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Help Ruin Build a New PC

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I know we don't work for Microsoft but I think you can see as well as I, that a big company like MS wants to protect it's reputation and Product, they are mad as hell that the Digital certification can be circumvented. It will not be too long till MS puts a big boot into companies that allow things to happen to the premium baby (Vista 64bit).

All I'm saying is 64bit is there security flagship and they will go to any lengths to stop none certified DLL's or Drivers running through the kernel and that means Beta's Pirate hacks & the likes. I don't disagee that 64bit OS like Vista is not a joy but it will be with Ms permissions that their kernel (under a licence to the end user) gets to be able to run anything but what they consider valid.

For now I am staying away from OS 64bit and the joy of Vista & XP Pro on the 32bit OS is all I need to work (and Linux too). What I'm saying is placing 64bit OS Vista on your drive will be a means to an end, The end MS wants. ;)

There are 2 sides to this though. Vista drivers if stable have to go through certification, which means they get tested and not just plopped out there. That should solve all those stupid hp printer driver odd installs and wacked out configs. Granted it makes beta harder... but it also means if they go whql... they end up in the windows update, which i have seen some newer 32bit nvidia's come in if selected.

As for DRM. Blame the record industry and don't forget intel and amd both have it built into there boards. ;)

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Wait... Quantum is now (or at least owned by) WD? How did I miss that... wow. I had a couple Quantum drives many moons ago... I actually just five minutes ago pulled them out of the closet and tossed them. Old, fried, and junk. Hmmn.

For final clarification, I do need a 64bit OS for DX10 right?

Oh... can I run Max OS X along-side Windows? This is more a curiosity question. :hehe:

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For final clarification, I do need a 64bit OS for DX10 right?

NO you do not, I have full DX10 on Vista 32bit OS right next to me on 2 machines.

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So... then I just need Vista? And when I have Vista ultimate, could I install both the 32bit and 64bit versions?

:hehe:

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Actually Maxtor bought Quantum then Seagate bought maxtor... but still left it run it's companies under Maxtor name.'

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10558135/

WD bought no one.

Oh and Quantum bought Seagates tape drive division.

Holy confusion.

For mac, i haven't seen an emulator... but if you have a mac you can load XP using boot camp (I bet vista also) since the components are intel based now.

32bit or 64 of vista will work but they are a seperate purchase. You buy it as 1 or the other but vista 32 cannot do above 4gb of ram

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Windows-Vis...RAM-44487.shtml

Although my setup has no issues with Vista, i don't know about abit and your changes. I would then recommend for you xp 32bit on 1 drive (if you already have a copy) and Vista 64bit on another. That way if you have any issues in vista, until an update comes out, you can play it on xp.

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Wait... Quantum is now (or at least owned by) WD? How did I miss that... wow. I had a couple Quantum drives many moons ago... I actually just five minutes ago pulled them out of the closet and tossed them. Old, fried, and junk. Hmmn.

I used Quantum too in the old days. Quantum was bought by Maxtor years ago, and Maxtor was just bought by Seagate. Right now, the big HD makers (that I can think of) left are WD, Seagate (who will still use the Maxtor brand for retail HD's I believe) and Samsung, Hitashi (who bought IBM).

For final clarification, I do need a 64bit OS for DX10 right?

Oh... can I run Max OS X along-side Windows? This is more a curiosity question. :hehe:

You do NOT need a 64-bit OS for DX10. You only need Vista 32 or 64-bit for DX10. Note that I am betting DX10 will come to XP in the future ... MS is just using DX10 as a carrot on a stick for gamers to migrate to Vista for now :shifty:

You can only run legit Mac OS with Windows on Apple hardware, but I'm sure the hacker community has found ways to run Apple OS virtualized on a PC somehow.

So... then I just need Vista? And when I have Vista ultimate, could I install both the 32bit and 64bit versions?

:hehe:

Yes you could, but you would have to pay for both keys.

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Just to throw in my two cents, when I build a new PC next month it'll be Win XP Pro that goes on it, for two reasons. Vista still has driver issues I keep hearing about, I don't need that hastle on a new rig, but the main reason is I am just not buying the DX10 carrot. My personal opinion is that Dx10 games that are really the "next level" are another generation of PC away. The reason I get that impression is that I've seen comparison screenshots for games that have DX10 now and it's a blinking joke. There is NO WAY you can tell the difference in the screenshots is anything meaningful, now play the game at 30FPS, do you really think you'll notice the DX10 effects? I don't think so. The final nail in the coffin though is that by all accounts the DX10 games bring PC's to their knees, for very very little eye candy gain.

