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firefly2442

Building New System

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So I think I need to bite the bullet here and build a new system. The 5 year old Alienware that has had various upgrades over time just isn't cutting it anymore. I have a couple questions though:

1) If I build a new system with Intel's latest Dual Core CPU or Quad Core, will the old Windows XP CD that I have work? This CD is really old and doesn't even have SP1 on it. It should work right? It's the Windows XP CD that I got with my Alienware? I'll be removing XP on my old Alienware and purely running Linux.

2) I don't want to get Windows Vista yet. I want to wait for as long as possible, maybe even never. Based on compatibility issues, DRM, component upgrades forcing you to re-activate, and numerous other issues... Is this a good idea?

3) I want to do a custom build. The entire system will be from scratch, I don't have any decent parts sitting around that I could use in the build. What CPU should I get?

4) If I get an Nvidia 8800 series DirectX 10 card, does this still support DirectX 9 games? Like in Windows XP? Are there drivers for it? I've noticed Nvidia hasn't updated their XP drivers in a long time.

Edited by firefly2442

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Well, I priced out a system:

MidTower Case: $100 (regularly $140)

(SLI compatible) PSU: $95 (regularly $130)

(SLI supported) Video Card: $540

(SATA) DVD Burner: $40

(SATA) Hard Drive: $100

(SLI supported) Motherboard: $145

CPU: $317 Core 2 Duo or $480 Core 2 Quad

RAM: $130

Total: $1,467 (Core 2 Duo) or $1,630 (Core 2 Quad)

I think I might get the case now. That Antec looks fantastic and the rebate is only for this weekend.

Here are some of the parts:

Thoughts? Thanks. :)

Antec True Power Trio TP3-650 ATX12V 650W Power Supply with Three 12V Rails

EVGA 768-P2-N831-AR GeForce 8800GTX 768MB 384-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Video Card

MSI P6N SLI Platinum LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 650i SLI ATX Intel Motherboard

Intel Core 2 Duo E6700 Conroe 2.66GHz 4M shared L2 Cache LGA 775 Processor

Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

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I would recommend looking at the 680I chipset instead of the older 650 for performance. I'm running a P5N32-E SLI and it rocks... plus has 3 pci express slots (2 video and one for physics via video card) although i only have one GTX. Do not however get the striker as i have seen peeps with bad problems...

Btw i have the same EVGA GTX... your gonna like it :D

Wait till end of July. Rumor has it the quad might hit 266.00 US

Oh and as for vista. After driver upgrades... NO Problems with GRAW1 or 2... and FPS in GRAW2 is near 100fps at 1280x1024.

I have an X-FI and vista drivers work great with openAL in GRAW.

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If I build a new system with Intel's latest Dual Core CPU or Quad Core, will the old Windows XP CD that I have work? This CD is really old and doesn't even have SP1 on it. It should work right?

Yes, as long as you have a product key. You can install SP2 over it

I don't want to get Windows Vista yet. Is this a good idea?

Yes. Don't waste your money on Vista for at least the next 2 years.

What CPU should I get?

If you want a gaming rig with legs for a few years, get a Core 2 Quad. Lookit ... GRAW 2 supports quad, next-gen Unreal supports quad etc

If I get an Nvidia 8800 series DirectX 10 card, does this still support DirectX 9 games?

Yes, DX10 cards can run DX9. The 8800 is the best high-end card for your buck right now. ATI isn't in the game at the high-end (likely until their next die-shrink) but have good mid and low range offerings with their 2xxx HD series.

To add on to what Roco said: Yes, there will be a price drop in quad CPU's later this month. If you want to get the dual core, wait til the E6650 that has larger L2 cache and supports dual channel 667 memory

I am building a new system for my wife with a E6600/P965 chipset - just bought a Antec TruePower Trio 650W - it had great reviews. It will be enough for a single high-end card, but may not be enough for SLI

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Yeah, I can wait a little bit. Basically, I need to get this new system to play GRAW 2 at full settings and Supreme Commander which runs really slow on my machine. So it sounds like get Quad, as long as the price drops, and certainly get a better PSU for future potential SLI? I'm willing to spend a decent amount for a CPU as this is not a component that I would upgrade down the road.

Thanks for the help. :)

Also, with the power supply sitting on the bottom of the case, will that cause any problems? I assume since it's standard ATX case design, most power supplies will be OK?

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Also, with the power supply sitting on the bottom of the case, will that cause any problems? I assume since it's standard ATX case design, most power supplies will be OK?

PSU at the bottom means more heat inside the case. Make sure you spend the extra money, and get a very good PSU, for one, watch out for how it vents (as some PSU's vent out the top as well as the back), and use your case fans to your advantage. While flow is critical, negative pressure is the best way to achieve this. Slightly more output than input will lower the case pressure (if the case is well sealed), thus reducing latent heat.

If you have a quality case, throw in a quality PSU and decent fans. Not for the computer you build today, but for the upgrade you look to next year.

