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GRAW net code, lag and reliability

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Roco, it says minimum. as in a co-op game. i'm sure full game meant the opposite of demo. sorry...

Incorrect... as we have hosted up to 28 on 768 up... no lag.

no lag? no warping, you mean? cyz every other aspect of lag is there. you're right i played in your server. and you should be hosting 16, that's when i like to play. server runs smooth. i can run and shoot through scope at a great framerate in your server up untill it gets up to about 24 people on the AFZ server, Roco. after that, especially if we're doing Wearhouses, zomes like Charlie feel like a disco club. strobe lights on, we're all robots now. i don't enjoy that kind of "no lag" at all. don't know if you played in other servers, but i noticed that a decently running server with 11 people can start reporting 999 ping and lag terribly when a 12th joins with an overseas ping. it's still playable, just barely...

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Roco, it says minimum. as in a co-op game. i'm sure full game meant the opposite of demo. sorry...

Incorrect... as we have hosted up to 28 on 768 up... no lag.

no lag? no warping, you mean? cyz every other aspect of lag is there. you're right i played in your server. and you should be hosting 16, that's when i like to play. server runs smooth. i can run and shoot through scope at a great framerate in your server up untill it gets up to about 24 people on the AFZ server, Roco. after that, especially if we're doing Wearhouses, zomes like Charlie feel like a disco club. strobe lights on, we're all robots now. i don't enjoy that kind of "no lag" at all. don't know if you played in other servers, but i noticed that a decently running server with 11 people can start reporting 999 ping and lag terribly when a 12th joins with an overseas ping. it's still playable, just barely...

I've played in many... Warehouses physics has been reduced but I haven't seen any that do MULTIPLE rounds in warehouses not have Physics lag.

That is the key ... MULTIPLE which most servers no longer run because of below...

1st round warehouse... everything is great.

2nd little slowness to nades in the middle now and then

3rd... matrix style in the center.

Any other map ... no issue.

And that is on all the servers i have played in. Also btw... no one has a 999 ping on ours even up to 28... unless our stats program hangs it up... that happened that one night and everyone got the 999 LOL till i closed it out.

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I'm not sure what is supposed to need so much explaining. I havent run a server so I dont know exactly what the option looks like, but it seems to me that if you tell the server to give 128kbps to each of 10 players then you better have at least 1280kbps to give.... no? :huh:

That's just it, we don't know for sure either way what exactly 10 players would need on the server side upload.

10 players may only consume 128kbs of total bandwidth or it may be 1028kbs?

Oh, I can answer that. If you have 10 players on your server, and limit the total upload to 128kbps, then you can only possibly transmit an average of 12.8 thousand bits to any given player during any given second. Obviously that would never work, otherwise a 56k modem would be like gamers paradise (or see my math post if you want better explanation).

I think its all relatively clear. You 'have' to have an upload equal to the number of players playing times the maximum amount you can transfer to them. There is a setting that will cap that amount. It does that by omitting 'irrelevant' details in the game. However just the basics will take up to 128kbps per player at some times. (do note that as someone mentioned above it is actually exponential because as you add more people you have to transmit more data to each of the more people, so if there are only 4 people on a server and you set it for 128 you will probably never actually reach 128).

Now there is some built in lag that simply cannot be eliminated because of the length of the wires, the routers in between, the network cards, but obviously the more data you can transfer to each client the better. However, you 'only' need to have 128kpbs per player in order for everyone to be able to enjoy gaming at the maximum speeds the various hardware involved can allow (players also seem to need to have at least 128 up if you look in the bottom of the server browser).

Its late, I hope I'm making sense here, getting kind of jumbled :wall::wall::wacko:

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I've played in many... Warehouses physics has been reduced but I haven't seen any that do MULTIPLE rounds in warehouses not have Physics lag.

That is the key ... MULTIPLE which most servers no longer run because of below...

1st round warehouse... everything is great.

2nd little slowness to nades in the middle now and then

3rd... matrix style in the center.

Any other map ... no issue.

And that is on all the servers i have played in. Also btw... no one has a 999 ping on ours even up to 28... unless our stats program hangs it up... that happened that one night and everyone got the 999 LOL till i closed it out.

huh, weird. i didn't know that. since decals disappear with time, the only thing i can think of are a couple of tractor trailers to flip and some barrels/canisters to set on fire. what else could make it to the next round? oh well, good night.

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I've played in many... Warehouses physics has been reduced but I haven't seen any that do MULTIPLE rounds in warehouses not have Physics lag.

