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cajun47

so 360 owner get a graw 2 demo but no word on pc?

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Just like Rainbow Six Vegas. The console fanboys got their SP demo a month before the actual release. PC version still doesn't have a demo to this day. It wouldn't surprise me if this repeats again.

Ubi...disgusts me.

Edited by intelfactor

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Don't push it. I rather see PC and X-box taking their time respectively. The idea that GRAW PC must be released about the same time as X-box led to the bad start and multiple patching. It is actually separate games, and I hope they will be looked upon as such by Ubi (marketing department can not agree at all of course).

To bad with Vegas though.

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Yeah, it's horrible. Ubisoft is pandering to it's clients. I mean, how dare they focus on their bottom line?

Sure, it sucks from the PC gamer point of view, but seriously, if the console market is dominant, why should Ubisoft step out of the box? Console gaming is out the door in terms of sales. PC gaming is a footnote these days. While I appreciate the distaste of a fellow PC gamer, it's a lost cause, and has been for a long time.

To point out a fact that is a bit buried these days: [GR], and I don't mean the GRAW co-op mode, was meant to be an Xbox (console!) launch title. The GR we know and love should have seen day one of the Xbox console launch day. Microsoft's technological issues prevented that.

[GR] was a pushed back Xbox title that also hit the PC. [GR] was a PC title that was pushed back on the Xbox.

The console market dominates at this time; it will continue to do so. Sorry. No matter how pricey a DX10 video card you buy, no matter how many gigs of RAM you buy, the console market will dominate. This is a historically a fact. Sure, there were moments when the (PC as in x86 Microsoft platform) was the industry leader, but those days are gone. They may come back, briefly, but it's still in the past.

Oh, and in the new generation of in-game advertisement, is it s a shock that a pay-to-play environment live Live! would get a demo, while the free to download platform (PC) would be relegated to second place?

Gaming is a business. Frag Dolls, television commercials, ads in game... the list goes on. It sucks, but games are almost as big an industry as Hollywood, these days. In fact, some games have bigger budgets than some Hollywood movies.

Welcome to commercial enterprise.

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Yeah, it's horrible. Ubisoft is pandering to it's clients. I mean, how dare they focus on their bottom line?

Sure, it sucks from the PC gamer point of view, but seriously, if the console market is dominant, why should Ubisoft step out of the box? Console gaming is out the door in terms of sales. PC gaming is a footnote these days. While I appreciate the distaste of a fellow PC gamer, it's a lost cause, and has been for a long time.

To point out a fact that is a bit buried these days: [GR], and I don't mean the GRAW co-op mode, was meant to be an Xbox (console!) launch title. The GR we know and love should have seen day one of the Xbox console launch day. Microsoft's technological issues prevented that.

[GR] was a pushed back Xbox title that also hit the PC. [GR] was a PC title that was pushed back on the Xbox.

The console market dominates at this time; it will continue to do so. Sorry. No matter how pricey a DX10 video card you buy, no matter how many gigs of RAM you buy, the console market will dominate. This is a historically a fact. Sure, there were moments when the (PC as in x86 Microsoft platform) was the industry leader, but those days are gone. They may come back, briefly, but it's still in the past.

Oh, and in the new generation of in-game advertisement, is it s a shock that a pay-to-play environment live Live! would get a demo, while the free to download platform (PC) would be relegated to second place?

Gaming is a business. Frag Dolls, television commercials, ads in game... the list goes on. It sucks, but games are almost as big an industry as Hollywood, these days. In fact, some games have bigger budgets than some Hollywood movies.

Welcome to commercial enterprise.

Indeed right on the money.

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Yeah, it's horrible. Ubisoft is pandering to it's clients. I mean, how dare they focus on their bottom line?

Sure, it sucks from the PC gamer point of view, but seriously, if the console market is dominant, why should Ubisoft step out of the box? Console gaming is out the door in terms of sales. PC gaming is a footnote these days. While I appreciate the distaste of a fellow PC gamer, it's a lost cause, and has been for a long time.

