think anyone would argue the gap was huge lol, its getting much smaller though and will continue to do so. The problem as I’ve said before is you can’t fix that kind of problem overnight, I know the A Team always managed to create a armoured tank from a few pieces of straw but I’m not BA Baracus ;)

A lot of the questions raised here I can’t answer (including why GRIN developed PC GRAW and not RSE) because they again reflect issues long past that I have no experience or knowledge of. But that is where the problem lays; many for fair reasons have strong feelings and opinions that run very deep and an improvement over at Ubisoft forums won’t change those feelings for those people, in fact it’s likely the only thing that would is actually having a game in your hand that has been developed with what you want in mind and until that actually materialises I don’t imagine those who feel as they do will change their opinion.

Now don’t get me wrong I am not saying they should, what I am saying is I do understand how far that feeling runs. I can only address issues which take place here and now, and continue to feedback the opinions expressed.

What I'm trying to say is, the problem doesn't lie with you or your forum colleagues, but with the Ubi decision makers. And with all due respect I don't believe you're the one calling the shots. Obviously, you can't be held responsible for what has happened on the forum in the past, and blaming the forum staff for anything that has to do with the game itself is like shooting the messenger. And the communications gap is not between forum staff and the rest of Ubi, it's elsewhere in the organisation (as per info I obtained from elsewhere).

Since it doesn't really pertain to me any more, this is just a friendly advice: If Ubi want to do anything with their forum other than random, pointless posting, they need to start entirely from scratch. Someone from Ubi need to beg Rocky to copy the GR.net setup, and provide the resources to maintain it, or create something equally effective. It's hardly a coincidence that the main communication platform between GRIN and the community was GR.net and not Ubi.com. A minor forum cleanup won't change that. A complete overhaul is required.

As for news and information from Ubi, you only need to look at the BlackFoot Studios forum to see how well developer-community interaction can be done. What is needed is not so much Ubi telling everything as Ubi telling something. More specifically, telling something other than the usual bland press releases (they tend to be quite useless). They need to be blunt and frank, even if that means being a bit abrasive at times. Just tell it like it is: "We're going to keep that a secret until the game is released so nobody steal the idea". "We could tell you, but we have only so much we can tell before the game is released so we're going to ration it and release it a little bit at a time". "We're keeping this info a secret for promotion purposes: We'll let games magazines see it first". "We made a mistake on that one, it happens". It's not what we want, but at least it's frank and honest. Undoubtedly, some forum members will scream bloody murder. Ban them. Forums aren't made for someone to vent their anger, but for constructive communication and interaction, and if some people can't live by those rules then sod them. It's tough love, but it's still love.

A lot of the questions raised here I can’t answer (including why GRIN developed PC GRAW and not RSE) because they again reflect issues long past that I have no experience or knowledge of.

I know this has nothing to do with you or the forum staff. And it's now so far in the past it's only of historical value. But it is still an intriguing enigma. And it would make an excellent litmus test for Ubi's commitment to community interaction. It isn't a question of who developed PC GRAW. It's a question of why PC GRAW was developed separately at all (regarless of who made it). Assuming this was more expensive and complex than simply porting the 360 version, the question remain why Ubi made this decision: What was the motivation and the reasoning behind developing a separate PC version? What was Ubi trying to achieve with the game that warranted a seaparate version? Try asking the Ubi brass and see if they'll answer it in public. It might show the community that they're really trying to communicate with the community.

But again, it doesn't really pertain to me any more so it's just a bit of friendly advice. :)

EDIT: Just to clarify my position: The hard work of the forum staff cannot achieve much if Ubi isn't willing to play ball.

Respectfully

krise madsen

Edited by krise madsen

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And the communications gap is not between forum staff and the rest of Ubi, it's elsewhere in the organisation (as per info I obtained from elsewhere).

The changes i refered to are not limited to new forum managers ;)

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And the communications gap is not between forum staff and the rest of Ubi, it's elsewhere in the organisation (as per info I obtained from elsewhere).

