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GRAW net code, lag and reliability


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I've read that the net code and stability in GRAW is not too good. What's your experience playing GRAW so far as far as that goes?

About the net code, it's not just about the reports on the problems with GRAW. It's all gameing.

In the last five years our connectin speeds and reliability have grown a hundred fold or more. I started GR1, CS and Operatin Flashpoint on a 5kbs modem that automamtically disconected after 60 mins even if you were online playing (British Telecom). But while i was on even at 5kbs i could get decent games in. I could hold my own in CS and come out with top scores in a server of 20 often. GR1 was fine for me if i played fellow Brits or Europeans and even servers in the USA were ok on the East coast. There was occasional lag but generaly it was stable and i could shoot and hit reliably.

Now i have cable and can transfer 2 megs per second, thats 400 times faster my old modem set up. yet despite the speed and presumably advances in net code development in the last decade, game stability seems to have no improvement and in some cases it has gotten worse.

In Rome: Total War the online portion is handled by the dreaded 'GameSpy' rather than a propietary code written by the devs. Every single player online moans about it as it cuts off all the time, many days you can't get into games and if you host a game and gs cuts while you are in set up the game won't launch. And thats just net code handling 2 players soemtimes 4,6 and maximum 8.

How is it that so many games have such terrible net code when we have such faster connections?

And of course, please post your assesment of GRAW as far as net lag, reliabilit and stability goes. I have no opinion on this portion of GRAW as I havn't tried it but the reports of level headed types like Papa6 are worrying.

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Technologies progresses hand in hand. Faster connections make possible more amounts of data being synced over networks. That is why you could play a game on a 28 kbps modem back in the days. It has nothing to do with programmers forgetting about the noble art of net coding.

There is a setting for connection speed in GRAW, and when someone sets up a server it should be used properly for optimal gaming performance. The game will then adjust the amount of data being sent between server and clients. Take note that a server hosting 32 players must in fact have 32x the bandwith chosen in the game interface.

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JesseJames,

Can you explain a little more indepth?

For example: 8 Players would need what kind of bandwidth?

I guess what I'm asking is for 1 player to connect to the server requires what bandwidth?

I have an 8.8mb/768kbs connection. How many can I host on that connection speed?

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I admit that i dont know the technical details of net code.

From my simplistic point of view though i dont see what has changed between GR and GRAW or games five years ago or today. Dont you have a set number of players that have their positions tracked, aim of their guns and actions such as pessing fire or throwing nades.

I point a gun a an enemy on my screen and the character his computer draws of me points a gun at him, i press fire and the charcter model of me that his computer draws presses fire.

Un understand as mucht that mp games are really an illusion. We are all playing single player games but with insturctions being sent to each others computer about what the other player moddels in our computers should do.

But it still seems simple to me. Position of charachers, aim of their weapons, when they fire. All the other stuff is just taken care of by their own computers isn't it. I mean, if i am in a TDM and i dontmove from one spot then does net code even need to waste badwith by re affirming that i'm still in that spot. Should just have the instructions that unless it gets more instructions the character shuld be still. then when i move it sends a messege to tell the character thatrepresents me to move.

I just dont really understand what has changed since [GR] days.

I laymens explaination would be great dude.

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I admit that i dont know the technical details of net code.

From my simplistic point of view though i dont see what has changed between GR and GRAW or games five years ago or today. Dont you have a set number of players that have their positions tracked, aim of their guns and actions such as pessing fire or throwing nades.

I point a gun a an enemy on my screen and the character his computer draws of me points a gun at him, i press fire and the charcter model of me that his computer draws presses fire.

Un understand as mucht that mp games are really an illusion. We are all playing single player games but with insturctions being sent to each others computer about what the other player moddels in our computers should do.

But it still seems simple to me. Position of charachers, aim of their weapons, when they fire. All the other stuff is just taken care of by their own computers isn't it. I mean, if i am in a TDM and i dontmove from one spot then does net code even need to waste badwith by re affirming that i'm still in that spot. Should just have the instructions that unless it gets more instructions the character shuld be still. then when i move it sends a messege to tell the character thatrepresents me to move.

I just dont really understand what has changed since [GR] days.

I laymens explaination would be great dude.

The amount of data sent and recieved is greater because of the dynamics of the game and how it has to update your position in relation to what the server believes and in relation to the other players in the server, AI positioning/movement and what you (the client) side sees.