To point out a fact that is a bit buried these days: [GR], and I don't mean the GRAW co-op mode, was meant to be an Xbox (console!) launch title. The GR we know and love should have seen day one of the Xbox console launch day. Microsoft's technological issues prevented that.

[GR] was a pushed back Xbox title that also hit the PC. [GR] was a PC title that was pushed back on the Xbox.

The console market dominates at this time; it will continue to do so. Sorry. No matter how pricey a DX10 video card you buy, no matter how many gigs of RAM you buy, the console market will dominate. This is a historically a fact. Sure, there were moments when the (PC as in x86 Microsoft platform) was the industry leader, but those days are gone. They may come back, briefly, but it's still in the past.

Oh, and in the new generation of in-game advertisement, is it s a shock that a pay-to-play environment live Live! would get a demo, while the free to download platform (PC) would be relegated to second place?

Gaming is a business. Frag Dolls, television commercials, ads in game... the list goes on. It sucks, but games are almost as big an industry as Hollywood, these days. In fact, some games have bigger budgets than some Hollywood movies.

Welcome to commercial enterprise.

the facts make me sad

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To point out a fact that is a bit buried these days: [GR], and I don't mean the GRAW co-op mode, was meant to be an Xbox (console!) launch title. The GR we know and love should have seen day one of the Xbox console launch day. Microsoft's technological issues prevented that

Correct.. which delayed it over a year. (i think they were either up in the air about the processor or the video in the xbox)

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I'm too tired to write a full post, so:

[angry rant defending pc platform]

[insane claim that bill gates and the devil are trying to kill my family]

[vague connection to x360 demo release]

[unclear insult toward console players]

[ubisoft boycot, sure 'nuff]

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I'm too tired to write a full post, so:

[angry rant defending pc platform]

[insane claim that bill gates and the devil are trying to kill my family]

[vague connection to x360 demo release]

[unclear insult toward console players]

[ubisoft boycot, sure 'nuff]

It's time for you to put your money where your mouth is. I have watched you blast modders who are trying to create a game that they want with OE and OE2, I have seen you tell a dev that there is something wrong with a pic he graciously showed as a teaser for those who may want to purchase a game that he is working on that returns to the gameplay many of us want and now this. It is time for you to show us your artistic talents with textures and models that you have created.

As shown by other websites, Ubi is in the red by some $26 million even if it is not as much as the amount that they were in 2005. As said before, if you do not wish to play PC games that is your choice either way. Those who wish to not play console games have the same right to post those thoughts here regardless of how you feel about said posts.

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As said before, if you do not wish to play PC games that is your choice either way. Those who wish to not play console games have the same right to post those thoughts here regardless of how you feel about said posts.

I play both, console and PC games.

The rest of your post doesn't seem much worth addressing, for the sake of this thread. I have a few fairly clever rebuttals I could post, but that seems primarily self indulgent.

This is a thread about demos, which has been partially derailed into a conversation about the game industry. It doesn't seem to be the place for me to defend my past statements (or, even, for you to attack them. But I may be overstepping my bounds; I guess it's up to you, and the rest of the staff, to decide that.)

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I'm too tired to write a full post, so:

[angry rant defending pc platform]

[insane claim that bill gates and the devil are trying to kill my family]

[vague connection to x360 demo release]

[unclear insult toward console players]

[ubisoft boycot, sure 'nuff]

That post made my day :D (You'll get my vote in the forums humourus awards for sure...)

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I'm too tired to write a full post, so:

[angry rant defending pc platform]

[insane claim that bill gates and the devil are trying to kill my family]

[vague connection to x360 demo release]

[unclear insult toward console players]

[ubisoft boycot, sure 'nuff]

It's time for you to put your money where your mouth is. I have watched you blast modders who are trying to create a game that they want with OE and OE2, I have seen you tell a dev that there is something wrong with a pic he graciously showed as a teaser for those who may want to purchase a game that he is working on that returns to the gameplay many of us want and now this. It is time for you to show us your artistic talents with textures and models that you have created.