The changes i refered to are not limited to new forum managers ;)

Good. It was needed. I'm being very blunt, I know, but at least I'm being honest. Try asking the newbies the question I mentioned above and see if they're willing to answer in public. That should give the community an indication of whether they have something to offer besides a new name on the door :)

Respectfully

krise madsen

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To be clear... We want what the consoles get. Ahead of time they get screenshots of up and coming games... ON THERE PLATFORM. half the screenshots for GRAW 2 were of xbox screens. We want some hype... some anticipation, which will intern lead to more sales / MORE PLAYERS. Something to lookforward to that WILL be delivered on our platform. You want peeps to come back... tell them there is a patch in the works. This will sell YOU more games. This will SATISFY us. Then deliver it. Create a tournament, promote some prizes to ladders, even if there small like hats or posters. Also, give the dev a chance to complete the game. I don't care if it takes over a year. I would like it complete.

I myself enjoyed Graw 1 and 2 but i am not a co-oper. On the UBI forum also... Colin was the only reason i would visit UBI. he would post info here that was important and link it, so i would go post at UBI, look over a few spams and come back here.

Oh and one more thing. Get the freaken US site to actually update when there is some info. I get sick of checking the UK and France.

I do appreciate though kleaneasy actually coming over here to talk to us and try to understand our point. I think he is the 1st UBI'er i have seen in over a year post any info.

To clarify my statement above. It wasn't ment as an attack but more as informational of what needs to change to appease the PC crowd. i said it a little harsher then i normally would word it, but it was late and it's been bugging me for a long time.

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Roco I didnt for one minute think it was an attack, its a highly emotive subject and one which sees emotional and strong responses, besides... if i thought it were personal i would say so :)

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Roco I didnt for one minute think it was an attack, its a highly emotive subject and one which sees emotional and strong responses, besides... if i thought it were personal i would say so :)

Just was making sure it wasn't taken the wrong way. :D

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I notice that my thread was removed at Ubi. A bit close to the bone maybe? It is something that should be discussed there as it is a Ubi problem and not a GR.net problem, but due to the fact fans come to both places, it does spill over to here.

Removing that thread is an example of Ubi hiding their head in the sand and is what fans see and detest more than getting shorted on game information. This has been a long term problem and will not be fixed by a few personel changes. It has to be fixed farther up the chain.

As you know (or should have as it appears that you read said thread), those requests across numerous threads for information have been happening for years and many of us nowadays pretty much do not expect to have said requests filled. This is how ingrained the institutional memory is. Fans nowadays do not expect the developers to build the games fans want. Klean, I know you have said time and again, that you would like to see a game that requires some thought and if I remember right, a removal of the 3rd person view. Still, I see post after post of people saying that they love the game due to the very things that have been asked to be removed, time and again. As been said already, Ubi doesn't listen and those that are in charge, well above your position are the ones who disregard what is being asked and said and it is ingrained in said company that it is now doubtful that it can change.

Would fans welcome a change back to the premise of the original games? Maybe at this point, but Ubi has a lot of work to do. As Krise said, interactivity is much do be desired from a developer/publisher as I hinted at in said thread and again this morning in a PM to you and Blk_Widow.

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Not only that, but we have console people moderating PC forums over there. No offense to Ms. Klean, but there's a huge difference between the two. Number one being consoles are for chicks, fags and lamers. ;) JK. There are differences though and it tells me that once again UBI doesn't care enuf about PC gamers to pick from the PC crowd and make them mods, as they did in the past.

I miss the days of UBI's forums when Witness was a GR mod and UBI's FPS' actually had substance.

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I do appreciate though kleaneasy actually coming over here to talk to us and try to understand our point. I think he is the 1st UBI'er i have seen in over a year post any info.

SHE :whistle:

blk_widow9 is the Forum/Community Manager for the GRAW forums and she just started the job recently.

I knew about blk_widow's position right about the time she started. I was asked to create her an account her and send her the log in information, which I did. Since she posted here today for the first time, I guess she got it. However, I was told that she would be a regular presence here and at Ubi forums and would be very interactive with the members. I don't see what I was told happening here.

I am glad klean is here and interacting with us regularly. Klean and I go way back, so I know what all she has taken on her shoulders over the years and how she commits 110% to doing a good job.

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Klean has been here a long time as a gamer. She recently started as a forum manager at Ubi too (past several months at least).

