M18 Claymore

[ToW-Angel]

This is something I'd like to see in the game... Claymores.

You can setup a defensive parameter so that you can keep them out, and I think it should take a minimum of 5 seconds to setup and no one person can carry more than 2 with a blast radius of at least 50m.

Anyone else have thoughts?

[RAbbi_74]

Might really suck on the public servers. I can envision the same guys who spawn camp certain maps just setting a couple claymores right near the spawn and walking off. And what's to stop point farming then? Set two claymores, then go into inventory and resupply them, then set two more.

Unfortunately, I think we might rather cut down on the number of explosive devices available to the average child in MP. Might be cool in one or two SP situations, though, like when you find VIP 1's limo in mission #2.

Glad you brought it up though!

[ToW-Angel]

Might really suck on the public servers. I can envision the same guys who spawn camp certain maps just setting a couple claymores right near the spawn and walking off. And what's to stop point farming then? Set two claymores, then go into inventory and resupply them, then set two more.

Unfortunately, I think we might rather cut down on the number of explosive devices available to the average child in MP. Might be cool in one or two SP situations, though, like when you find VIP 1's limo in mission #2.

Glad you brought it up though!

That's just it... They can't set more than 2 claymores... They set a third one of the first two will disappear.

[RAbbi_74]

Might really suck on the public servers. I can envision the same guys who spawn camp certain maps just setting a couple claymores right near the spawn and walking off. And what's to stop point farming then? Set two claymores, then go into inventory and resupply them, then set two more.

Unfortunately, I think we might rather cut down on the number of explosive devices available to the average child in MP. Might be cool in one or two SP situations, though, like when you find VIP 1's limo in mission #2.

Glad you brought it up though!

That's just it... They can't set more than 2 claymores... They set a third one of the first two will disappear.

Ah, but GRAW isn't set up that way. You're talking like the anit-point-farming fix in BF2. When you die and respawn, eventually your mines/claymores/whatever go away too. So does the weapons kit you left on the ground. But in GRAW, it doesn't! When I get PWNed at the spawn, and five seconds later I respawn right into the face of an incoming enemy 40mm grenade, for that brief microsecond of life I'm allowed to defend myself I can see my old corpse still sitting on the ground, limp and lifeless, magazine still tucked-in to his weapon (31 rounds, cuz I'm good like that), blood still warm and sticky on the grass. Yes, I notice ALL OF THAT in a thousandth of a second. Point being that when I die in the first minute of a 20-minute round, I can still come back 4 seconds before it's over and get my ammo off my old dead body. In BF2 where that farming issue was fixed, I couldn't. THIS would have to be addressed before claymores could be put into use, or even I would give-up GRAW MP for a while.

[ToW-Angel]

I agree that there needs to be a way to control it so it doesn't get out of hand.

[CkZWarlord]

It would be cool to be able to set traps like you can in HL2... But 50m is a tad much... 5m is enough I think, at least there will be some skill in it then Oh, and it would really suck if we had to manually detonate them... that would still render them useless for TvT MP.

I just looked it up on Wikipedia... that thing is pretty impressive:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claymore_mine

Uncontrolled (aka Victim Initiated) Mode plz

Edited July 9, 2006 by CkZWarlord

[aCid]

50meters blast radius? the maps arent even that big

[VeLocityChaos]

50meters blast radius? the maps arent even that big

Shes thinking about joint ops. With its huge never ending maps.

I dont think it would work well in a small and very urban environment like GRAW.

[RAbbi_74]

50meters blast radius? the maps arent even that big

Shes thinking about joint ops. With its huge never ending maps.

I dont think it would work well in a small and very urban environment like GRAW.

Actually, mines are PERFECT there. Like SHANTY TOWN? Sniper occupies one post. Tags opposing sniper on other side of map. Drops claymore at stairs. Moves on to next covered and concealed position. IF opposing player sneaks around to former sniper position, BAM! SPLAT! SQUISH! It's a burrito, boss...

Tight alleys, important through ways, and the most unexpected spots. They're used well in BF2 like that. I think they'd be relevant, and REALLY tick off more than a few players who haphazardly walk face-first into that huge shotgun shell of an antipersonnel mine...

[ToW-Angel]

50meters blast radius? the maps arent even that big

50m is approximately 150 feet, not as far as it seems.

Checkout the fact sheet: M18 Claymore

Edited July 9, 2006 by ToW-Angel

[VeLocityChaos]

If friendly fire is enabled. Imagine 32 players in a server. all of them dropping 2 claymores a piece. Thats possibly up to 64 claymores laying around in the relatively small maps of GRAW, definitely not going to ehance the experience for me anyway.

At 50 meters, thats approximatley 3200 square meters of claymores..Thats ridiculous.

Edited July 9, 2006 by VeLocityChaos

[RAbbi_74]

If friendly fire is enabled. Imagine 32 players in a server. all of them dropping 2 claymores a piece. Thats possibly up to 64 claymores laying around in the relatively small maps of GRAW, definitely not going to ehance the experience for me anyway.

Imagine the lag with trying to render all 64 of those blasts in a short period of time, too. Holy Cow, BATMAN! I'll take a coffee/smoke break, scratch my butt, and pet the cat for a few minutes, and come back to the next frame. I think we've got too much stuff exploding as it is, until the next wave of processors and GPU's hits the market.

But again, for COOP and SP, there are a couple spots where I can see it being employed. The embassy site in VIP 2 is down, for instance...

