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unwritt3n

My opinion on scopes

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First off...

I have never look down a scope of a rifle, nor have i even handled one in RL. So wat i am about to talk about could just be stupid.

Here is wat i think it should look like it GRAW:

unwritt3n_scope_zoom.JPG

I dont use photoshop at all so be nice :D

As u can see i blurred the background coz i believe if u are lookin down a scope, wouldnt all ur focus be on that, and everything around u be blurred. Just like if u put ur thumb out, and aimed at it, everything around it is blurred.

Also i didnt know how to add it in with photoshop, but shouldnt inside the scope be zoomed in. Like its the same zoom level as outside the scope in the screenie.. get wat i mean??

NOTE: All the HUD and map and stuff shouldnt be blurred, just got carried away in Photoshop :P

ORIGINAL:

unwritt3n_scope.JPG

What do you guys think?

EDIT: FIXED SCREENIE LINKS

Edited by unwritt3n

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One small tiny little problem. Thats not a scope. Thats an aimpoint. Aimpoints don't blur anything. Although in graw, the aimpoint is basicly a stand in for the ACOG (mini-scope).

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oh ok.. but still u would be focusing on that, and everything outside the aimpoint (not lookin at) would blur?

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The sights that the standard weapons utilize are red-dot(Aimpoint Comp) or holographic(Eotech 552) sights. None of them zoom, only scopes zoom. They are designed to be sighted with both eyes open, allowing one to maintain their peripheral vision, increasing situational awareness as well as provide a quick point of reference for snap-shooting and low-light conditions. Also, the dot isn't centered in the glass like you usually see. It actually floats around alot, depending on the angle in which you're viewing. The neat part about that is that if your sight has been zero'ed, then anywhere the dot is pointed, it will hit, regardless of whether it's centered.

Aside from that, yes you would experience some tunnel vision if you concentrated on just the dot or your target behind it. I don't see any need to simulate that in the game though, as you do have a set of eyes which are already focusing on specific parts of the screen and therefore blurring or distorting everything around it.

They did the same blurring effect on the game 'Black' during reloading sequences, which was thought to increase realism. It annoyed the heck out of me, though, because even the most basic military weapons training/qualification emphasizes focusing on your target, not your gun. staring at your gun during reloading = not in the fight, gives your enemy freedom of movement.

Edited by moakes2783

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Ok,

Thanks for clearing that up. I had no clue about any of that.

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I agree with the realism aspect as stated by Moak and Degamer... But unwritt3n's screenshot with the blur effect is kinda perty.

I do like the way it draws your eye in to the sights.

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I do like the way it draws your eye in to the sights.

I don't. In fact, I don't like the way these scopes physically block out any of your field of vision. If I have an aimpoint up in front of me, I can see "through" the frame of the aimpoint because the frame only blocks any point in my field of vision for one of my eyes, and my brain reconciles the two images so that I can see everything, even if a "shadow" of the aimpoint is overlayed on a part of my FOV.

If they want realism, these scopes should appear on the screen, but only at maybe 33% opacity.

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I do like the way it draws your eye in to the sights.

I don't. In fact, I don't like the way these scopes physically block out any of your field of vision. If I have an aimpoint up in front of me, I can see "through" the frame of the aimpoint because the frame only blocks one of my eyes, and my brain reconciles the two images.

If they want realism, these scopes should appear on the screen, but only at maybe 33% opacity.

Exactly. :thumbsup:

The reality is that even with scopes at greater than 2X you use them with BOTH eyes open. Unless you are using magnifications that exceed 6X, you should always use them with both eyes open.

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I do like the way it draws your eye in to the sights.

I don't. In fact, I don't like the way these scopes physically block out any of your field of vision. If I have an aimpoint up in front of me, I can see "through" the frame of the aimpoint because the frame only blocks one of my eyes, and my brain reconciles the two images.

If they want realism, these scopes should appear on the screen, but only at maybe 33% opacity.

Exactly. :thumbsup:

The reality is that even with scopes at greater than 2X you use them with BOTH eyes open. Unless you are using magnifications that exceed 6X, you should always use them with both eyes open.

Whatever, I said I agreed with the realism points made, I just liked the aesthetic look of his screenshot. Jeez

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I think the new scope effect by unwritt3n looks really good- i wouldnt mind seeing that in the game, but i also agree that the scope as is, is correct due to using both eyes to view red dot.

