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Meggy

GRIN! What have you done to my game?

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There was a grat game named GRAW. I wrote there was since it is going to remain my fav one so far.

I installed GRAW 2 48 hours ago and I really don't know ... Where are the huge urban levels? Where is that wonderful blinding effect, that used to show up and tint everything with a warm light when you stared at the sun? Where are the promised improvements to IA? Where the heck have physics gone???? Everything looks more static now, just some cars and tyres to destroy, that's it.

Launching a grenade in GRAW1 was pure estatic destructive pleasure: burning cars, crashing traffic lights, flying garbage..

I miss al that and more. Multiplayer is sad.... sad!!! A few maps, all similar, kingdom of snipers and campers. Seriously, you should give us a maps pack soon, I don't mean a metropolis-urban pack, ( I know the action moved from Mexico City ) but at least small towns, vehicles, structures...

After a 12 months wait, all I get is 50 euros of disappointments. I could cry.

Sincerely

Maria Elena. Italy.

Edited by Meggy

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Don't worry, there is a little army of good mappers & modders waiting patiently in the wings for the promised tools (Editor being one of them). Once the tools arrives and any Manuals & tutorials (I wish) then the maps will start. There is a problem with GRAW2, as it is not based on a tile type structure so alot of amateur mappers are not going to be able to use the more advance system.

Some of the ideas & urban elements can be seen in the campaign mission maps, these will be the first to be pulled out but they will never be a true community made map as they are GRINS, (thats not saying GRIN are not part of the community) but I refer to the mappers.

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Don't worry, there is a little army of good mappers & modders waiting patiently in the wings for the promised tools (Editor being one of them). Once the tools arrives and any Manuals & tutorials (I wish) then the maps will start. There is a problem with GRAW2, as it is not based on a tile type structure so alot of amateur mappers are not going to be able to use the more advance system.

Some of the ideas & urban elements can be seen in the campaign mission maps, these will be the first to be pulled out but they will never be a true community made map as they are GRINS, (thats not saying GRIN are not part of the community) but I refer to the mappers.

I see, anyway I expected much more after one whole year... I just started the campaign, still frustrated, maybe the single experience will be a little better. Multi maps are pathetic Imho.

And... I dont know, there is still something different from GRAW1, I can't define it, but it's a mix of feeling, graphics and physics, a slight difference that makes me prefer chapter one.

Thumbs up about the new weapons, various and well built.

This is ther perfect game to me, the one I always dreamt about, and I want the best for it.

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There was a grat game named GRAW. I wrote there was since it is going to remain my fav one so far.

I installed GRAW 2 48 hours ago and I really don't know ... Where are the huge urban levels? Where is that wonderful blinding effect, that used to show up and tint everything with a warm light when you stared at the sun? Where are the promised improvements to IA? Where the heck have physics gone???? Everything looks more static now, just some cars and tyres to destroy, that's it.

Launching a grenade in GRAW1 was pure estatic destructive pleasure: burning cars, crashing traffic lights, flying garbage..

I miss al that and more. Multiplayer is sad.... sad!!! A few maps, all similar, kingdom of snipers and campers. Seriously, you should give us a maps pack soon, I don't mean a metropolis-urban pack, ( I know the action moved from Mexico City ) but at least small towns, vehicles, structures...

After a 12 months wait, all I get is 50 euros of disappointments. I could cry.

Sincerely

Maria Elena. Italy.

We all have our own opinions. I don`t think i will play GRAW1 ever again now, TBH. :hehe:

As Viiiper said, there will be modders who can bring back some GRAW1 memories for you hopefully. New mouse here, also wanting to learn the ropes! All depends on the tools and help that have yet to come.

Tinker

:D

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My only complain is about the physics. I remember that GRAW1 had way better physics. Damn you could even shoot the leaves of a tree which was pretty neat. In GRAW2 the physics are downgraded. I don'tknow if you can interact with the leaves and with everything else with an AGEIA card,but the interaction and the physics of the in the normal settings are downgraded from GRAW1,which is really sad IMO

Edited by john2gr

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My only complain is about the physics. I remember that GRAW1 had way better physics. Damn you could even shoot the leaves of a tree which was pretty neat. In GRAW2 the physics are downgraded. I don'tknow if you can interact with the leaves and with everything else with an AGEIA card,but the interaction and the physics of the in the normal settings are downgraded from GRAW1,which is really sad IMO

Definately!!!!

