Jump to content
Ghost Recon.net Forums

I LOVE THE EDGE SMOOTHING/AA


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 56
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

GRIN has just added Blur it is by no means ANY form of Anti-Aliasing

You fail to read anything huh?

"Today's hardware cannot do deferred lighting and AA at the same time."- GRIN

Nah I dont read at all.....

http://www.ghostrecon.net/forums/index.php...c=34190&hl=

:thumbsup:

-----------------------------------------------------------

my screenshots

graw20060621190428543ud.th.jpg

graw20060621190342251gy.th.jpg

Edited by jonelo
Link to post
Share on other sites

i'm waiting for the hardware that will be able to do deferred lighting and AA.

Word.

Or, in a couple months, prices on current hardware will drop enough and we'll be able to run higher resolutions without bleeding-edge investment.

On the other hand, DX10-related news is around the corner...the new hardware for this new software technology could be just the ticket to run deferred lighting and AA together.

Personally, I like the new comparison picks. Thanks for posting them. They give me hope! :g_withgrin:

Link to post
Share on other sites

The option should have been called, "Edge smoothing" with the options being on or off. It's disingenuous in my opinion to frame this in-game option as "Anti Aliasing".

Edited by Low Profile
Link to post
Share on other sites

The option should have been called, "Edge smoothing" with the options being on or off. It's disingenuous in my opinion to frame this in-game option as "Anti Aliasing".

Sorry to take this thread OT, but where have you been hiding LP?

Now back to our regularly scheduled topic. ;)

Link to post
Share on other sites

The option should have been called, "Edge smoothing" with the options being on or off. It's disingenuous in my opinion to frame this in-game option as "Anti Aliasing".

Sorry to take this thread OT, but where have you been hiding LP?

Now back to our regularly scheduled topic. ;)

I've been waiting in the wings for the next Ghost Recon. :-P Good to see you WhiteKnight77.

*Now back to our regularly scheduled program.*

Link to post
Share on other sites

Oblivion is not real HDR. HDR is what HL2 does. Oblivion just turns up the bloom meter by 500%.

Sorry Smith Oblivion IS using real SM3.0 MTR FP16 HDR, HL2 is using SM2.0 HDR its the simple one not Oblivion.(tho I think it is actually better executed than GRAW's)

But Ted is right this has NOTHING to with HDR I would dig up my huge research piece on it but Im too lazy to explain it all again.....

I could care less about the technical bull**** if the lightning system isn't what it's suppose to be,

DYNAMIC RANGE.

Compare.

That's where you are wrong. In Oblivion you can have the choice of using Bloom or HDR. Anyways my point was you can either use one or the other (HDR or AA). In this case, Ghost Recon. I don't see how it's not possible to have true AA when Deferred lighting is disabled.

Edited by sx_amazing
Link to post
Share on other sites

Pardon, but already I have put it several times.

http://download.nvidia.com/developer/prese...red_Shading.pdf

6800 series :rolleyes: launch

Anti-Aliasing with Deferred Shading

*Deferred shading is incompatible with MSAA

Other AA options?

*Supersampling lighting is a costly option

Lighting is typically the bottleneck, pixel shader bound

4x supersampled lighting would be a big perf.

*“Intelligent Blurâ€

Full-screen shader, but cheaper than SSAA

True AA- SSAA- is possible with Deferred rendering, in hard present . For example, is system of AOE 3, I believe that it can be possible.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see how it's not possible to have true AA when Deferred lighting is disabled.

If you could actually disable deferred lighting, then yes you probably could have real AA. That has also been spoken of countless times in the past and it was also stated very clearly that the deferred lighting is too deeply ingrained into the engine. Removing it would be a massive undertaking and is far beyond the scope of any patch.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The blur shader was the only realistic option in the short time they had. Not only it works on almost all video cards, and the performance hit is rather small. If Grin had decided to add Supersampling AA, it would have worked only on Nvidia cards since SSAA is a hardware feature, but at the same time it costs A LOT of performance (and vram IIRC). I´m talking about a performance hit from 40fps to 10fps or even worse, depending how many edges are present. It surely would have looked nice since SSAA is the best kind of AA when it comes to Image Quality.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Oblivion is not real HDR. HDR is what HL2 does. Oblivion just turns up the bloom meter by 500%.

Sorry Smith Oblivion IS using real SM3.0 MTR FP16 HDR, HL2 is using SM2.0 HDR its the simple one not Oblivion.(tho I think it is actually better executed than GRAW's)

But Ted is right this has NOTHING to with HDR I would dig up my huge research piece on it but Im too lazy to explain it all again.....