But still a cool effect unwritt3n.

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Also, the dot isn't centered in the glass like you usually see. It actually floats around alot, depending on the angle in which you're viewing.f movement.

Another thing which I think is missing in GRAW when you are not in "scoped" mode, should the red dot still appear at your reticule? Seeing as Scott Mitchel is still aiming his gun infront... I would much rather see a red dot as a reticule then the classic GR reticule.

Also the run animation in GRAW makes him bring his gun down to his waist, and sway his gun left to right... then shouldn't the red-dot be visible on the ground and walls to the direction the gun is facing while he is running?

Get what i mean?

This would be understandable if you saw him actually switch the red-dot on/off while entering and exiting "scoped" mode.

Sorry for the bad explanation..

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I do like the way it draws your eye in to the sights.

I don't. In fact, I don't like the way these scopes physically block out any of your field of vision. If I have an aimpoint up in front of me, I can see "through" the frame of the aimpoint because the frame only blocks one of my eyes, and my brain reconciles the two images.

If they want realism, these scopes should appear on the screen, but only at maybe 33% opacity.

Exactly. :thumbsup:

The reality is that even with scopes at greater than 2X you use them with BOTH eyes open. Unless you are using magnifications that exceed 6X, you should always use them with both eyes open.

Whatever, I said I agreed with the realism points made, I just liked the aesthetic look of his screenshot. Jeez

Relax Dai San, just as you are expressing that you like the view, Logos was just expressing he did not. I don't see him flaming you anywhere in his post, so I don't think you need to take any offense to the remarks.

Hey, if you simply like the view presented, then I'm sure nobody here has a "problem" with that. These are all just opinions being presented in a discussion right?:thumbsup:

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Also the run animation in GRAW makes him bring his gun down to his waist, and sway his gun left to right... then shouldn't the red-dot be visible on the ground and walls to the direction the gun is facing while he is running?

Get what i mean?

I don't think the red dot is a laser-sight/laser beam, you know what I mean :)

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Also the run animation in GRAW makes him bring his gun down to his waist, and sway his gun left to right... then shouldn't the red-dot be visible on the ground and walls to the direction the gun is facing while he is running?

Get what i mean?

I don't think the red dot is a laser-sight/laser beam, you know what I mean :)

it uses a laser but the laser does not point outside of the lense. what you see is just a reflection of the laser being your pointer.

think of it as an electronic iron sight. iron sights don't point to your target it just gets your eyes in line of the path of the bullet. a red dot is just a quick reference for where your bullet will go. the accuracy of a redot will depend on your consistant head placement with relation to the reddot.

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Also the run animation in GRAW makes him bring his gun down to his waist, and sway his gun left to right... then shouldn't the red-dot be visible on the ground and walls to the direction the gun is facing while he is running?

Get what i mean?

I don't think the red dot is a laser-sight/laser beam, you know what I mean :)

He's right. The reticle is only visible to the shooter. It's not a laser sight.

If you guys want a good breakdown on the tech side of dot sights and holo sights, check out this link...

Understanding E-sights

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ahhh ok i understand now... im gettin confused with the laser-beam things you see mounted on like MP5s. Especially on SWAT teams at night and stuff.

Thanks again for clearing everything up guys... learn something new everyday

Edited by unwritt3n

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Never seen this site before. There is some good information on it. I'm just not sure I agree with this one statement regarding the downside of iron sights.

"Your aiming eye is focused on the front sight, not on the target, and the other eye is typically closed. This technique works very well, but it takes a lot of practice, it tends to fall apart under stress when it's needed most, and it limits your view of the surroundings."

I have always been taught to shoot with both eyes open regardless of what sight I am using. All the way up to 6X scopes. Beyond that it really is dependent upon the shooter's ability to utilize the field of view. To many the magnification at 6X or more can begin to become aa obstacle to effective shooting, so shooting with one eye closed can yield better results.

Either way, most of the info on the site is very useful and a good resource. Good link moakes. :thumbsup:

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If anyone remembers what the SIGHT or SCOPE looked like in GR1 , well that's like real life.

I have an AIMPOINT M2 with me now and looking down the gun through the SIGHT I see BLACK surround and the image in the sight and thats it !!!