That is the key ... MULTIPLE which most servers no longer run because of below...

1st round warehouse... everything is great.

2nd little slowness to nades in the middle now and then

3rd... matrix style in the center.

Any other map ... no issue.

And that is on all the servers i have played in. Also btw... no one has a 999 ping on ours even up to 28... unless our stats program hangs it up... that happened that one night and everyone got the 999 LOL till i closed it out.

huh, weird. i didn't know that. since decals disappear with time, the only thing i can think of are a couple of tractor trailers to flip and some barrels/canisters to set on fire. what else could make it to the next round? oh well, good night.

Not sure ... but take note of it... especially in warehouses. The only thing i can think of is the canisters that originally had physics but are blown up. Grin reduced the physics in it with each patch though... so i think it is related some how.

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that's not the lag we're talking about. that's latency, which could be caused by anything from your personal high ping, to the hosting machine's hardware limitations. could you link to JJ's post?

Technologies progresses hand in hand. Faster connections make possible more amounts of data being synced over networks. That is why you could play a game on a 28 kbps modem back in the days. It has nothing to do with programmers forgetting about the noble art of net coding.

There is a setting for connection speed in GRAW, and when someone sets up a server it should be used properly for optimal gaming performance. The game will then adjust the amount of data being sent between server and clients. Take note that a server hosting 32 players must in fact have 32x the bandwith chosen in the game interface.

np mate its the 2nd post here btw :whistle:

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ROCOAFZ,

Did you monitor the resource usage on the server on the initial round and following rounds and then on subsequent maps? Particularly memory usage and pagefile usage. Perhaps its spiking and maybe Warehouse has somethink like a memory leak that is adverely affecting the server on subsequent rounds.

Edited by FI_FlimFlam

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ROCOAFZ,

Did you monitor the resource usage on the server on the initial round and following rounds and then on subsequent maps? Particularly memory usage and pagefile usage. Perhaps its spiking and maybe Warehouse has somethink like a memory leak that is adverely affecting the server on subsequent rounds.

Haven't paid much attention to it, as I'm usually playing LOL, but... Processor wise... GRAW tac's out the 1st processor just like when your playing. (even on idle)

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I've played in many... Warehouses physics has been reduced but I haven't seen any that do MULTIPLE rounds in warehouses not have Physics lag.

That is the key ... MULTIPLE which most servers no longer run because of below...

1st round warehouse... everything is great.

2nd little slowness to nades in the middle now and then

3rd... matrix style in the center.

Any other map ... no issue.

And that is on all the servers i have played in. Also btw... no one has a 999 ping on ours even up to 28... unless our stats program hangs it up... that happened that one night and everyone got the 999 LOL till i closed it out.

huh, weird. i didn't know that. since decals disappear with time, the only thing i can think of are a couple of tractor trailers to flip and some barrels/canisters to set on fire. what else could make it to the next round? oh well, good night.

Not sure ... but take note of it... especially in warehouses. The only thing i can think of is the canisters that originally had physics but are blown up. Grin reduced the physics in it with each patch though... so i think it is related some how.

allright, i played like 9 Wearhouses maps yesterday on the GS server at 26 people. i have to report that each of the 3 rounds ran absolutely the same for me, as far as framerate. their OC3 connection's got plenty of juice left in it, i guess...

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Doesn't for me normally but I just found something that may cause it. The 2003 server defaulted to optimize for background services and system cache. I changed both to programs for optimization. People have reported that map cycling is quicker... i will be testing it tonight if there are more on. Betting it's still not a connection issue ;)

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Still hoping that someone from GRIN will weigh-in on this and give us a clear answer.

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JesseJames already did, no? you want them to do the simple math for you too?

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JesseJames already did, no? you want them to do the simple math for you too?

Yes... BUT it was not clear, as it has been stated by others and myself many times.

Edited by ToW-Angel

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All i know is that me and my clan mates were on a UBI dedi server last nite and it was happening alot. There were only 4 to 6 players total on the server and we were seeing this issue.

You know....guys running across your view and killing you while they are running..in their view they are stopped and took aim but in yours they are still running and moving across your screen. What scares me is i could see this happening on a personal home computer hosting but it should not be happening on a dedicated server.

It literaly had ###### me off to the point where i had gotten alittle vulger and took it out on my clan when they tried explaning the guy was stopped ( Should not get mad but this is soo frustrating ) I knew he had stopped but in my view he was still running...how can you be depended upon to win a match with this going on.

