Can we D/L Maps without rebooting to play ?

[Sleepdoc-iBeta]

2 things no one has mentioned yet.

#1.

Can we finally download maps in GRAW2 without the need to then reboot to play them?

#2

Can we please get a scroll bar in the custom map list so that we can see all of them, no matter how long the list gets?

(and feel free to give us an option to order them by dates and/or alphabetical order and/or author).

[GRIN_Wolfsong]

#1.

Can we finally download maps in GRAW2 without the need to then reboot to play them?

From what I understand the engine doesn't support this. It reads some files into memory at startup.

I guess a system could be made so it restarts the game while still in some mod selection menu and then bring you right back there. Kind of what GR1 did, but it didn't reload the interface and some other files so it wasn't a full restart which was still required to get all the content of the mods activated. So the system in GR1 was far from perfect as well.

We'll see how it works on release though, but I wouldn't hold my breath as it wasn't implemented in all the patches for GRAW1.

[Cangaroo.TNT]

Look at Viiper's post in the beta forum for a reference to #1.

Kind of what GR1 did, but it didn't reload the interface and some other files so it wasn't a full restart which was still required to get all the content of the mods activated.

Please explain to those of us not in the industry exactly what the benefit is of a "partial" restart if it does not not activate the mod content. Do you still need a full restart to play the mod? If so, then why is that a feature people would want?

On a side note, the only game I can think of where any custom map could be played without the need to D/L content was Delta Force series by Novalogic.

[viiiper]

Look at Viiper's post in the beta forum for a reference to #1.

Yes I think I was pushing the amount of info I should be posting in open forum re: GRAW2, but as I can not post into the closed Beta forum area, all I can say is the ref: to that question stands. It's a small price to pay in view of all the other features mentioned in the previous posts. If you were part of the beta, then look into the quick bundle of GRAW2 beta for alot of your answers, they are there, buried in the lines of script.

Once again, my apologies to GRIN for posting some sensitive details of your new baby

[GRIN_Wolfsong]

Please explain to those of us not in the industry exactly what the benefit is of a "partial" restart if it does not not activate the mod content.

Partial restart isn't really a benefit. It's just what GR1 does when you activate mods (in other words leave the mod selection screen). If you activate a full conversion mod in GR1 that mods everything in the game, like my mod, you'll notice that everything is not reloaded and won't be accessible in the mod until you restart the entire game.

Do you still need a full restart to play the mod?

You can play the mods with the partial restart in GR1, but to get access to all it's features (of course depending on what parts of the game the mod affects) the game has to be fully restarted.

This probably isn't possible in GRAW. From what I understand (and this is not fact in any way) it reads through all the XMB files at startup, makes sure those are encoded from the XML files if they are missing (and stores them in memory I think). It also checks through the texture library at startup and logs the locations of all textures and XMB files inside the different bundles based ont eh bundle priority. These are operations that takes much of the startup time when something is added, like a new map, and has to be processed.

If so, then why is that a feature people would want?

I don't know. I always restarted GR1 after activating mods as I noticed what I described above on several occasions. But people still want an implementation like in GR1. I just think they haven't noticed the entire picture of the mod system in GR1. But for maps and weapons only I think it worked with that engine.

But the "partial" restart I was talking about for the GRAW engine wouldn't really be a partial one. It would simply restart everything but wouldn't run the intro movies and such and the user would come back inside the mod selection menu afterwards. It would help with selecting which mods to have activated as the user have an interface to select them in instead of doing it outside the game, and it would do a restart without the user having to quit and then start the game manually. So it would still be better then nothing and a more user friendly interface. But if it's really doable I don't know as I don't have that much insight in how the Diesel engine that the game uses works in detail.

Edited May 26, 2007 by Wolfsong

[Cangaroo.TNT]

[T]he "partial" restart I was talking about for the GRAW engine wouldn't really be a partial one. It would simply restart everything but wouldn't run the intro movies and such and the user would come back inside the mod selection menu afterwards. It would help with selecting which mods to have activated as the user have an interface to select them in instead of doing it outside the game, and it would do a restart without the user having to quit and then start the game manually. So it would still be better then nothing and a more user friendly interface.

In that case then yes, I could see how it would make a lot of people here very happy.

[Sleepdoc-iBeta]

@Cangaroo.

Thanks. I just read that thread in the Beta forums and it was veryintersting indeed.

As you know, I used to map alot in Novalogic's Delta force BHD, but that ma making had no scripting. you pretty much just mauevered 3D objects into place and built stuff. It was a lego kit and had nothing to do with AI or scripting.