Sorry, that's a bit of a rant, but personally, I'm fed up hearing about DX10, the benfits are a long ways off IMHO.

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Just to throw in my two cents, when I build a new PC next month it'll be Win XP Pro that goes on it, for two reasons. Vista still has driver issues I keep hearing about, I don't need that hastle on a new rig, but the main reason is I am just not buying the DX10 carrot. My personal opinion is that Dx10 games that are really the "next level" are another generation of PC away. The reason I get that impression is that I've seen comparison screenshots for games that have DX10 now and it's a blinking joke. There is NO WAY you can tell the difference in the screenshots is anything meaningful, now play the game at 30FPS, do you really think you'll notice the DX10 effects? I don't think so. The final nail in the coffin though is that by all accounts the DX10 games bring PC's to their knees, for very very little eye candy gain.

Sorry, that's a bit of a rant, but personally, I'm fed up hearing about DX10, the benfits are a long ways off IMHO.

qft, and for those of you who don't know what that means it means our esteemed forum god is right, so obscenely right that I can't describe it.

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Interesting past few posts. Rocky, I definitely see what you mean. For me, when it comes to OSs, I prefer to do them right at the start, and never again until I add a new drive or rebuild the whole PC. I'm looking at XP Home and Vista Ultimate 64 as a dual boot to allow me use of both, and transitioning over the coming year(s).

I'm having a hard time justifying this kind of (expensive) rig... but I'm certain that dropping this money initially will save me pain, heartache, and more $$$ in the future.

Okay... I'm about there.

Can I buy, and use the "builder's" version of an OS? They're cheaper... can I reap the benefits?

Made some more changes. Once I make sure I can hook everything up to my currently selected PSU, I'll post a more detailed packing list. Upgraded to the BenQ 24" monitor, pricey, but that will last 7 years.

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Can I buy, and use the "builder's" version of an OS? They're cheaper... can I reap the benefits?

It's called OEM, for Original End Manufacturer. You can buy OEM copies of Windows from pretty much any computer parts seller, as long as you buy it along with some other components. Basically, the stores aren't supposed to sell OEM copies to someone unless they have a reasonable expectation that the person they are selling to is actually building a new computer, not just updating an existing one.

Otherwise, there's no real difference between a regular retail and OEM copy, other than the packaging and price.

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Thanks Dannik. :) I'm trying to keep my illegal activity to a minimum, haha. Didn't want to violate any laws/rules/codes/whatever - more importantly I didn't want to buy a product that required a "builder's" code, haha.

Okay, I'm closing in on a rough-draft packing list and, eeek, price.

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Can I buy, and use the "builder's" version of an OS? They're cheaper... can I reap the benefits?

It's called OEM, for Original End Manufacturer. You can buy OEM copies of Windows from pretty much any computer parts seller, as long as you buy it along with some other components. Basically, the stores aren't supposed to sell OEM copies to someone unless they have a reasonable expectation that the person they are selling to is actually building a new computer, not just updating an existing one.

Otherwise, there's no real difference between a regular retail and OEM copy, other than the packaging and price.

Dannik... XP and Vista licensing has changed. No hardware needed. (changed i think last year if i remember correcly)... actually it was 2005 read here... (https://partner.microsoft.com/India/40038750) Office 2007 however... you only get a slip of paper with your product key and [Thing that should not be spoken of here IAW Forum Rule 3.7]... GRRR have to order the cd from MS (they call it a backup cd) . We can't even include them on new pc's but we can pre-install it and sell you a license. (We have numerous complaints to MS about this as customers needing office reloaded have to be charged and it has to be done at our building with the OPK kit) Some distributions were sending the OPK kit with it, and payed a hefty fine by ms for doing so.

With OEM you must talk to where you got it for suppot or if you call MS they will charge you. You get a discount but can't call MS for free support. Also there are no upgrade versions that are OEM. (who calls ms anyway lol)

OEM #'s will not work on retail cds. However they are not locked to the system like Gateway used to do with there Office copys. They do though need activation and if installed to another pc will need to reactivate, usually by a phone call to ms.