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As long as the CD of XP is from Microsoft and not an Alienware labeled OS reinstallation disk you should be OK.

I have the same GPU you've listed and have had no problems at all with GR, :AW, :AW2 demos, or ArmA so at least for these games there is backwards compatibility. Roughly the same FPS as Roco posted, but under XP. My card shipped with ForceWare 97.??, so you'll have to D/L 158.22...I'm still holding out for the WHQL update to this. Rumored to be out soon.

I also agree with Roco in regards to the ASUS MB, lots of slots, good tweaking options, and only $30-$40 more than the one you listed.

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I don't want to get Windows Vista yet. I want to wait for as long as possible, maybe even never. Based on compatibility issues, DRM, component upgrades forcing you to re-activate, and numerous other issues... Is this a good idea?

I agree with you about Windows Vista. I have heard there are too many bugs in the Windows Vista system since it is so new. That is the big problem I ran into when I was looking for a new computer to upgrade. Everybody already had Windows Vista loaded on the new system instead of Windows XP.

I don't care about Windows Vista since it seems Windows XP is good enough up until you need more than 3.2 gigabytes of random access memory. It will be probably be several more years before I need that much memory.

Edited by Militiaman

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Vista really isn't that bad, I play tons of games on it all the time with no problems as well as do all sorts of stuff.

Other than that, sounds like you are getting very good suggestions. happy shopping

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Vista really isn't that bad, I play tons of games on it all the time with no problems as well as do all sorts of stuff.

I think it makes a big diff using Vista on a Core 2 platform. It is clunky with all graphics options turned on for a P4.

Anyways, new Core 2's with 4MB cache and 1333FSB announced today:

http://www.dailytech.com/Intel+Introduces+...article8054.htm

Interesting review:

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel...i=3038&p=16

Final Words

Despite theoretical showings on paper, the 1333MHz FSB appears to do very little for performance even when feeding four of Intel's fastest cores. The Core 2 Extreme QX6850's performance is nothing to scoff at, but given its price tag we'd strongly recommend one of the cheaper quad-core offerings. With the Q6600 coming in at $266, it's tough to resist.

Look for the Quad Core price drop at the end of the month ...

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Vista really isn't that bad, I play tons of games on it all the time with no problems as well as do all sorts of stuff.

I think it makes a big diff using Vista on a Core 2 platform. It is clunky with all graphics options turned on for a P4.

Anyways, new Core 2's with 4MB cache and 1333FSB announced today:

http://www.dailytech.com/Intel+Introduces+...article8054.htm

Interesting review:

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel...i=3038&p=16

Final Words

Despite theoretical showings on paper, the 1333MHz FSB appears to do very little for performance even when feeding four of Intel's fastest cores. The Core 2 Extreme QX6850's performance is nothing to scoff at, but given its price tag we'd strongly recommend one of the cheaper quad-core offerings. With the Q6600 coming in at $266, it's tough to resist.

Look for the Quad Core price drop at the end of the month ...

Check post 3 :D

I got word of that through our distribution months ago (the price drop)

Vista ran fine on my P4 (outside of games) but my 6800 did not (skippy in GRAW1 until the drivers matured)

With my quad core it runs like butter.

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Vista ran fine on my P4 (outside of games) but my 6800 did not (skippy in GRAW1 until the drivers matured)

With my quad core it runs like butter.

One of the systems I am running Vista on a P4 3.4GHz/i875/2GB/X800XT PE.

Like you said, for desktop stuff it is fine. However, my wife got frustrated with all the pop-up warnings like she can't even add a new bookmark or edit an existing one on IE7 unless she opens the program up as an administrator

Also, if I let the Catalyst Control Centre turn on at startup, my desktop goes darker and the graphics card fan kicks up as if it's under load from a 3D game (it's OK if I disable the CCC). XP doesn't have this problem since it doesn't use a 3D desktop.

Another example of frustration last week: I just tried installing the GRAW 2 PC demo 3 times because I thought it hung, but in fact I guess I was too impatient ... Vista was taking a few minutes to run some processes in the background ... no probls like that in XP.

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Vista ran fine on my P4 (outside of games) but my 6800 did not (skippy in GRAW1 until the drivers matured)

With my quad core it runs like butter.

One of the systems I am running Vista on a P4 3.4GHz/i875/2GB/X800XT PE.

Like you said, for desktop stuff it is fine. However, my wife got frustrated with all the pop-up warnings like she can't even add a new bookmark or edit an existing one on IE7 unless she opens the program up as an administrator

Also, if I let the Catalyst Control Centre turn on at startup, my desktop goes darker and the graphics card fan kicks up as if it's under load from a 3D game (it's OK if I disable the CCC). XP doesn't have this problem since it doesn't use a 3D desktop.