Blk_Widow and Klean have a long way to go to get the gamers point across to those higher up at Ubi and I feel it is an uphill battle due to past preformance from Ubi.

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WK that thread was moved out of sight by me for very good reasons and ones I will gladly discuss with you in pt at Ubi but I can assure you it was nothing to do with being too ‘close to the bone’ as you put it.

In case of any future confusion….I am a GR fan you know that, and yes I like a tactical game you are also right you have seen me discus that as my preference but I have not said the game should lose 3rd person, I play in 1st and that won’t change, I did actually try it once after everyone insisted I didn’t know what I was missing so thought hell why not I’ll try it… I lasted about 5 minutes before changing it back lol BUT I’ve not said 3rd person should be removed, there is a huge portion of the community who love it, even people who used to swear they were die hard 1st person players in fact some of the people who post on Ubi begging for its removal play in 3rd person online… bet you didn’t know that ;)

It’s not my place to say they shouldn’t have that option so I see no reason why it should be removed, and that’s an opinion I’ve held so long as my choice to play in 1st remains so should their choice to play in 3rd

The unfortunate truth is that some are annoyed to a point that nothing will be the right thing and whilst I understand how you got there that doesn’t change the fact that if that’s where you are its impossible to actually do the right thing. Earlier on Ubi is a classic example. The issue has been raised why the pc forum doesn’t have an ‘ideas for the next GR’ thread, the 360 community has one but this is only because a community member created it earlier last year and as a moderator I stickied it (it’s since been placed under the useful links thread so it isn’t actually a sticky as such anymore) But the issue was raised and so I created a thread, the first and only response so far was to say…….

Ppl have stated over and over again on these forums (and GR.net) what they want for the next GR.

After all these years ,you still don't know .Thats just THE proof that UBI dont read / dont care whats going on here.

You really think that we are all idiots don't you...

Sit down , go to GR.net ,read all the posts regarding what PLAYERS really want ...and weap.

As I have said before… I do understand how you got to where you all are, but when not having the thread is seen as evidence the PC community is uncared for, and having the thread evidence we haven’t been listening maybe it’s time you ask yourselves what it is you really want?

As said many times before the changes are coming, it will be slow to see the final impact off those because the process of game design is such a long one (you lot don’t need me to tell you that) but maybe as Ubisoft is re-evaluating its communication systems it’s a good time to re-evaluate what you all want as well. After all you don’t want to wake up one morning and realise you got what you asked for but what you asked for wasn’t actually what you really wanted ;)

Not only that, but we have console people moderating PC forums over there. No offense to Ms. Klean, but there's a huge difference between the two. Number one being consoles are for chicks, fags and lamers. ;) JK. There are differences though and it tells me that once again UBI doesn't care enuf about PC gamers to pick from the PC crowd and make them mods, as they did in the past.

I miss the days of UBI's forums when Witness was a GR mod and UBI's FPS' actually had substance.

Damn... someone give me a frag??? :P

You were being modded by a console gamer aka me way back... I got Colin for you all didnt I 0:)

Obviously in light of recent events that needs sorting but I wasnt expecting Colin to leave when he did so havnt had chance to sort it yet but I will dont worry ;)

@ zjj thanks :)

@ WK - Started November :thumbsup:

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I will make it as simple as possible for Ubi to understand. GR fans want the next Ghost Recon game to fall back on what has made a game playable for 6 years. They need to sit down and play GR that RSE originally built and won awards with. They need to throw out the advanced warfighter garbage and the need for high end graphics cards and create a game that has great gameplay and a great story. Return the teams to 6 mans without the hero character and return Coop to the 9 man teams that were available originally.

We want to be able to connect via Direct IP connection or other 3rd party software (not GameSpy or Ubi Gaming Service though those options should be included too). We want to be able to use mods and have modding tools released. Most of all we want a game that is ready for retail without the need for patches on the day of release and most of all, we want a game that is supported more than 2 months or 2 patches.

It wasn't the fact that there is no "What Do You Want in the Next GR" thread in the PC forum like there is one in the console forum, but more of when will Ubi actually listen to the gamers posting in those 27 (or more) page threads? Many good ideas come about from the gamers yet Ubi does their own thing when it comes to the games and it shows with unhappy fans and as you have said, why were are here debating this very thing now.