I wonder how I could go about learning to script and develop in GRAW2PC's SDK and mod tools?

Hmm....

[thr0tt]

Genius. Imagine that, a MP game that makes you restart a game to use the content you just downloaded to join the server you just 'clicked'. I would like to shake the hand of the genius who decided that was a good idea in GRIN.

Why not call it a 'feature', it may make it look better, similar to the 'edge smoothing' thing ?

[Papa6]

why not implement an auto restart?

download said map, game says you need to restart to use map, click ok and then the game exits and restarts itself.

alot of apps restart themselves for mostly the same reasons.

[Tinker]

why not implement an auto restart?

download said map, game says you need to restart to use map, click ok and then the game exits and restarts itself.

alot of apps restart themselves for mostly the same reasons.

We like that idea.

Tinker

[JASGripen]

It would be nice to have auto DL of all kind of mods too, not only maps. I hope it is possible in GRAW2 as the game will last longer if the feature is at place and working as it should.

[Papa6]

I think since GRAW2 still uses the bundle file setup, they can establish a feature that reads mod bundles. think of it, if it reads map bundles why not also mod bundles in the same folder?

map

map

map

mod

mod

map

and the game reads all these bundles. mods get implemented using the textures and what not of the modder

it's feasible

[ARDelta]

The ability to auto-download maps in GRAW1 was a huge step in the right direction. It wasn't active on all servers due to bandwidth concerns and configuration/maintenance difficulties. The most frustrating thing is to get a message like "the server is running map 'potx_road' which is not on your system." So, you go off happily looking for the "potx_road" map to no avail because on all of the download sites it's called something like "Industrial Highway," but you have no way of knowing that. Modders could help out in that respect.

[FI_FlimFlam]

You know I find it interesting the stance on the autodownload is pretty much supportive now. However prior to GRAW it was primarily negative with MANY MANY people adamantly saying they didn't want it for whatever reason - like say they didn't want anything auto "installed" on their computer. Now it's almost like it's a complete 180. I just find it an interesting observation.

Unfortunately, I have not had the chance to read the latest discussions in the beta forum (I cleared my cache and cookies and forgot the passord to the forum LOL). So forgive me if I am repeating or missing something contained there in.

I completely support auto-download of maps. I'm not as supportive of the auto-download of mods unless the handling of mods is better handled by "activation" and segregated from other mods and or "vanilla" servers. The mix and match approach just doesn't cut it and leads to too many issues and conflicts with people essentially playing different versions of the game in the same server. If they make it so everyone has to play the same game then I'd be more inclined to accept auto-DL of mods.

I'd like to point out one of the problems of the restart of the game and is one that I passed on to GRIN a while ago. As a server host, player retention is a good thing. With the confusing nature of the current implementation, it was often that when a player was kicked for not having a map, they were just as likely to move on to another server than to goto the trouble of downloading the map. Player retention improves greatly when the whole process becomes as seamless as possible. I understand (somewhat) the nature of the engine implementation and the anti-cheat. However, I do think they could have attempted to segregate the maps from the other stock assets not contained in the map bundle and then check the clients with the servers upon loading of the map. That way they are bypassing the need to restart the game with the loading of a new map, increase player retention, and also reducing the startup time by not pre-loading/scanning ALL the maps (aka map bloat).

I really wish they would have addressed this as that many people currently have to juggle maps in their custom map folders depending on the MP game type they are going to play at that moment. If GRAW2 follows in the same implementation, then we can look forward to the same problems - especially if the map making takes off for the game. With the promise of the same tools as GRIN, then we really could eventually be looking at a worse situation than in GRAW.

Edited May 27, 2007 by FI_FlimFlam

[GRIN_Wolfsong]

I think since GRAW2 still uses the bundle file setup, they can establish a feature that reads mod bundles. think of it, if it reads map bundles why not also mod bundles in the same folder?

map

map

map

mod

mod

map

and the game reads all these bundles. mods get implemented using the textures and what not of the modder

it's feasible

You still need a system to set priority to the bundes if you want it to work that way. Or else it will be just random which gets highest priority every time you start the game.

With the promise of the same tools as GRIN, then we really could eventually be looking at a worse situation than in GRAW.

This is an interesting statement. The editor that came in the patches for GRAW was essentially the same editor they used to make GRAW. But people complained anyhow. What additional tools do you think the community will get this time? But I agree that there maybe more maps this time as some people has already learned how to use the editor this time around.