I love the game but with this going on it has a tendancy to take some of the fun out of the game.

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All i know is that me and my clan mates were on a UBI dedi server last nite and it was happening alot. There were only 4 to 6 players total on the server and we were seeing this issue.

You know....guys running across your view and killing you while they are running..in their view they are stopped and took aim but in yours they are still running and moving across your screen. What scares me is i could see this happening on a personal home computer hosting but it should not be happening on a dedicated server.

It literaly had ###### me off to the point where i had gotten alittle vulger and took it out on my clan when they tried explaning the guy was stopped ( Should not get mad but this is soo frustrating ) I knew he had stopped but in my view he was still running...how can you be depended upon to win a match with this going on.

I love the game but with this going on it has a tendancy to take some of the fun out of the game.

I also have seen same and it does get frustrating, especially when the opponent does this from 60 yards out.

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I notice this as well, but only on some occasions. Mostly when the server has alot of players with really high pings. I was on a Ubi server lastnight for abit, I had a 44 ping, and the guys i was playing with were averaging under 100, then all of the sudden there was a flood of players jumping in and the game went to great top unplayable. I looked at the average ping of the players joining, and it was anywhere from 230 - 450.

I had to leave, because nothing is more frustrating then watching player warp 40 ft whle your shooting at them.

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Yeah, Normaly i write off this as lag, but the instances im mainly talking about are the ones that happen when there are only a few people on the server and pings are under 90. When it happens under these conditions something is wrong.

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... nothing is more frustrating then watching player warp 40 ft whle your shooting at them.

RGR THAT

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... nothing is more frustrating then watching player warp 40 ft whle your shooting at them.

RGR THAT

more frustrating than that for me is taking cover and getting shot anyway. it's like the bullets are heat seeking and can turn corners. it has to be a netcode problem i would think. it makes the "peeking game" a little hard.

if that doesn't make sense i don't know how better to explain it.

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... nothing is more frustrating then watching player warp 40 ft whle your shooting at them.

RGR THAT

more frustrating than that for me is taking cover and getting shot anyway. it's like the bullets are heat seeking and can turn corners. it has to be a netcode problem i would think. it makes the "peeking game" a little hard.

if that doesn't make sense i don't know how better to explain it.

That happened to me lasnight. I was playing and running across an open section in warehouse, when I started to get shot at, there was a wall just ahead of me, so I made for it to take cover. I slide as I get close, coming in for a perfect position where no one could shoot me unless they were in my back pocket, I stand up to take notes of how bad im hurt, whats my next move etc... then I die. I laughed, I thought it was funny. I cant blame this on the game though, as I had just over a 200 ping on this particular server, so im sure that helped out that problem.

but I do get what you mean Iggy.

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It is obvious that Grin knows what we think about this....

My first question is do they experience this on their personal computers too.

Now..if they know it exists, are they planning on working on this at a later time? ( After the next big patch! )

I would say this is my biggest issue...well..come to think of it....its my only issue with the game...mainly because it has been there from the beginning and i dought a dedicated server of our own will cure this. After they are done including stuff in the game.....if i could ask for only 1 thing to be fixed...it would be this issue....even if it only happens once or twice per round...its still enough to drive me crazy...lol

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The net code of GRAW is extremely well made. I just finished a game with a 140 ping and I went 17-3. I can't do that in any other game, at all. The lag would just be unbareable to play with (I'm used to <85 pings). Not only that, but networking-related lag doesn't affect hit detection AT ALL! GRAW is possibly the only game that I know of that allows that.

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Ill try and get a fraps vid of what i mean.. Its not the usual lag. Like i said before. What im talking about happens even if there are only 4 to 6 players on the server and they all have a ping less than 90. Ill see about catching it on fraps.

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This sounds like they are using client-side hit detection. Rogue spear was that way. It has its pros and cons. The benefit is you hit what you see on your screen, the con is the guy who was around the corner on his screen got shot.

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All games have lag despite how good or bad the game or net code is.

If you read this article about lag, which some of us suffer from the reasons will become clearer.

http://www.bigfootnetworks.com/PDFs/White_...n_Lag_final.pdf

Its a good read, I have played this game at 2 LAN parties with zero lag, in all modes.

Every online game I have ever played has online problems, this game is no different.

Other Software developers have also patched some games to use the HPT dual core by letting the CPU do some of the netcode work, ID software with Quake4 etc as an example. it can be done.

Anyway have a look and see what really causes problems.

I dont see too many problems with Ubisofts netcode for this game, doubless to say though it can be improved.

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