IN THE FIRST THIS IS WHAT YOU THINK but THE SECOND ONE IS WHAT YOU SEE

image is for demo only, [this is not an aimpoint] ok

aimpoint3.jpg

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^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Thats a zoom-scope right? Or w/e its called.

Cuz thats how the sniper-scope looks like in GRAW. But you all know that.

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If anyone remembers what the SIGHT or SCOPE looked like in GR1 , well that's like real life.

I have an AIMPOINT M2 with me now and looking down the gun through the SIGHT I see BLACK surround and the image in the sight and thats it !!!

IN THE FIRST THIS IS WHAT YOU THINK but THE SECOND ONE IS WHAT YOU SEE

image is for demo only, [this is not an aimpoint] ok

aimpoint3.jpg

Actually the first picture is what you should be seeing if you are properly shooting with both eyes open. The seond pic is what you would see if you are shooting with one eye closed.

Keeping both eyes open is essential when shooting moving targets. I first experienced this when taking down deer in midstride. keeping both eyes open allows you to easily aquire the target with a broad field of view, then you can focus in with the optic to follow the target, and continue to see the surroundings that the target is in so that you do not lose it.

In combat keeping both eyes open also prevents you from focusing too much on just the target and losing perspective of events that are surrounding you.

Regardless of what you are shooting, when shooting live targets keeping both eyes open is absolutely necessary. The scope should never turn into a port you are looking through with black surroundings. A narrow field of vision like this can either result in missing dinner (in my case), or getting you killed in combat.

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If anyone remembers what the SIGHT or SCOPE looked like in GR1 , well that's like real life.

I have an AIMPOINT M2 with me now and looking down the gun through the SIGHT I see BLACK surround and the image in the sight and thats it !!!

IN THE FIRST THIS IS WHAT YOU THINK but THE SECOND ONE IS WHAT YOU SEE

image is for demo only, [this is not an aimpoint] ok

aimpoint3.jpg

Actually the first picture is what you should be seeing if you are properly shooting with both eyes open. The seond pic is what you would see if you are shooting with one eye closed.

Keeping both eyes open is essential when shooting moving targets. I first experienced this when taking down deer in midstride. keeping both eyes open allows you to easily acquire the target with a broad field of view, then you can focus in with the optic to follow the target, and continue to see the surroundings that the target is in so that you do not lose it.

In combat keeping both eyes open also prevents you from focusing too much on just the target and losing perspective of events that are surrounding you.

Regardless of what you are shooting, when shooting live targets keeping both eyes open is absolutely necessary. The scope should never turn into a port you are looking through with black surroundings. A narrow field of vision like this can either result in missing dinner (in my case), or getting you killed in combat.

Your absolutely right.. 100% but in reality 90% of the time the second eye only sees a

defused image one totally out of focus, and it's the eye it self that adapts dynamically when like you said, it sees a moving target.... This is not possible in the game as the image is an image.....

I suppose it's to your preference in the game... like you commented on in REAL LIFE there is so much more.. it's hard to capture the dynamics of what is seen second to second...

thx for your obs..jchung

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Red Dots and holo sights 101

Close one eye you see what you do in graw bassicly. Without the magnification thoe.

Both eyes open focus on target you see only the reticule... The weapon bassicly disapears.

No game has really got this right yet. I think a good GRAW mod will thoe

all in due time i guess.

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Red Dots and holo sights 101

Close one eye you see what you do in graw bassicly. Without the magnification thoe.

Both eyes open focus on target you see only the reticule... The weapon bassicly disapears.

No game has really got this right yet. I think a good GRAW mod will thoe

all in due time i guess.

just a comment....

Also depends where the Aimpoint is mounted, on my MP5 it's towards the rear [iron site off]

the eye sits closer to the aimpoint and the aim is far superior than an aimpoint half way to Canada !!.

So the image in GRAW is for example the M8, and shows the red dot, half way down the gun... but still LIKE YOU SAID your brain blanks out all the other crap and you see basically the image via aimpoint.....

I liked the sight to be in semi see through.... alpha value 60%

viii

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^ 60 would work... personally i would like it more at 80 myself.

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Would'nt you have to re adjust normal tele sights to be zero'd in for both eyes open to work properly ?

Yep i sure hope someone mods the sight view to allow the surrounding area to be slightly out of focus when zoomed in.

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