However, I do think they could have attempted to segregate the maps from the other stock assets not contained in the map bundle and then check the clients with the servers upon loading of the map.

I guess they could. As long as the map doesn't use any custom graphics or textures. Then it has to be logged into the system like everything else at game startup if I understand everything correctly. But then, who's to say that there will be separate map bundles in GRAW2? There may just be mod bundles that can contain mixed modding stuff and then it's basically just like it was in GR1 where a mods folder (now bundle then) could contain any combination of modded material. And if so the game can never know what's inside it until it has checked the entire content like it does at startup.

Edited May 27, 2007 by Wolfsong

[Colin]

2 things no one has mentioned yet.

#1.

Can we finally download maps in GRAW2 without the need to then reboot to play them?

#2

Can we please get a scroll bar in the custom map list so that we can see all of them, no matter how long the list gets?

(and feel free to give us an option to order them by dates and/or alphabetical order and/or author).

Auto download as a gamer is not too high on my list of things to have, many other things would come way before this little extra.

If it is in, it needs to be implemented with no fuss just something that happens in the background.

If you dont have the map when the map is being played then it needs to activate on the next map scan by the server on the next round.

Most people I know at the moment who play none stock maps get them directly off the server, if they enjoy the server and the players on that server.

[Papa6]

You know I find it interesting the stance on the autodownload is pretty much supportive now. However prior to GRAW it was primarily negative with MANY MANY people adamantly saying they didn't want it for whatever reason - like say they didn't want anything auto "installed" on their computer. Now it's almost like it's a complete 180. I just find it an interesting observation.

Unfortunately, I have not had the chance to read the latest discussions in the beta forum (I cleared my cache and cookies and forgot the passord to the forum LOL). So forgive me if I am repeating or missing something contained there in.

I completely support auto-download of maps. I'm not as supportive of the auto-download of mods unless the handling of mods is better handled by "activation" and segregated from other mods and or "vanilla" servers. The mix and match approach just doesn't cut it and leads to too many issues and conflicts with people essentially playing different versions of the game in the same server. If they make it so everyone has to play the same game then I'd be more inclined to accept auto-DL of mods.

I'd like to point out one of the problems of the restart of the game and is one that I passed on to GRIN a while ago. As a server host, player retention is a good thing. With the confusing nature of the current implementation, it was often that when a player was kicked for not having a map, they were just as likely to move on to another server than to goto the trouble of downloading the map. Player retention improves greatly when the whole process becomes as seamless as possible. I understand (somewhat) the nature of the engine implementation and the anti-cheat. However, I do think they could have attempted to segregate the maps from the other stock assets not contained in the map bundle and then check the clients with the servers upon loading of the map. That way they are bypassing the need to restart the game with the loading of a new map, increase player retention, and also reducing the startup time by not pre-loading/scanning ALL the maps (aka map bloat).

I really wish they would have addressed this as that many people currently have to juggle maps in their custom map folders depending on the MP game type they are going to play at that moment. If GRAW2 follows in the same implementation, then we can look forward to the same problems - especially if the map making takes off for the game. With the promise of the same tools as GRIN, then we really could eventually be looking at a worse situation than in GRAW.

I have sent numerous PM's to Grinners asking them to implement [GR] folder style hierachy(sp?). I'm not sure Grin knows what to give us in the way of modding. so I find myself having to settle on the best i can get.

But I'll have to wait and see.

[viiiper]

You know I find it interesting the stance on the autodownload is pretty much supportive now. However prior to GRAW it was primarily negative with MANY MANY people adamantly saying they didn't want it for whatever reason - like say they didn't want anything auto "installed" on their computer. Now it's almost like it's a complete 180. I just find it an interesting observation.

Unfortunately, I have not had the chance to read the latest discussions in the beta forum (I cleared my cache and cookies and forgot the passord to the forum LOL). So forgive me if I am repeating or missing something contained there in.

I completely support auto-download of maps. I'm not as supportive of the auto-download of mods unless the handling of mods is better handled by "activation" and segregated from other mods and or "vanilla" servers. The mix and match approach just doesn't cut it and leads to too many issues and conflicts with people essentially playing different versions of the game in the same server. If they make it so everyone has to play the same game then I'd be more inclined to accept auto-DL of mods.