As shown by other websites, Ubi is in the red by some $26 million even if it is not as much as the amount that they were in 2005. As said before, if you do not wish to play PC games that is your choice either way. Those who wish to not play console games have the same right to post those thoughts here regardless of how you feel about said posts.

Whoa... White... it was Dannik who locked and loaded and took this thread off-topic with his rant on the game industry (I happen to agree with him 100%, but that's beside the point).

Take a look inside your own house for tangos first before you draw down fire on the neighbors.

-jk

Callsign 3Point

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If some games have larger budgets than some hollywood movies I'd say that the ppl paying aren't getting their moneys worth.

A blockbuster movie employs near thousands of ppl per project, how can a studio of 200 ppl spend all that money when they have all the tools that they need in-house?

No scouting for location, nobuilding sets etc etc.

Edited by simulacra

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I don't care how long the demo takes. I just want a great game that is finish from the get go. Patches, just to fix minor problems. In my opinion, rushing GRAW was a "BIG" mistake. Just let Grin do their job and have a finish game to show for. Rushing things will not help at all. I don't care if the 360 version comes out first, and it don't have to be a "replica" of the 360 either. The game play on consoles is very different from PC(On shooters/combat simulations) I own a 360, but don't buy shooters for it. I read many times how much better GRAW for 360 was, But my choice is to stick to PC for tactical shooters. Just don't get angry if console gets the game first, just hope for a good/complete/great gameplay game. The ball is on Grin court. I hope the "Slamdunked" with authority.

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how can a studio of 200 ppl spend all that money when they have all the tools that they need in-house?

No scouting for location, nobuilding sets etc etc.

All 200 of those people are underpaid (yet still making an awful lot,) you have to have well over 200 up to date computer, and software licenses, often twice that many monitors and acessories, the game needs absurd amounts of money in marketing and distribution, and all of that probably isn't even half of it.

Forbes has a gruesomely inaccurate breakdown of development costs around somewhere. I wouldn't look to it for information, but it might be worth a laugh.

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/yawn - we all know that PC demos limit sales as its performance will suck thus lose custom.

Edited by thr0tt

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/yawn - we all know that PC demos limit sales as its performance will suck thus lose custom.

the first graw pc demo is what convinced me to buy graw in the first place.

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/yawn - we all know that PC demos limit sales as its performance will suck thus lose custom.

Alas, we know that they know... so if there's no demo the assumption tends to be that a game is shat anyway.

Whats more, if there's no demo it's not like it's difficult to obtain a playable er... sample from other sources anyway so you're essentially encouraging people to pirate a game you already think they're not going to like enough to buy :|

GG publishers.

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Well from what I've always heard, it has been console game info before PC game info. I think it might have to do with the fact that all those people actually wait in lines for hours and hours in the worst weather just to get a console. You don't see us PC gamers waiting in lines for a new videocard or processor. Cause we have the patience to wait until the stuff is available and order it off newegg or tigerdirect or some other website. But that's my input on things. Whether it's accurate or not, I'm not really sure.

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Well from what I've always heard, it has been console game info before PC game info. I think it might have to do with the fact that all those people actually wait in lines for hours and hours in the worst weather just to get a console. You don't see us PC gamers waiting in lines for a new videocard or processor. Cause we have the patience to wait until the stuff is available and order it off newegg or tigerdirect or some other website. But that's my input on things. Whether it's accurate or not, I'm not really sure.

So you are saying that PC gamers are normal people and console players are crazy people? :hmm: I think you are a carpenter, you just hit the nail in the head :devil::devil:

JUST KIDDING :D:D:D

Edited by Retlaw

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How about all those ner... I mean fellow citizens who waited for WoW The Burning Crusade? Are they crazy too :P

Edited by Hockeystick

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If we can have all we have been asking for in the game... but it takes 3+ months longer than expected to make...

Who cares?

The longer it takes the more testing and things are added in.

A demo isnt that important atm because it runs a completely differant way to the consoles, we saw that with GRAW-360 and GRAW-PC, the 2 were dramatically differant..

Simply, if you want your extras, wait it out.

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