The feeling is like a sad downgrade, the game has lost much!

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I guess people have different tastes - this is a vast improvement over GRAW 1 for me. Yes, there are some issues... but I'm very pleased with my purchase and am looking forward to endless hours of decent MP.

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I see, anyway I expected much more after one whole year...

Imagine how we [GR] fans felt when we had to wait about 5 years, and all we got was GRAW. Seriously, I think I read somewhere that it contributed to 3 suicides and about $14 billion US in damaged computers and computer parts. Wasn't pretty.

And... I dont know, there is still something different from GRAW1...

This is what we like to call a 'BENEFIT.' While GRAW had its strong points, PC users weren't generally allowed to know what those were. Call it 'getting Ubi-shafted.' XboX sales reportedly quadrupled shortly after GRAW's release, for sake of gamers wanting the GOOD version of it. So if being different means it'll be worth playing, then I'm all for it.

And if GRAW is what you enjoy, ma'am, then you may have it. I'll even send you my copy so you've got a spare...

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I guess people have different tastes - this is a vast improvement over GRAW 1 for me. Yes, there are some issues... but I'm very pleased with my purchase and am looking forward to endless hours of decent MP.

I agree, but the urban maps in Mexico city had an unrivaled charisma. And, to repeat my words, the multiplayer maps are so... poor. All the same stuff, some trees, few details and object, all very similar... that's the worst part of the matter in my opinion.

About the physics, I have the feeling GRIN may have intentionally downgraded them in standard version, and maybe upgraded them in the Ageia version, but only GRIN themselves can answer to this question I guess.

Sob.

Edited by Meggy

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My own personal opinion, is once'Meggy' plays the Campaign mode, preferably with friends (3 of) and not the AI then she will see the Urban dream she longs for, there are a couple of levels in a built up town/ city like downtown but better and a few in unique locations like in 'Dam' and in the Boarder crossing where you need your buddies and AI will be a last resort.

The PhysiX I can not comment on as I have an Ageia card and there are loads of floating leaves and dust in the night vision maps, in fact it feels a lot better than GRAW1, but that's my opinion. The sun still shines bright but not yellow all day and the distance fog/ haze is a real treat. The sound is on 'cue' as usual and the overall colour pallet has done nothing but enhanced the whole environment to the level of GR1 & Recon playability.

Once we get tools & tutorials this game comes close to 5/5 :grin2::grin2::grin2::grin2::grin2:

for the future it would be nice to see GRIN make Ubi an expansion map pack. I for one would buy it faster than 'island thunder'

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My own personal opinion, is once'Meggy' plays the Campaign mode, preferably with friends (3 of) and not the AI then she will see the Urban dream she longs for, there are a couple of levels in a built up town/ city like downtown but better

That makes me partially happy, thank ou.

The PhysiX I can not comment on as I have an Ageia card

This confirms my doubts, on Ageia you say it is great, on a standard PC it is sadly downgraded. I wonder if there is a commercial agree between the Publisher and Ageia to boost the cards sells. I will never buy one anyway.

The sun still shines bright but not yellow all day

Yes, it shines, but in chapter one it was wonderful, realy blinding, warm, very "mexican" (remember the movie "Traffic"?), in a word: realistic, loved it.

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Wow.. are we playing the same game in MP...?

guess everyone is entitled to their opinion, but this game is GREAT

Edited by =KI=Maximus

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Wow.. are we playing the same game in MP...?

guess everyone is entitled to their opinion, but this game is GREAT

yes... the same game :D

During the weekend I will play alot the single missions campaign, hopefully I will find some nice fun.

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I would rather attention be spent on the "gameplay" and tactics in the next one rather than cpu using physics candy. I remember allot complaining about pointless cans placed around so they moved etc.

