haven't seen any FOG!

[th33f.]

judging from the screens, there's not going to be any bad weather again. day/night cycle is great, but again, apologies for beating a dead horse, [GR] had fog in 80% of its maps and people loved it. each map's design was balanced to the thickness of the fog, it was perfect.

GRAW maps like Strongpoint, Avenues and Church even, would've been a lot more popular if there was any kind of protection from 2000 foot snipe shots... like FOG! in GR it was essential to the gameplay. unless the map was in the "small" category(Day Docks), or at least split up into smaller parts by design(Embassy), the thickness of the air was always there on the bigger maps, to protect players from spawn-to-spawn snipe kills.

it's just surprising that a game like GRAW, and GRAW2 as well, with all their effects, fail to reproduce such simple aspects of the environment, like fog, rain, and snow. if you go play GRAW adversarial MP today, you'll find that those who choose to snipe end up with at least 5 to 1 k/d ratio, if they're any decent. those that really get off on hiding on a roof all game, often get 20+ kils with one or two deaths per game. most players would be able to do the same thing, only such style of play isn't very attractive to most people. i take an assault rifle because it's fun to use it, and if i'm forced to fight a sniper i'll keep trying with an AR or quit the server. i don't snipe, it's not for me(not enough patience maybe), but a couple of sneaky snipers can sure offset a well balanced game, and that's what i want to be protected from.

what can you tell us on this, GRIN?

Edited March 8, 2007 by th33f.

[Cangaroo.TNT]

Good points, but when GRAW came out, people were (and still are) complaining about NOT being able to snipe from 1500m. Fog would further complicate that LOL. I'm with you, though. Sniping is not for me.

[Hockeystick]

Too few screenshots have been released so we can't really draw any conclusions yet. I think the screens would just show the difference in day light, not in weather.

However I wouldn't hold my breath.

[GRIN_Wolfsong]

Fog was needed in those days to limit the drawing distance more then you have today. It made it possible to only render within a certain distance from the player. As computers have gotten stronger, and especially the GPUs, fog isn't needed anymore and a more lifelike environment can be displayed as most weather doesn't have any fog.

That explains why GR1 had it in actually all maps, not just 80%.

But of course fog gives a certain mood, and for some sorts of weather it's needed. Maybe it's not such weather during the 2-3 days GRAW2 is taking place.

[Cangaroo.TNT]

But of course fog gives a certain mood, and for some sorts of weather it's needed. Maybe it's not such weather during the 2-3 days GRAW2 is taking place.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that GRAW2 includes weather effects, if not for the game then for modding. Does anyone else recall reading that?

[th33f.]

Fog was needed in those days to limit the drawing distance more then you have today. It made it possible to only render within a certain distance from the player. As computers have gotten stronger, and especially the GPUs, fog isn't needed anymore and a more lifelike environment can be displayed as most weather doesn't have any fog.

That explains why GR1 had it in actually all maps, not just 80%.

But of course fog gives a certain mood, and for some sorts of weather it's needed. Maybe it's not such weather during the 2-3 days GRAW2 is taking place.

plenty of maps had zero fog, like DS Riverbed or, again, Embassy. by the time Island Thunder expansion has come out draw distance was surely not an issue. most IT maps had fog in them to simulate the tropical climate, not out of any GPU resources concerns. more than half GR maps didn't "work" without fog. clear Ghost Town always turned into a ridiculous shootout from miles away.

adding good looking fog would probably pose a hit on a lot of lower-end video card users' framerates, even today, but it does add a new dimension to the game. and besides, GRAW1 has MP maps with rain on x360! i guess they're hesitant to make the move to that on PC, because nothing short of a 512MB card will be able to give you any decent FPS in MP. that, of course, repulses a lot of buyers, and they don't want that, do they?

i think they should at least keep it in mind for a later implementation. wheather and fog was probably one of the most distinctive features of the GR series. it's too bad the console versions still have it. we get played as usual...