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With OEM you must talk to where you got it for suppot or if you call MS they will charge you. You get a discount but can't call MS for free support. Also there are no upgrade versions that are OEM. (who calls ms anyway lol)

....need to reactivate, usually by a phone call to ms.

Interesting. I never call MS Support though, so might as well save the buck. I get faster results and better satisfaction out of figuring out and solving the problem myself.

Odd that you have to call... you would think that it would work via internet like OSes. Hmmn

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I'm looking at XP Home and Vista Ultimate 64 as a dual boot to allow me use of both, and transitioning over the coming year(s).

Note if you want to dual boot, you must install XP before Vista, and not vice versa. Also, if you get Vista Ultimate 64, you cannot use the upgrade version as XP Home only upgrades to Home Premium. So you will have to get a full version or OEM version of Vista 64 (I never like upgrade versions anyway)

Hey Rocky, well said on the DX10 thing. Also, congrats on your new build!!! :thumbsup:

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Thanks CR6. I'll install XP first, and both versions are OEM so I can have two full separately partitioned OSes. Each one will be on a different drive.

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I can't make any serious arguments against that list. What did you decide for the CPU?

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That is a considerable amount of stuff there Ruin, I'm not sure I even know how to reply to that.

I would suggest getting a Q6600, if you get one of the new G0 steppings they overclock like crazy, and I am not sure if they are available for the Q6700.

As for speakers, I would go with the Creative Z5500, pretty much some of the best speakers out there, and price doesn't seem to be much of an object for you.

On a slightly more philosophical note, I am personally a bigger fan of 2500$ builds every few years than $5000 builds that last 5 years, but that is just me. To each his own.

Not that it matters too much, but I would go with a Dell monitor over the BenQ (Even though I own a BenQ 20"er) here

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/product...mp;sku=320-5647

Granted it is the same a a 24" Samsung.

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Parts/Packing/Price List (Rough Draft)

Apevia X-Pleasure Case

Abit IP35 Pro Motherboard

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6700 Kentsfield 2.66GHz

EVGA GeForce 8800Ultra KO 76MB Video Card

Corsair XMS2 4GB Kit DDR2 00 @ PC2 6400

2x Seagate Barracuda ES 750GB SATA Hard Drive

2x Seagate Barracuda 250GB SATA Hard Drive

Thermaltake 750W PSU

Scythe Ninja HS

LITE-ON Litescribe 20x DVD+RW Burner

LITE-ON Combo CD-RW/DVD-ROM

Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Pro Series

Windows XP Home SP2B - OEM

Windows Vista 64bit Ultimate - OEM

Altec Lansing 5.1 89W Music/Gaming Speakers*

24" BenQ FP241W WS LCD Monitor

LINKSKEY 19-in-1 USB Card Reader/Writer

Sony 1.44MB Internal FDD

Logitech G15 Gaming Keyboard

IDEAZON FANG Gamepad

Saitek X52 Flight Control Joystick

Razer Copperhead Blue Gaming Mouse

APC 1300VA 780W UPS

2x Logisys 4" UV Cold Cathode Kit

Logisys 12" Blue Cold Cathode Kit

Apevia 120mm Blue LED Case Fan *For HS

4x OKGEAR 18" SATAII UV Blue Cable

OKGEAR 24" Round IDE UV Blue Cable

Arctic Silver 5 CPU Thermal Compound

+ Assorted Games and Software

Currently, a Grand Total of:

$5,127.46

+S/H

Looks like I have some shaving down to do on price. Otherwise...

Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions? Criticisms?

*Speaker Suggestions Welcome. :)

Holy crap that got expensive.

The best price shaving you could do it change the ultra to a GTX and go with the Q6600

Do you really need speakers? i never use mine lol always a headset.

The LCD is expensive... not much to cut there though unless you downsized.

Ultimate vista ... over vista home premium. You only gain ability to connect to domain... new deskspace video background (still in beta) and some new games, + encryption. Home Premium has the media center stuff. Can save a little there.

For xp though Pro is faster then home. In vista seems about the same.

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Can I buy, and use the "builder's" version of an OS? They're cheaper... can I reap the benefits?

It's called OEM, for Original End Manufacturer. You can buy OEM copies of Windows from pretty much any computer parts seller, as long as you buy it along with some other components. Basically, the stores aren't supposed to sell OEM copies to someone unless they have a reasonable expectation that the person they are selling to is actually building a new computer, not just updating an existing one.