It's not like old games at all in this respect, because the models are much more indepth and sophisticated. The maps are also a lot larger than in the beginning also... Look at the first Doom... Maps were actually really small and AI moved in predicted manners. With the pipe (internet connection) being greater, more player/AI positioning can be kept up to date more frequently to give a more accurate picture of what is actually happening on your screen.

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JesseJames,

Can you explain a little more indepth?

For example: 8 Players would need what kind of bandwidth?

I guess what I'm asking is for 1 player to connect to the server requires what bandwidth?

I have an 8.8mb/768kbs connection. How many can I host on that connection speed?

:stupid: Yes please explain

So if I'm on a 24/1 DSL connection i shouldn't choose the 1mbit DSL when hosting a 4 player co-op game? Thats for connecting only? I should choose like a 256kbs connection instead and then when 8 player is possible in coop i should choose 128kbs when hosting? :please:

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There is a setting for connection speed in GRAW, and when someone sets up a server it should be used properly for optimal gaming performance. The game will then adjust the amount of data being sent between server and clients. Take note that a server hosting 32 players must in fact have 32x the bandwith chosen in the game interface.

Please explain this... That would mean for 32 players the minimum upload you could have would be 32x128 = 4096??? aka 4mb up? or is that just a download rating?

This part is not explained anywhere and Server admins really need to know.

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Technologies progresses hand in hand. Faster connections make possible more amounts of data being synced over networks. That is why you could play a game on a 28 kbps modem back in the days. It has nothing to do with programmers forgetting about the noble art of net coding.

There is a setting for connection speed in GRAW, and when someone sets up a server it should be used properly for optimal gaming performance. The game will then adjust the amount of data being sent between server and clients. Take note that a server hosting 32 players must in fact have 32x the bandwith chosen in the game interface.

Please, as the others have asked, explain this in a little more detail. I have a DSL 1.5mb/384k connection. Since I get only about 284k upload most of the time, I have set the ingame option to 256k. But you say for me to host a coop game, I would need 256x4 or 1024k? Even if I set the option to 128k (the lowest setting) I could not achieve this speed. If this is the case, then we are truly in trouble. It would prevent MANY gamers with DSL connections from hosting. The 3 guys that have played GR1 coop with me for years could not host. Almost everyone I know well doesn't have that kind of speed. It would seem that you need to include that in the game requirements on the outside of the box. If this is indeedwhat is needed, then I would have never bought the game.

Please provide a little more detail on this.

Thank you

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Technologies progresses hand in hand. Faster connections make possible more amounts of data being synced over networks. That is why you could play a game on a 28 kbps modem back in the days. It has nothing to do with programmers forgetting about the noble art of net coding.

There is a setting for connection speed in GRAW, and when someone sets up a server it should be used properly for optimal gaming performance. The game will then adjust the amount of data being sent between server and clients. Take note that a server hosting 32 players must in fact have 32x the bandwith chosen in the game interface.

Please, as the others have asked, explain this in a little more detail. I have a DSL 1.5mb/384k connection. Since I get only about 284k upload most of the time, I have set the ingame option to 256k. But you say for me to host a coop game, I would need 256x4 or 1024k? Even if I set the option to 128k (the lowest setting) I could not achieve this speed. If this is the case, then we are truly in trouble. It would prevent MANY gamers with DSL connections from hosting. The 3 guys that have played GR1 coop with me for years could not host. Almost everyone I know well doesn't have that kind of speed. It would seem that you need to include that in the game requirements on the outside of the box. If this is indeedwhat is needed, then I would have never bought the game.

Please provide a little more detail on this.

Thank you

yes please explain :blink:

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No need to yell Rasta, lets keep this on topic. Some of us would like a civil and informative conversation on server related topics. Rants and flames are useless to us.

Thanks.

didn't yell at all! i'm just excited about the topic! very important topic for graw in my

eyes!!!

so grin please bring some light into the darkness of my blackscreens and let me grin with pleasure again!!

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No need to yell Rasta, lets keep this on topic. Some of us would like a civil and informative conversation on server related topics. Rants and flames are useless to us.

Thanks.

didn't yell at all! i'm just excited about the topic! very important topic for graw in my

eyes!!!

so grin please bring some light into the darkness of my blackscreens and let me grin with pleasure again!!