[Tinker]

Some Fog, Storms, etc, would be kewl.Fog makes many diffrent things happen, if you can change it to your map style. It must be modable to begin with. Bringing in the Fog on some maps may need the AI fixing i guess?

Tinker

[Bota:16]

Since I live about 30 miles from where GRAW 2 is taking place I can say that fog isn't something that happens here very often, it's quite rare actually. And the only weather we get here is HEAT and WIND and plenty of each.

[Tinker]

Since I live about 30 miles from where GRAW 2 is taking place I can say that fog isn't something that happens here very often, it's quite rare actually. And the only weather we get here is HEAT and WIND and plenty of each.

Bk on topic, would be nice to see some is all we ask!

Tinker

[Peace]

GRAW maps like Strongpoint, Avenues and Church even, would've been a lot more popular if there was any kind of protection from 2000 foot snipe shots... like FOG! in GR it was essential to the gameplay.

Th33f, those shots don't happen because the draw distance of opponents in GRAW is 150 meters, beyond that distance the enemies magically become invisible. Try it out on Strongpoint with somebody on coms, you'll see

That is a major GRAW flaw, I mean draw distance should be as far as you can see! (you can see structures and such but voala! enemies just vanishes beyond 150 m.) I hope they've corrected that in GRAW 2...

However, I definitely agree that variable fog should exist on maps, anything from clear (like "Riverbed") to heavy fog (like "Swamp"). Makes gameplay more interesting and variable.

[Tinker]

Since I live about 30 miles from where GRAW 2 is taking place I can say that fog isn't something that happens here very often

Taking Mexico as a whole Place, I been there, they have RAIN/FOG/THUNDER

We have a member who lives there also.

Mexico does not always Shine the Big Sun.

Variables do.

Tinker

[ROCO*AFZ*]

There is a "fog" GRAW was designed to run post effects high... but no one does at things become blurry at a distance. at 150mm the enemies majically appear because with post effects on high you would not be able to see them do to the blurring effect. Check it out.

[th33f.]

GRAW maps like Strongpoint, Avenues and Church even, would've been a lot more popular if there was any kind of protection from 2000 foot snipe shots... like FOG! in GR it was essential to the gameplay.

Th33f, those shots don't happen because the draw distance of opponents in GRAW is 150 meters, beyond that distance the enemies magically become invisible. Try it out on Strongpoint with somebody on coms, you'll see

That is a major GRAW flaw, I mean draw distance should be as far as you can see! (you can see structures and such but voala! enemies just vanishes beyond 150 m.) I hope they've corrected that in GRAW 2...

However, I definitely agree that variable fog should exist on maps, anything from clear (like "Riverbed") to heavy fog (like "Swamp"). Makes gameplay more interesting and variable.

i'm aware of that limitation, Peace, there's just one thing. [GR] maps weren't very big either, as a 3D scene they measured a maximum of 400 meters, if i remember correctly, but... just like in GRAW, the game world seems inflated to us on the screen because of the camera FOV angle we're stuck with. in fact, if there was an identical limitation in [GR], even lightly fogged maps would not let you see the effect; the fog would kick in sooner. did the long range shots on Tank not seem far away enough for you? what you call a flaw in GRAW is to me a failed attempt to replace the fog effect. as Roco said, on all settings high, the image is washed out enough to create a good enough illusion of a wall of air between you and the target, but since that can't be forced onto every player in MP, it wasn't possible to make the effect more pronounced. it would actually cripple the players using high video settings. i guess it's very hard to match the look of distorted air to a simplified brightness gradient on lower settings... this is where consoles have a hell of an advantage over PCs. even though we have access to much faster GPU's than those in x360's/PS3's, we don't see the same effects in our games as consolers do, untill better GPU's become common enough. it's quite sad.

[Bota:16]

Since I live about 30 miles from where GRAW 2 is taking place I can say that fog isn't something that happens here very often

Taking Mexico as a whole Place, I been there, they have RAIN/FOG/THUNDER

We have a member who lives there also.