I could care less about the technical bull**** if the lightning system isn't what it's suppose to be,

DYNAMIC RANGE.

Compare.

That's where you are wrong. In Oblivion you can have the choice of using Bloom or HDR. Anyways my point was you can either use one or the other (HDR or AA). In this case, Ghost Recon. I don't see how it's not possible to have true AA when Deferred lighting is disabled.

No thats where you are wrong mate oblivian plays hdr and aa at the same time on ati x100 cards and above if you enable the aa in your graphics card settings .

ATI brought out a driver so that this was possible .

If you want to check it out put a search in google for ati chuck patch.

The reason ati can do this is they have 48 pipe lines compaired to nvidea chipsets which have only 24 pipe lines .

Link to post
Share on other sites

The reason ati can do this is they have 48 pipe lines compaired to nvidea chipsets which have only 24 pipe lines .

They are 48 motors of shaders, not pipelines. And the HDR+AA whit FP16 is possible by rops orthogonal of the 1XXX

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't care what peoples views are, I personally think it looks amazing.

In the distance it kinda blurs some in how it smooths edges, but sheesh it makes a HUGE difference with no performance hit for me.

Though it DOES smooth the edges, and makes some things eaiser to see.

I cannot agree.

The way they did it, it blurs all the textures as well - so why should I be running High textures now, if the "AA" is bluring them back down to the quality of medium textures? (which still look BA, mind you)

However, nobody said I was forced to use this improvised version of AA, so I'll just keep :g_guns: without the AA and hope that we can eventually force true AA into the game.

(Note to the DEV (Not that I think they will read it))

I would keep the improvised AA for people with lesser systems - for it does improve the ability to see things, but (as mentioned) it nerfs the texture quality alittle. However, for those who cannot run the "True" AA, for lack of system power, this improvised AA I can see being a BIG hit. Good work with it - just not what I (as a very avid "spend lots of money on my pc" gamer) want.

Link to post
Share on other sites

No thats where you are wrong mate oblivian plays hdr and aa at the same time on ati x100 cards and above if you enable the aa in your graphics card settings .

Pretty sure it's different kind of HDR. There are several.

Link to post
Share on other sites

At this point I think HDR is starting to become a more generic term rather than describing the specific process.

HDR describes High Dynamic Range. There are multiple subforms of it, some of which (? maybe just one) don't allow practical usage of AA.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

the edge smoothening just looks like a blur filter straight from photoshop

and ATI can do HDR and AA at the same time, Nvidia currently can not. the problem here is not the HDR its the differed lighting.

and in oblivion yes it is possible to do HDR and AA at the same time with ATI hardware.

HL2 HDR is not true HDR although they did a pretty good job, its looks great imo.

they really needed to ad the option to allow real AA with no differed lighting.

aand technicaly grin/ubi CAN call it Anti aliasing, because aliasing is just jagged edges and well this blur method is trying to smoothen it - hence anti. although i agree its a very poor effort.

Link to post
Share on other sites

and in oblivion yes it is possible to do HDR and AA at the same time with ATI hardware.

HL2 HDR is not true HDR although they did a pretty good job, its looks great imo.

they really needed to ad the option to allow real AA with no differed lighting.

aand technicaly grin/ubi CAN call it Anti aliasing, because aliasing is just jagged edges and well this blur method is trying to smoothen it - hence anti. although i agree its a very poor effort.

Can i say a few things as a new member of this forum who has reasearched this topic extensivley?

1) HIGH DINAMIC RANGE HAS NO EFFECT ON ANTI-ALIASING! You can use ANY kind of HDR, whether it's on Shader Model 2.0 (Like in HL2) OR if it's Shader Model 3.0. Get it through your skulls that it's DEFFERED LIGHTING causing the problem!

2) Please, Can I ask a favor? PLEASE stop reffering to "Oblivion" in every freaking sentece you people write! I've had enough of this on the Tom's Hardware forums! PLEASE! A comparison to HL2 or other games is much more reasonable.

3)To something that whc said in the quote above: HL2 HDR IS true High Dynamic Range! Where did you guys get the idea that it wasn't?

4)Anothing thing whc said: Grin can call this "Photoshop Blur Effect" or "Edge Smoothing" Anti-aliasing just like whc said... he's completley right. Anti-Aliasing just means anti-jagged... if you want to call it that. Anything that lessens jagged lines / edges can be called Anti-Aliasing.