I hear ya brother, and thanks for the excitement. And I agree it is an important topic.

It's just as a server admin, I hate going thru a million useless whining and crying posts just to find the information I am looking for, and I think gr.net would be a valuable reference asset for all us server geeks. :blink:

Afterall we want you to have a good time on our servers :thumbsup:

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There is a setting for connection speed in GRAW, and when someone sets up a server it should be used properly for optimal gaming performance. The game will then adjust the amount of data being sent between server and clients. Take note that a server hosting 32 players must in fact have 32x the bandwith chosen in the game interface.

Please explain this... That would mean for 32 players the minimum upload you could have would be 32x128 = 4096??? aka 4mb up? or is that just a download rating?

This part is not explained anywhere and Server admins really need to know.

Agreed, a clarification is highly needed so the server admins can optimize their settings :thumbsup:

There seem to be a lot of server optimizing that can be done that enhances performance and reliability for all clients. It would surely help a lot if GRIN could elaborate on this...and perhaps that will be done with an upcoming patch with server tools? Hopeful... ;)

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There is a setting for connection speed in GRAW, and when someone sets up a server it should be used properly for optimal gaming performance. The game will then adjust the amount of data being sent between server and clients. Take note that a server hosting 32 players must in fact have 32x the bandwith chosen in the game interface.

Wow. I would have thought this sort of factoid would have been included in the documentation that came with the game. Can we get some real clarification from the Grin folks on exactly what this setting does and how it should be configured in specific situations.

I know that we (at Alpha Squad) have seen all sorts of annoying and sometimes game stopping problems that I think can be associated with network issues while trying to play co-op. Typically we have trouble with excessive traffic out of the server while a player or players are enjoying the black screen. There is the occasional "player seems to be running all the time" effect that I have presumed is a lost packet and failure to resynchronize problem. Then there is the fact that the TL usually seems to be running whenever they are looking at the tactical map -- is that another confusing packet from the server?

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Oddly enough though with a 768 upload connection we are hosting 20-28 in domination when set to 128. What would a host want to set it to anything else also is my question? and what are we missing without that setting upped to the next level?

Final issue... no one can run home connections... or at least VERY few with 4mb upload capability. Heck most game providers will cap you in a month ... and if your sending 4mb plus that is a major issue.

We need Grin to step up and tell us what this setting really is for.

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Tow Angel,

i understand that games have more sophistication in them these days but comapring GRAW to GR1 i can't imagine it's that much. As far as TDM goes there is no ai. In a typical open GR1 server there were maybe 15 or 20 players. Each player has a spot on that map, as does the GRAW player. Each has a posture, GRAW has more but not hundreds more. GR1 players could shoot bullets, nades, hand grenades etc so can GRAW. GR1 had opening and closing doors, GRAW doesnt ;)

GRAW may have two or three times more postures than GR1 and a few other things but my connection is now 400 times faster (download rate anyway) than when i played GR1 so surely that should more than cover any extra data that neesd to be sent over the GR1 days.

A good read up on this stuff is what we need.

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Tow Angel,

i understand that games have more sophistication in them these days but comapring GRAW to GR1 i can't imagine it's that much. As far as TDM goes there is no ai. In a typical open GR1 server there were maybe 15 or 20 players. Each player has a spot on that map, as does the GRAW player. Each has a posture, GRAW has more but not hundreds more. GR1 players could shoot bullets, nades, hand grenades etc so can GRAW. GR1 had opening and closing doors, GRAW doesnt ;)

GRAW may have two or three times more postures than GR1 and a few other things but my connection is now 400 times faster (download rate anyway) than when i played GR1 so surely that should more than cover any extra data that neesd to be sent over the GR1 days.

A good read up on this stuff is what we need.

It's not about the positioning of a model so much as it is keeping track in a much higher detail environment, plus keeping track much more often than older games for more accurate player location.

Edited by ToW-Angel
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There is a setting for connection speed in GRAW, and when someone sets up a server it should be used properly for optimal gaming performance. The game will then adjust the amount of data being sent between server and clients.

That's a very intruiging piece of information! I too would be very interested to know exactly what data is shaved off the transfer on lower speeds.

Reading the above I'd think most server admins would probably specify their server connection as low as possible to minimise the traffic and increase smooth performance.

Please expand :yes:

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