What we gamers want is for Ubi to build us the game(s) we Tac-Simmers want and build a seperate game for the mainstream gamer. Ubi can and does do it already in different genres and we ask that we are given that consideration too.

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WK I get all that..... now how’s about you all make my job easier and actually post that without trying to second guess what you think may or may not be happening at Ubi so I don’t have to sift through tons of threads arguing things for which I cannot put your mind at rest and let me concentrate time on feeding back those opinions so the important information is going back :thumbsup:

I can hope for such cant I?? lol

Edited by kleaneasy

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Thanks :)

Kleaneasy, I have a couple questions. You mentioned that the dissemination of information at ubisoft is changing. in what way?

can you or will you ever be able to tell us WHY in the world has ubisoft been/are keeping information away from consumers who would otherwise buy your games?

I guess about 2 or 3 years ago, Ubisoft put a faucet tap on all info and we get very vague if any info about games.

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SHE :whistle:

Whoops! a misstype lol. I knew she was a she.

I will make it as simple as possible for Ubi to understand. GR fans want the next Ghost Recon game to fall back on what has made a game playable for 6 years. They need to sit down and play GR that RSE originally built and won awards with. They need to throw out the advanced warfighter garbage and the need for high end graphics cards and create a game that has great gameplay and a great story. Return the teams to 6 mans without the hero character and return Coop to the 9 man teams that were available originally.

Truthfully making it highend is good. Just needs room for the mid range without advantages. I remember when i got my TI4600 and could turn everything high and my audigy. Those were VERY high end, and GR1 had some things new for me to see that i could not without the highend, but yet in game the mid and lowend still could own me (mainly cuz for the 1st 2 weeks i was admiring the scenery ;) )

I like some gadgets... well not exactly but to play with guns that are in beta versions in real life and based upon how they handle in real life. What i really miss though is an INJURY MODEL. Looking at your screen and seeing the shots you just took messed up your walking aim and breathing rocked. It made you feel you were part of the character as if you took the injury. I tell this story all the time. One time on a pub server i was on ghosttown hiding behind a rock. A nade come over. It injured every body part but one arm. I was so messed up, i crawled out into the battlefield (limped actually) praying someone would shoot me lol. My injuries were 1 arm, head, both legs and chest. Basically i could hardly move, my ret was out so far i couldn't shoot and i was panting like a dog in heat. Another thing i stress is... EXPANSIONS. We will pay for add-ons. It's cheaper then a new game, increases the player amount and brings new life to a game + enhancements.

As for UBI deleting posts ...

Removal is ok or good if for cleaning up, but the member should get a notification of why it was removed, if not just a link to the forum rule that was broken.

What we gamers want is for Ubi to build us the game(s) we Tac-Simmers want and build a seperate game for the mainstream gamer. Ubi can and does do it already in different genres and we ask that we are given that consideration too.

Not actually the game. We want the framework with a good foundation. Good maps stock with lots of scenarios. Mod tools with download mod on the fly options so we can develop our own scenarios. A server browser installed but with direct ip as a backup in case it's down. Old gametypes (TDM, Deathmatch, CFT, Defend, campaign Co-op style) with maybe a new 1 or 2. Physics were cool but if they add to the overhead or bandwith the point where 9 guys can't duke it out on a home connection, then let us turn them off, or client side them. And no all of this necessarly doesn't have to come at release, but some and stable with the promise of adding the rest later in steps that are explained to the end user.

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I had the OICW. The punk that messed me up lobbed a nade just far enough that i was at the end of the blast radius lol

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I had the OICW. The punk that messed me up lobbed a nade just far enough that i was at the end of the blast radius lol

I recall very few people crying about rifle nades back in the day, especially when the squads that were good with it would fire 6 from each player as soon as the map dropped. Nowadays you blow up one guy and people complain like you just knifed their sister..........:D

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I had the OICW. The punk that messed me up lobbed a nade just far enough that i was at the end of the blast radius lol

I recall very few people crying about rifle nades back in the day, especially when the squads that were good with it would fire 6 from each player as soon as the map dropped. Nowadays you blow up one guy and people complain like you just knifed their sister..........:D

Agreed with the shout of noob tube... and the oicw was a semi auto grenade... let me think... 6 per clip x 2 times the amount of peeps using it...