I would love to try out this edge smoothing, but for some reason in my version of the game (v1.06) i cannot find this setting anywhere. Strange, eh?

I don't know what the hell Deffered Lighting does, but i don't like it. What is so different about GRAW with the lighting? It looks like they took average, mediocre textures and slapped so many post-render effects (Like HDR) so you don't "notice them" and in turn, many of us get framerates in the 20s with a recently new card.

Battlefield 2, FEAR, Far Cry and Doom 3 all used some form of dynamic lighing and shadows, what's so great about this horribly resouce taxing "Deffered Lighting" crap?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would love to try out this edge smoothing, but for some reason in my version of the game (v1.06) i cannot find this setting anywhere. Strange, eh?

It was added in 1.16

I don't know what the hell Deffered Lighting does, but i don't like it. What is so different about GRAW with the lighting? It looks like they took average, mediocre textures and slapped so many post-render effects (Like HDR) so you don't "notice them" and in turn, many of us get framerates in the 20s with a recently new card.

No arguments there

Battlefield 2, FEAR, Far Cry and Doom 3 all used some form of dynamic lighing and shadows, what's so great about this horribly resouce taxing "Deffered Lighting" crap?

Again agreed

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, Instg8r. I'm glad that you agree! I'm sorry if I came across as a bit rude in that post, but I was a bit upset. I'm upset that the new games Ubi have been pumping out (GRAW, Rainbow Six Lockdown) only perform well on high-end PCs (I mean HIGH end) and don't look good at all! I'm extremely dissapointed with RS:Lockdown especially. Looks like i'll be playing Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield for a while!

Can anyone here post a link to what "Deffered lighting" is? all I see in GRAW is a uniformly-lit level, with some glow effects. Every once in a while, the colour or "mood" will change becase of the post-render effects. On the Tom's Hardware forums, one person posted a link to a page discussing deffered lighting but it was at the greek level of simplicity (Not easy to understand, if you know what i mean). You will rarely hear me say something related to computers sounds greek! I've got an open mind, you really have to make something confusing for me not to understand it.

I think the main problem is, Deffered Lighting would be good on a game like FEAR or SWAT 4 with smaller levels. But, on a large-scale like GRAW, it impacts performance horribly! Not to mention, you never even notice it! On a side note the "dynamic shadows" are very light and hard to see, and are horribly pixelated like BF2s. Dissapointing.

P.S. On 3D Gamers and Gamershell.com I only see the v1.20 and v1.06 updates for GRAW. They must of taken down the v1.16 updates -- i'll download the .20 one.

-Cheers!

Edited by Cody-7
Link to post
Share on other sites

first you ask for a link with info on what defered lighting/rendering is and then you state that it would be good for a game with smaller levels and that you cant ever notice it? how do you know that its good for a game with smaller levels if you dont know what it is? well let me enlighten you! :grin1:

http://www.beyond3d.com/articles/deflight/

I think this would be a good starting point before further discussing the pros and cons of deferred rendering. :grin1::santa:

Link to post
Share on other sites

first you ask for a link with info on what defered lighting/rendering is and then you state that it would be good for a game with smaller levels and that you cant ever notice it? how do you know that its good for a game with smaller levels if you dont know what it is? well let me enlighten you! :grin1:

http://www.beyond3d.com/articles/deflight/

I think this would be a good starting point before further discussing the pros and cons of deferred rendering. :grin1::santa:

Okay, well that's the article I was talking about feeling "greek" to me... Like I said, i don't often say that.

Let's see...

Deferred Rendering attempts to combine conventional rendering techniques with the advantages of image space techniques

I belive i'm fimilliar with "conventional" techniques, but what the hell are "Image space techniques"?

The main disadvantages are:

* Multiple light equations difficult

* High hardware specifications

Okay, that doesn't sound good. So if a scene (Or in game terms, a level) have multiple lights, it's hard to do? Rarley anywhere in life is something lit with just one light. And "high hardware specifications" ? That artilce is a bit too vague I think.

So, from what I can tell -- it makes things like shadow maps "cheap", (easier and faster to render i'm guessing) yet it introduces new hardware-taxing techniques. Just great. Ubi / Grin chose an engine which makes already easy-to-do thing easier, and gives you a handful of "things" that bring even an X1900XTX to it's knees! Nice!

I think we need a better article defining deffered lighting. That one is just way too complex and vague... What I said above was just about as much meaning I could pull out of it :o

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...