If its a case of wow them on the first with extra physics, then shift to getting a physics card on the next one (maybe a ploy? hmmmm) and then they focus on gameplay, then cool.

I think its good (from what ive read) that people are talking in terms of [GR] gameplay similarities back.

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I would rather attention be spent on the "gameplay" and tactics in the next one rather than cpu using physics candy. I remember allot complaining about pointless cans placed around so they moved etc.

If its a case of wow them on the first with extra physics, then shift to getting a physics card on the next one (maybe a ploy? hmmmm) and then they focus on gameplay, then cool.

I think its good (from what ive read) that people are talking in terms of [GR] gameplay similarities back.

But when you blow stuff up, cans and trash and stuff all go flying, and it's COOL!

That, by Ubisoft's apparent logic, justified the sacrifice of most positive gameplay elements. We've FINALLY found a fan of it! I'm happy for Meggy...

:thumbsup:

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That, by Ubisoft's apparent logic, justified the sacrifice of most positive gameplay elements. We've FINALLY found a fan of it! I'm happy for Meggy...

:thumbsup:

Now, from my comments may look like I am bringing this game down. FALSE!

I still am a great fan of GRAW, I think its the best (we'll see COD4 though....), and I love GRIN's attitude, I mean being here on the forum to talk to the fans and give suggestions and stuff. Models (humans) are wonderful, weaponry is great and the sound is overwhelming.

That's it, when you are used to something that's almost perfect, you notice any little disappointing thing in a sequel.

By the way forgive my broken english, it is not my first languiage and Im doing my best.

EDIT - by the way, on my wishlist, a patch that blocks online players calling me bit*h when I kill them :D:angry: and I'd love to know if there are any other female Ghosts around.

Edited by Meggy

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But when you blow stuff up, cans and trash and stuff all go flying, and it's COOL!

I never saw you as a Trashy guy Rabbi :lol:

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I would rather attention be spent on the "gameplay" and tactics in the next one rather than cpu using physics candy. I remember allot complaining about pointless cans placed around so they moved etc.

If its a case of wow them on the first with extra physics, then shift to getting a physics card on the next one (maybe a ploy? hmmmm) and then they focus on gameplay, then cool.

I think its good (from what ive read) that people are talking in terms of [GR] gameplay similarities back.

I totally agree with you. Gameplay > Physics BUT the point is that GRAW1 had better physics/interaction so it's really disappointing to realize that the previous game had better physics AND interaction (keep in mind that a lot of gamers love the interaction. Hence look at Crysis,a lot of us will be just playing with the interaction and the physics :D). And both of them can Co-Exist in order to satisfy all the gamers ;)

PS: This is regarding the non-AGEIA version of the game

Edited by john2gr

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I totally agree with you. Gameplay > Physics BUT the point is that GRAW1 had better physics/interaction so it's really disappointing to realize that the previous game had better physics AND interaction (keep in mind that a lot of gamers love the interaction. Hence look at Crysis,a lot of us will be just playing with the interaction and the physics :D). And both of them can Co-Exist in order to satisfy all the gamers ;)

PS: This is regarding the non-AGEIA version of the game

Problem will be, if/ will Crytek get the recon element into the game or as some preview clips have shown it's a muscle bound frag fest set in the best ever environment made. It's ok to have great physics but physicX without great game play is just ? GRAW1. I can say the physiX with a Ageia is spot on) I get some really great screens and the burning buildings etc can be seen in the campaign.

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Now, from my comments may look like I am bringing this game down. FALSE!

I still am a great fan of GRAW, I think its the best (we'll see COD4 though....), and I love GRIN's attitude, I mean being here on the forum to talk to the fans and give suggestions and stuff. Models (humans) are wonderful, weaponry is great and the sound is overwhelming.

That's it, when you are used to something that's almost perfect, you notice any little disappointing thing in a sequel.

By the way forgive my broken english, it is not my first languiage and Im doing my best.