[ToW-Angel]

If friendly fire is enabled. Imagine 32 players in a server. all of them dropping 2 claymores a piece. Thats possibly up to 64 claymores laying around in the relatively small maps of GRAW, definitely not going to ehance the experience for me anyway.

At 50 meters, thats approximatley 3200 square meters of claymores..Thats ridiculous.

I think they should only be available to someone carrying a sniper rifle. That would definitely limit them.

Btw... In JO, they were set to about 25m blast radius... Not realistic at all.

Edited July 10, 2006 by ToW-Angel

[RAbbi_74]

And I think THAT might border too closely on copycatting BF2.

It might also go against the concept of kit flexibility, which has been quite well implemented in this game (and received less-than-due credit).

[ToW-Angel]

It might, but I also believe that a sniper is the weakest class too... they can carry the MP5 with Extra Ammo, but the rest of the classes can carry a lot more ammo, plus have a grenade launcher and extras of ammo, grenades, GL grenades.

To even out the classes, the Sniper needs a little more fire power to proect themselves.

[Nutlink]

That's the point of being a sniper though. They don't see you, you kill them and they have no idea where it came from.

[ToW-Angel]

Maybe if it were the M21 or M24, but not an M82. It's too distinctive and has a very loud report.

I believe there needs to be a silenced sniper rifle, then that would give a sniper a greater advantage.

[RAbbi_74]

It might, but I also believe that a sniper is the weakest class too... they can carry the MP5 with Extra Ammo, but the rest of the classes can carry a lot more ammo, plus have a grenade launcher and extras of ammo, grenades, GL grenades.

To even out the classes, the Sniper needs a little more fire power to proect themselves.

Well, that idea works in teh all-out brawl of DeathMatch. And yet folks still go in as snipers.

But in any team-centered game mode (COOP, DOM, as well as SP), the concept isn't a true sniper. It's more of what's called a Designated Marksman. He's part of the squad like everyone else. And his job is to engage targets effectively at ranges greater than the common assault rifles can, at the sacrifice of close-in combat effectiveness. That's what we've got everyone else for. Each has his strangths and weaknesses, his vulnerabilities and his abilities. As a TEAM, each covers the others' vulnerabilities, and they succeed or fail as ONE cohesive unit. In match play I think we'll see some of that.

Even in public servers I'm seeing a bit of it. Snipers will head to higher positions to seek out their prey, and someone with a carbine or machinegun hangs around covering the base of the sniper's position so he doesn't get overrun. Teamwork.

I disagree that the sniper is at a DISADVANTAGE for firepower, because what other direct-fire weapon consistently kills with a single shot every time? What other direct-fire weapon has such great accuracy at ranges pushing the draw limit of the game? The reasons you state are exactly the reasons that snipers in BF2 get the Claymores. They get to defend their own 'Six' and level the playing field with other players carrying better up-close firepower.

But this is GRAW. Teamwork. Tactics. Realism. That's the point of the game, dear.

Shall we just agree to disagree? Y'know I still luv ya...

[VeLocityChaos]

I actually wouldnt mind having claymores like we had in [GR]. I just dont agree with having trip mines all over the place. I loved the claymores we had in gr1 though..especially when playing SAR, placing them near the edges of all the hostage approaches..then having the snipers telling you on ts when to press the trigger. Good times..

[ToW-Angel]

I don't know about claymores in [GR], but I'm right in line with you, VC.

[CkZWarlord]

I actually wouldnt mind having claymores like we had in [GR]. I just dont agree with having trip mines all over the place. I loved the claymores we had in gr1 though..especially when playing SAR, placing them near the edges of all the hostage approaches..then having the snipers telling you on ts when to press the trigger. Good times..

That's why I wanted to suggest an uncontrolled version with a kill radius of only 5m. At

least then when a mine goes it won't blow up half the street... I like the idea of mines but

having 3200m of mines lying around on a map is indeed ridiculous, better off without realism here.

[Savage-nl]

Clays are bad, I am playing JO and clays are kinda annoying image a match 10 vs 10 and everyone uses 2 clays than you got 40 clays and cant walk or kaboom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ToW-Angel]

Clays are bad, I am playing JO and clays are kinda annoying image a match 10 vs 10 and everyone uses 2 clays than you got 40 clays and cant walk or kaboom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If Properly done in game to only allow so many per player (which JO also does, you can't lay more than 4 unlike BHD where you can lay 8)... If properly managed, and only allowing a certain class to have it, then I say go for it.

But, I get the feeling that people don't like the blast radius... Maybe 50m is too much? Why not make it 10m (~30ft)?

[Forrester]

I Am in the SP mode in one of the last missions (don't know the name right now) wheen I shoot a sniper a whole block blows up... maybe he had some boobietrap installed. It would be great fun, if you could install boobie traps (flashbangs wired/claymore and so on) but the should be wired so If you respawn, you should be able to see the threat and walk over is. But they have to fix the impossibillity to walk over a crate first.

In real special ops missions boobie traps are left to prevent the enemy from following you, or guarding a camp/meeting point.

[Fiasc0]

I thought aswell about Claymore ingame, but as said before , it will be the weapon to spawnrape and to camp. The maps include many hotspots ( always you meet 1 or 2 tangos there) also a lot which you can reach just by one way. And how would that work on Clanmatches ? I think the people will use it as weapon , what kind of restriction ever, on Pubs or other Servers and they´ll give a *beeep* to gentlemen rules.

Well formyself I forgot this idea because it would bring more frustation as fun. Not to offent you Angel but you should forget it aswell and stop trying to find any reason to invert this kind of weapon. Beside of that GRAW is not BF2!