Another example of frustration last week: I just tried installing the GRAW 2 PC demo 3 times because I thought it hung, but in fact I guess I was too impatient ... Vista was taking a few minutes to run some processes in the background ... no probls like that in XP.

If you don't like the warnings shut off user account control.

In classic view, Control panel, user accounts, shut off user account control ;)

I keep it on but you can shut it off there.

Mine was a 3.0 p4.

My IE doesn't however warn me with bookmarks. Different browser?

Anyway for new games on a new system vista seems stable... haven't had any issues.

But if you want XP...get it soon... only about 1 more month and it won't be available. Local retailers have already pulled it off the shelf and can get it only by online ordering. OEM's like the one i work for lose it in around 1 month.

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My IE doesn't however warn me with bookmarks. Different browser?

But if you want XP...get it soon... only about 1 more month and it won't be available. Local retailers have already pulled it off the shelf and can get it only by online ordering. OEM's like the one i work for lose it in around 1 month.

As mentioned above, I was using IE7, but I didn't mention it was Vista Home Premium. I got my wife to use FireFox and that's working OK now. Funny thing is my Windows Vista Ultimate version's IE7 doesn't have the bookmark problem ... wierd.

Just curious where have you heard they are removing XP in 1 month. My OEM source hasn't heard anything up here in Canada. I've read on the 'net they plan to stop selling it by the end of the year.

To add on to what Roco said: Yes, there will be a price drop in quad CPU's later this month. If you want to get the dual core, wait til the E6650 that has larger L2 cache and supports dual channel 667 memory

BTW, I did give you credit at the beginning of the thread for the price drop info :D Always happy to give credit where it is due! :thumbsup:

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My IE doesn't however warn me with bookmarks. Different browser?

But if you want XP...get it soon... only about 1 more month and it won't be available. Local retailers have already pulled it off the shelf and can get it only by online ordering. OEM's like the one i work for lose it in around 1 month.

As mentioned above, I was using IE7, but I didn't mention it was Vista Home Premium. I got my wife to use FireFox and that's working OK now. Funny thing is my Windows Vista Ultimate version's IE7 doesn't have the bookmark problem ... wierd.

Just curious where have you heard they are removing XP in 1 month. My OEM source hasn't heard anything up here in Canada. I've read on the 'net they plan to stop selling it by the end of the year.

To add on to what Roco said: Yes, there will be a price drop in quad CPU's later this month. If you want to get the dual core, wait til the E6650 that has larger L2 cache and supports dual channel 667 memory

BTW, I did give you credit at the beginning of the thread for the price drop info :D Always happy to give credit where it is due! :thumbsup:

The official date is January of 2008... but our distributions such as ingram and dandH are barely stocking it, and 30 packs are no longer available. There however is PLENTY of Vista flooding the channels in all flavors. It is rumored that at least one of our distributions will no longer have it after one month.

We are primarly business pc's so i don't see much of home but yesterday i did install a home premium and no bookmarks issues were found (we haven't done a pre-install build of home as most of our customers get vista business so i was adding them manually)

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the problem with using a windows xp cd without the service packs is that you cannot make a internet connection, and most drivers you like to install making internet possible need sp2...lol

I know, I'm experienced. I used some old magazine cd/dvd's to get the right stuff together to do the work,a nd after a while I thought wth just download the service pacs for system builders on another PC, burn em on cd and use it that way.....

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What are some of the things I need? .NET framework, SP2, anything else really big?

SP2 is the main thing if you don't have a firewall hardware router (probably do though)

If you don't expect instant infection. Everything else you can pull through the windows update after validation.

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Anyone hear anything new about the price drop on the quad-cores? I keep checking newegg but the prices seem about the same.

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Anyone hear anything new about the price drop on the quad-cores? I keep checking newegg but the prices seem about the same.

Yes! I'll link you. Zipzoom Fly has them at the new price

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetai...st=pricegrabber

285.00 + Free shipping

Quad core.

Also note there is susposed to be a lesser quad, a Q6400 as i see it in my Q at work through distribution... but no release date set.

New egg wants 294.

I paid 400 for mine about 4 or 5 months ago directly through IPD at a reduced cost so this is a steal

Here is who has it

http://computers.pricegrabber.com/processo...22/search=q6600

Pricegrabber.com is the best for finding parts online.

oh and just to note... our cost is 274. With profit and shipping it would be above these prices, hence i recommend zipzoomfly.

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Anyone hear anything new about the price drop on the quad-cores? I keep checking newegg but the prices seem about the same.

I've had 3 friends build Quad core rigs in the last 2 weeks since the price drop. Make sure you get the new stepping (may run cooler if you want to o/c) and don't get a cheap mobo either.

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hate being broke and having prices drop in front of you. :wall:

been itching to do a media center with old pc parts...287DVDs and counting...so much better if they are centralized in a single HD....maybe run it thru the house LAN connection to the TV.

don't have HDTV yet...but someday Pinky.

pinkyBrain.gif

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