Mexico does not always Shine the Big Sun.

Variables do.

Tinker

While I don't live in Mexico but I do know what you are saying. I am about 30 miles from the border where the game predominantly takes place (Juarez/El Paso). Yes it does rain here with lightning and thunder too but fog isn't something that happens on a regular basis if even on a yearly basis.

Whether or not that is the reason why there is no fog in the game, I don't know, I was just throwing that out there as part of the discussion.

[GRIN_Wolfsong]

plenty of maps had zero fog, like DS Riverbed or, again, Embassy. by the time Island Thunder expansion has come out draw distance was surely not an issue. most IT maps had fog in them to simulate the tropical climate, not out of any GPU resources concerns. more than half GR maps didn't "work" without fog. clear Ghost Town always turned into a ridiculous shootout from miles away.

I'm not disagreeing with fog would be nice, but there is actually fog on all GR1 maps. It's just at different distances so you don't need as much backdrop environment.

[Forrester]

My opinion.

Draw distance should be better (500m at least) to differ the sniping/normal shooting and make close combat more intense.

And fog...well at least there will be rain, just let some duststorms like on the custom maps kick in.....

[Toniezz]

Some Fog, Storms, etc, would be kewl.Fog makes many diffrent things happen, if you can change it to your map style. It must be modable to begin with. Bringing in the Fog on some maps may need the AI fixing i guess?

Tinker

[inside joke]

Indeed, I am looking forward to a mission where visibility decreases every minute with a meter to a minimum of say 55 meters? Or even dynamic. That would just be an awesome map! It makes different tactical approaches possible.

huh oh sorry wrong forum, thought I was in the [GR] forums

[/inside joke]

I would miss the legendary words:

"Can't see squat in this fog!"

"If we can't see them, they can't see us!"

Edited March 9, 2007 by Toniezz

[Peace]

plenty of maps had zero fog, like DS Riverbed or, again, Embassy. by the time Island Thunder expansion has come out draw distance was surely not an issue. most IT maps had fog in them to simulate the tropical climate, not out of any GPU resources concerns. more than half GR maps didn't "work" without fog. clear Ghost Town always turned into a ridiculous shootout from miles away.

I'm not disagreeing with fog would be nice, but there is actually fog on all GR1 maps. It's just at different distances so you don't need as much backdrop environment.

Just a note, in the end Th33f refers to the modded maps used occasionally for fun games MP. They were totally clear, no fog at all (example clear Ghost Town, clear Battlefield etc).

Imo the lack of the occational fog is another example of obvious game regress since [GR]:

Lost of fog on certain maps created variability, suspense, the element of surprise, and atmosphere.

Just remember the rainy [GR] Island Thunder map (can't recall name) with the camp surrounded by trees, some rocks in west and north and a couple of guard towers (one in northeast and one in southwest). The damp mist was variable and sometimes the haze drifted away and the guard tower came into view for a few seconds then only to disappear in mist again . I call that atmosphere!

It was 'disappointing' to see that after 5 years of improved computer technology, that element of variable weather be totally removed. Sure thing GRAW is in Mexico, but who cares if the weather is super realistic? (but I believe there may be some variable haze in the mornings in Mexico too and some rain occationally)

To me obviously the [GR] variable fog on maps is a better solution than the GRAW post effects (which everybody in MP sets to low or off anyway) and an annoying 'magic' static clipping distance at 150 meters.

[j-man]

... [GR] had fog in 80% of its maps and people loved it.

hahahaha

back when [GR] was the only GR, people were always complaining about it and trying to find ways around it. While I do agree it worked wonders on the swamp map (really miss being able to sneak up that close and find yourself right on top of someone... imagine that map with GRAW:X graphics !) Most people didnt like it on all the maps. As Wolfsong said, it was on all maps and used to hide the clippings. I would like to see it on some maps ( if there is a swampy one, or in conjunction with rain to give a map a "murky" feel) but dont want the [GR] extreme use of fog

Edited March 9, 2007 by j-man

[th33f.]