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The unfortunate truth is that some are annoyed to a point that nothing will be the right thing and whilst I understand how you got there that doesn’t change the fact that if that’s where you are its impossible to actually do the right thing. Earlier on Ubi is a classic example. The issue has been raised why the pc forum doesn’t have an ‘ideas for the next GR’ thread, the 360 community has one but this is only because a community member created it earlier last year and as a moderator I stickied it (it’s since been placed under the useful links thread so it isn’t actually a sticky as such anymore) But the issue was raised and so I created a thread, the first and only response so far was to say…….

Ppl have stated over and over again on these forums (and GR.net) what they want for the next GR.

After all these years ,you still don't know .Thats just THE proof that UBI dont read / dont care whats going on here.

You really think that we are all idiots don't you...

Sit down , go to GR.net ,read all the posts regarding what PLAYERS really want ...and weap.

As I have said before… I do understand how you got to where you all are, but when not having the thread is seen as evidence the PC community is uncared for, and having the thread evidence we haven’t been listening maybe it’s time you ask yourselves what it is you really want?

As said many times before the changes are coming, it will be slow to see the final impact off those because the process of game design is such a long one (you lot don’t need me to tell you that) but maybe as Ubisoft is re-evaluating its communication systems it’s a good time to re-evaluate what you all want as well. After all you don’t want to wake up one morning and realise you got what you asked for but what you asked for wasn’t actually what you really wanted ;)

Just to avoid any confusion: If someone at Ubi need information on what we want for the "Next GR" (PC) they only have to read Colin's theads. The foundation for a GR PC game is really quite simple: Copy as much as possible from GR1 and take it from there. And make sure the people in charge really understand GR1 and what made it great. :)

TBH, I think it's a no-win situation for Ubi. Considering how much Ubi has made a mess of the GR PC concept since the relase of Island Thunder, being asked now "what do you want from a GR PC game?" is just adding insult to injury, no matter how noble the intentions. I think this is a battle that has already been lost.

In the end, it's really about the game. Creating a GRAW3 PC along the lines of GRAW1&2 PC is a recipe for disaster and a waste of money IMHO. The way I see it, there are two options: The most obvious (and IMO most likely) is to burn the last bridge to GR1 and simply port the next GR game from console to PC (if it's released on the PC platform at all, that is). There will be some unhappy PC gamers for sure, but they're not likely to be happy with a GRAW3 PC anyway.

The other option is to do what Colin did in one of his threads: Wipe the slate clean and pretend that it's 2004 and GRAW was never made. Then begin to create a true sequel to GR1, faithful to the original concept. Just have the game designers play an awful lot of GR1. Anyone of them who doesn't think GR1 is way better are off the project. I'd even go as far as to create an entirely separate forum for it (again, GR.net is the best template for a game forum you'll ever find).

Respectfully

krise madsen

Edited by krise madsen

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I have my bets on Blackfoot at the moment, but if they don't make it I won't be surprised, its hard to make good computer games, especially if you start as a small company without the big funds.

I can only hope UBI will see there's a PC market and a score spot were once a great game used to be.....

I have seen ingame footage.

Not only will BFS "make it"; but Sonedecker will bring to this community exactly what it's been looking for since 2000.

The spot where a great game used to be, is about to be filled by an even greater game of the same caliber.

BFS is the company that still sees the community for what it really wants; sees the potential left in the PC market, and is going to do something about it.

Who do want to bring you the next great GR Style game?

Sonedecker, Harntrox, and the rest of the amazingly talented BFS dev team, who cut their teeth on [GR] with you, ........... or Ubisoft?

Keep the faith, and spread the word.

Ground Branch is coming.

Just have the game designers play an awful lot of GR1.

And make sure the people in charge really understand GR1 and what made it great.

See above.

Sonedecker? Harntrox?

You guys are asking for something that's already here.

.

Edited by MONOLITH

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