Otherwise, there's no real difference between a regular retail and OEM copy, other than the packaging and price.

Ruin, you still in school? Got a student ID? You should ask your bookstore/ academic computer dept for Student discount or Academic Version of OS....it works same as standard OS.

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Or if you are doing anything involved with computers in any way you could probably get it free, I did.

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Or if you are doing anything involved with computers in any way you could probably get it free, I did.

...at work, we received new Dells and tech left a WinXPPRO SP2 disc in the box that was about to be thrown away...always wondered if I could have used that disc <_<

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Or if you are doing anything involved with computers in any way you could probably get it free, I did.

...at work, we received new Dells and tech left a WinXPPRO SP2 disc in the box that was about to be thrown away...always wondered if I could have used that disc <_<

Legally no... OEM disks are not transferrable. They are susposed to die with the pc it was installed on. That i why OEM's have to put the sticker on.

Not legally... well if you had a valid product id...

Anyway.

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I would suggest getting a Q6600, if you get one of the new G0 steppings they overclock like crazy, and I am not sure if they are available for the Q6700.

Regardless of steppings, I decided to save to $286 seeing as I'm going to OC anyway. :) So, I'm switching to the Q6600

As for speakers, I would go with the Creative Z5500, pretty much some of the best speakers out there, and price doesn't seem to be much of an object for you.

While I do have a ridiculously large list, and it is pricey. Money is of object, and important to save where I can. I'm trying to find a good balance between a high-end PC, getting all the goodies I want, have something that will last a while, and keep from blowing all $10K I'm giving myself. :D Keep in mind, this first list is a rough draft, up for revision to try and get me back down to $4500 all told (realize this includes OSes, Game Controllers, and about a dozen games).

On a slightly more philosophical note, I am personally a bigger fan of 2500$ builds every few years than $5000 builds that last 5 years, but that is just me. To each his own.

I see your point, but realize that, if I weren't buying: software, all new keyboard and mouse, just one OS, no monitor, no speakers, and no UPS I'd really be looking at a $2900 build. So, over my original budget, but when I factor it into my grander plans, no too bad. :hehe:

Not that it matters too much, but I would go with a Dell monitor over the BenQ (Even though I own a BenQ 20"er) here

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/product...mp;sku=320-5647

Granted it is the same a a 24" Samsung.

I've tossed the idea of a cheaper monitor a lot, I mean A LOT, and I realized: I used the same $150 CRT monitor for 6 years before I finally tossed it - because of age, not because of flaws. I might as well get a nice LCD monitor now, and keep it for many many years. Especially a larger WS format one. I'm still on the fence with this, as $750 is a LOT for a monitor, but I believe it's worth the extra $300 for one that is top-end and will last longer. Also is rated as the best for gaming and other multimedia.

Holy crap that got expensive.

Yes it did... :wacko:

The best price shaving you could do it change the ultra to a GTX and go with the Q6600

Do you really need speakers? i never use mine lol always a headset.

The LCD is expensive... not much to cut there though unless you downsized.

Ultimate vista ... over vista home premium. You only gain ability to connect to domain... new deskspace video background (still in beta) and some new games, + encryption. Home Premium has the media center stuff. Can save a little there.

For xp though Pro is faster then home. In vista seems about the same.

I'm going to keep the Ultra... to be completely honest, this is the only part of my PCs I like to brag about. And the part I care the most about. Having the Ultra will give me a sweet rig, bragging rights, and make me feel better. :hehe:

As far as the speakers, I don't use anything other than. I listen to a lot of music, watch a lot of DVDs and don't know where my headset went. I plan on watching movies more often on this rig that I do my laptop, so it will be nice to have a good set of speakers for the girlie and I to catch a movie in the comfort of our home. :)

I went with XP home because I don't plan on using it frequently and it's only $90 OEM.

Ruin, you still in school? Got a student ID? You should ask your bookstore/ academic computer dept for Student discount or Academic Version of OS....it works same as standard OS.

I've got Ultimate 64 for $199 OEM and XP Home for $89 OEM. I'm not sure academic versions can beat that, but I'll give them a look. :) Thanks!

Thanks all for the great replies and info over this whole thread. I'll keep working on this list. One change so far as a result of Kamikaze bringing me back to reality. :D

Looking at a possible monitor change, maybe ditching some gaming stuff/games, and lessening HD space (2TB, really?)

I'll keep you all posted.

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