... [GR] had fog in 80% of its maps and people loved it.

hahahaha

back when [GR] was the only GR, people were always complaining about it and trying to find ways around it. While I do agree it worked wonders on the swamp map (really miss being able to sneak up that close and find yourself right on top of someone... imagine that map with GRAW:X graphics !) Most people didnt like it on all the maps. As Wolfsong said, it was on all maps and used to hide the clippings. I would like to see it on some maps ( if there is a swampy one, or in conjunction with rain to give a map a "murky" feel) but dont want the [GR] extreme use of fog

you're right, a lot of maps were horrible to play with thick fog. most people simply avoided them. but have you tried playing clear Tank map or clear Airbase and Red Square? those were impossible to play without the fog build up over distance. you could see very far, but never all the way through. fog intensity was scaled to the design of the map and the combination always seemed to work perfectly. clear Train Depot anyone? the gameplay turned into a point-and-click-and-twitch-peek-glitch fest. the GR atmosphere was gone.

[NoQuarter]

i don't snipe, it's not for me(not enough patience maybe), but a couple of sneaky snipers can sure offset a well balanced game, and that's what i want to be protected from.

That's what counter-snipers are for.

' date='Mar 8 2007, 03:32 PM' post='454108']

But of course fog gives a certain mood, and for some sorts of weather it's needed. Maybe it's not such weather during the 2-3 days GRAW2 is taking place.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that GRAW2 includes weather effects, if not for the game then for modding. Does anyone else recall reading that?

Yeah, but it might have been mis-worded or that the meaning was lost in translation.

http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/noje/story/0...,976648,00.html

http://www.ghostrecon.net/forums/index.php...1454&st=15#

[Hockeystick]

“The three day drama†has made Ubisoft and Grin to develop an impressive daylights cycle with very nice and varied weather effects.

Lets wait and see

[Toniezz]

The new PC screens:

Two new PC screens (new to me anyway).

In this picture you can see friendlies in non-Advanced Warfighter attire and the "loyalists" icon in the command menu, possibly indicating that the Ghosts will work with loyal Mexican forces against the rebels. Edit: There is also a bright blue colum which may indicate a "move to" point, as seen in GRAW2 360.

Perhaps more interesting is this picture which shows the new ACU (uniform). Note that while Mitchell is holding a SCAR rifle, the weapons icon shows the new Beretta Storm rifle, probably because the pic was taken from a beta. Also note that the "picture-in-picture-from-helmet-cam" does not have full 3D vision but something akin to GRAW1 wireframes. But perhaps most intersting, the Ghost on the left is holding what appear to be a camouflaged M14 marksman rifle (or some other M14 derivative).

show some sort of fog or dust. Now 'vertical warfare' is supposed to be implemented in GRAW2 it would be nice if in a rural environment the fog/myst only takes place in the first 2-3 meters off the grond. So anybody higher than that would be able to see only shadows or even nothing either. Would be a kool extra.

[Ryan243]

... [GR] had fog in 80% of its maps and people loved it.

hahahaha

back when [GR] was the only GR, people were always complaining about it and trying to find ways around it.

You mean like this? I think it's obvious which side I'm on in this debate.

I like to be able to see far away.

[Peace]

I like to be able to see far away.

Me too, but variability is great, and in GRAW the 150 m clipping plane makes long distance sniping problematic.

You either don't see the enemy at all (because it is >150 m) despite you see structures and trees etc, or the enemy suddenly appears because he/she crossed the magic "150 m line"...(at least in MP, don't know about SP because I don't play it)

Imo fog on some maps would make the game more enjoyable with variable view distance, i.e., everything from clear "Riverbed" conditions to foggy "Swamp" to speak in [GR] terms.