I'd like to point out one of the problems of the restart of the game and is one that I passed on to GRIN a while ago. As a server host, player retention is a good thing. With the confusing nature of the current implementation, it was often that when a player was kicked for not having a map, they were just as likely to move on to another server than to goto the trouble of downloading the map. Player retention improves greatly when the whole process becomes as seamless as possible. I understand (somewhat) the nature of the engine implementation and the anti-cheat. However, I do think they could have attempted to segregate the maps from the other stock assets not contained in the map bundle and then check the clients with the servers upon loading of the map. That way they are bypassing the need to restart the game with the loading of a new map, increase player retention, and also reducing the startup time by not pre-loading/scanning ALL the maps (aka map bloat).

I really wish they would have addressed this as that many people currently have to juggle maps in their custom map folders depending on the MP game type they are going to play at that moment. If GRAW2 follows in the same implementation, then we can look forward to the same problems - especially if the map making takes off for the game. With the promise of the same tools as GRIN, then we really could eventually be looking at a worse situation than in GRAW.

I have sent numerous PM's to Grinners asking them to implement [GR] folder style hierachy(sp?). I'm not sure Grin knows what to give us in the way of modding. so I find myself having to settle on the best i can get.

But I'll have to wait and see.

As a work around it would be nice if before joining the server, that clicking on the info button in Gamespy, would give you a list of the current maps in rotation on that server & the possibility for the server admins to place a message of their choosing, so as to direct players to their website for downloads. This at least would be better than the mish-mash we have now, where you only know when the map comes up in rotation and you have to download/ leave/ restart & eventually rejoin that one server.

[Cangaroo.TNT]

I know this isn't a solution, but here is what I do:

When I'm in the lobby and see a server playing a map I do not have, I click on that server and d/l the map. I do that for every new map I see. Then, once I've d/l'd all the new maps, I then join a server playing a map I do have.

The next time I start the game, I can play any of the maps I d/l'd the previous night.

[Bota:16]

Yeah I tried that also but after awhile it took forever for the game to load and seemed to take longer for all maps to load on a map change.

[ROCO*AFZ*]

Yeah... i had like 29 custom maps and started gettting disconnect timeouts when joining servers.

I agree with VIIPER... but lets take this a step further. In server info a list of maps and/or mods with a download link next to them. and when joining an option to download all maps a server has.

I hate downloading 1 map then restarting playing the remaining 5 min then downloading the next.

Also in the Server info... list all weapons available. if GL's are off i want to know before joining.

[FI_FlimFlam]

Yeah... i had like 29 custom maps and started gettting disconnect timeouts when joining servers.

This is part of the map bloat problem that I mentioned and why some people are juggling maps in their custom maps folder - like putting in all the TDM maps when they play TDM, and then changing out the [GR] maps when they want to play [GR].

I agree with VIIPER... but lets take this a step further. In server info a list of maps and/or mods with a download link next to them. and when joining an option to download all maps a server has.

I hate downloading 1 map then restarting playing the remaining 5 min then downloading the next.

Also in the Server info... list all weapons available. if GL's are off i want to know before joining.

I definitely agree with the server info. Alot of other games do this. However it probably much too late to hope for it and unless they change the information that the server provides in a query, it won't be possible. If I recall correctly the dedicated server doesn't provide that information in the GS query. They would have to rework the dedicated server and game client in order to provide that information. Granted it doesn't seem like it would be a major rework but it would have to be tested as well. It would be a while before anything like that would be implemented. I also doubt it would be approved for a future patch at this point as that it probably wouldn't be seen as a critical issue.

[JASGripen]

It would be good if the server not only showed which maps are on rotation, but also allow DL of all of them at once., Now you will auto DL the current map, only to be kicked when the next map appears, repeatedly...

[Sleepdoc-iBeta]

It would be good if the server not only showed which maps are on rotation, but also allow DL of all of them at once., Now you will auto DL the current map, only to be kicked when the next map appears, repeatedly...

Thats a pretty good diea.

Give the player 2 button choices.

Download map

or

Download entire maop rotation for this server.

Of course, if you chose teh latter, it would have to avoid downloading ones it already had somehow by looking in your custom level folder.

[ROCO*AFZ*]

It would be good if the server not only showed which maps are on rotation, but also allow DL of all of them at once., Now you will auto DL the current map, only to be kicked when the next map appears, repeatedly...

Thats a pretty good diea.

Give the player 2 button choices.

Download map

or

Download entire maop rotation for this server.

Of course, if you chose teh latter, it would have to avoid downloading ones it already had somehow by looking in your custom level folder.

It would have to replace all of them. This is why. Sometimes map mapmakers redo or fix there map. if it didn't you would get kicked for not having the right version of the map which would lead to confusion.