First, don't sweat the English. There are a LOT of folks on this forum who speak English second, third, even fifth. It's cool. :rocky:

Problem is, a lot of us bought GRAW expecting it to be what GR2 was SUPPOSED to be before it was aborted- a fitting successor to GR. It wasn't. It was this entirely different game, and to be fair to GRIN (and yes, even Ubishaft) I judged it too much against GR and not enough on its own merits.

SOUND was AWESOME in GRAW, and I don't think we've yet done enough to sing the praises of a certain development team member for that. (Yeah you, Des) The character models were good- not GREAT, but good. The weapons were cool, though the selection was kinda weak. Like giving only one sniper rifle choice, and one THAT heavy for that matter, for an urban environment in which there is a ~147 meter sight distance. It was like putting a Lamborghini engine in a Fiat Panda- what's the point, other than proving it can be done?

And for an engine that was supposed to be so physics-intense, Diesel seemed to me to have some serious problems comprehending some of the basic concepts of physics. Stock maps were full of glitches and missing textures (retail 1.35 contains a noticeable missing texture that we identified in 1.35 beta testing).

GRIN is a good development studio, I'm convinced. And they seem to thrive on interaction with US. AWESOME. Most of us think that if Ubisoft wasn't calling the shots, you'd see an AWESOME game from GRIN.

But GRAW wasn't that awesome game until you came along. And for the rest of us, it's still little more than a BETA for GRAW2...

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I see, anyway I expected much more after one whole year...

Imagine how we [GR] fans felt when we had to wait about 5 years, and all we got was GRAW. Seriously, I think I read somewhere that it contributed to 3 suicides and about $14 billion US in damaged computers and computer parts. Wasn't pretty.

Man, isn't that the truth. :D

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while both sides of the opinions have valid points, i do think this is an improvement.

having said that, i was pretty harsh on GRAW b4, considering it was a new game.

while there may not be as much in the way of physics in game, i think the more varied terrain and beautiful landscapes and maps more then make up for it.

now if i can just get my hands on that mission editor, i will try to put together a GRAW COOP Tournament.

and if I can just work out whats wrong with my mutha######en stupid ###### ass ######face connection I'd be in heaven. :wall:

again GRIN - great work.

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GRAW1 used Havok(normal) and Ageia physics seeing as it was a new technology

Graw2 uses only Ageia physics

that is why the "physics" seem downgraded to you. Havok is a costly physics software while Ageia is free software, the only cost associated is the PPU card which is a one time cost for US while they may make multiple games and have to keep relicensing the Havok engine.

Just look on the back of your GRAW1 case and near the bottom it has the ATI, Agiea, Hovok, blink video, etc icons..

and then GRAW2 BLink, gamespy, agiea, etc... icons

so no GRIN didn't go out of their way to make your game look any less spectacular then Ageia users, they just didn't buy two Physics engines where Ageia can with little hardware upgrades (read : PPU card) can handle tons of physics calculations where Havok relies HEAVILY on you CPU and GPU

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I think they may have reduced physics to increase overall game performance. In order to house a physics system as extreme as the one we saw in GRAW1, you have a lot of CPU overhead. Even when you are not actually seeing the physics. It has to stand at the ready, avaialble to see any interaction and respond with the physics when required.

Don't you guys recall all the "this asks too much of my machine" complaints in GRAW1?

I couldn't help but notice that GRAW2 is far prettier (IMHO) and yet runs better on the same hardware...

In part, this may be becuase of the reduction in physics overhead...... a concious design decision.

Based on the number of posts complaining about the reduction in physics (far less than the number of complaints originally about GRAW1 being a resource hog), it seems their strategic choice may have made sense over all....

Edited by Sleepdoc

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Glad you edited that Sleepdoc, was struggling to read it for a minute! :P

I couldn't help but notice that GRAW2 is far prettier (IMHO) and yet runs better on the same hardware...

Couldn`t agree more. For me, it is a massive improvement all round. I have a good PC, but not nearly anything like some have. However, game runs really smooth, loads in no time, looks fantastic, uses less resources, and my FPS has gone up from around only 25 for GRAW1 to an average of 40.

Happy Days!

Tinker

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