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Colin

Official StarForce Feed Back Thread

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Me neither, in all fairness i have used it a long time and never like millions of other people had problems, with the game or the AP software.

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Ditto. Just brought LD this afternoon and everything installed, runs and works properly even with Starforce installed.

the words Molehill and mountain come to mind.

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Here's a fun one.

The company that made Galactic Civilizations II: Dread Lords released their game with the ability to install on as many computers as the user wanted, as long as only one install was in use at any given time.

Starforce then released to the public a list of bittorrent sources to download a warez copy of said game.

Yes, Starforce deliberately gave the public information on how to easily pirate a game, with no clear intent, other than to demonstrate that the lack of copy protection (assuming their copy protection) would damage a game maker.

Can anyone say racketeering?

The story is here.

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I also want to clear something up for my point of view also.

While I hate Starfarce, I too, wish to be fair.

All the problems that I had experience with, and helping other users with, were on older hardware. Namely stadnard CD-ROM drives.

I havne't, except for this screenshot and post that I wqquoted from Ubi.com, seemn a problem yet on newere drives, except for reports.

But the problems I had experience with were bad ones, and did indeed on a few number of drives, fubar the firmware.

Currently, the biggest problem that I have heard of to date is multiple cases of the one like quoted above, I have heard of 7 so far, and the biggest issue is that the Starfarce driver would not let the drive tray eject without a reboot, and even if you opened it manually with a paper clip, and cosed it again, it would still not open without a reboot.

On the older drives I used to help with, it destroyed firmware, as well as kept the tray from opening without a reboot, and on some of those older drives, there was no paper clip hole, the drive had to be ripped apart to save the disc.

I don't like Starfarce. I don't agree with it, and I especially don't like the lack of info and support tht I have seen from the company.

But I do wish to be fair about it, and the truth is, and it hurts me to say this, is that more people have no issue with it than do have issue with it.

God, that hurt to say. :wacko:

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Here and it seems this problem ruins DVD-Burners, Cd burners by not letting them work properly. or in some reported cases at all.

I think Starforce should be reported like Sony/BMG for not only installing said drivers hidden on the system, but unbeknown to the user(I know this bcz i read the install EULA during my splintercell CT install and it said NOTHING!, I mean NOTHING about starforce being installed.

But in the end, i believe that protecting thier games/investments is fine, I've always said this, but to ruin peoples property is careless..copy protect your goods yes, ruin my system...###### no!

Edited by Papa6

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WARNING PPL DO NOT PURCHASE THIS GAME

here you can fin a list of games that use the c**p

http://www.similarities.org/starforce.html

this is my first post here but i have had an issue with starforce for a while now first dvd drive i had was a msi DR8-A which started not long after i installed psi ops but back then i did not realise what the cause was i just thought that my burner was faulty and after 4 months of media failing to write to disc it completely stopped working but after i installed brothers in arms earned in blood recently i started to get the same errors with my new nec dvd_rw nd-3540a so i took the starforce copy protection off my pc and right after a reeboot my drive started working with no errors(i tried to copy the same disc i got 3 errors previously). i can get this error to reoccure within hours of installing starforce and the fault dissapeares as soon as i remove the dodgy code from my drive so is it starforce that causes this?

below is a question that i asked ubisoft about the copy of brothers in arms i own but i still have not heared a thing. i sent this 2 weeks ago now and on my space the status of the question is Holding this is the ref no. 060308-000288 so if any ubi soft fools are hear please respond asap as 2 weeks is a joke!

http://ubisoft-en.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/ubi...ser/std_alp.php

THIS IS THE 4TH EMAIL I SENT AND BY THIS TIME I AM BECOMING QUITE FRACTIOUS.

I installed your game and played it fine but the very next day I started to get errors when burning with my DVD drive. this happened 4 times so I uninstalled the starforce copy protection and my burner now works again ###### is going on I have a game I cannot use because of the **** you are bundling with your software, sort it out btw I want a full refund on the game that is useless to me as it messes with my hardware!

Event Properties:

Source Cdrom

Type Error. Event ID:7

0000: 03 02 68 00 01 00 b8 00 ..h...¸.

0008: 00 00 00 00 07 00 04 c0 .......À

0010: 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........

0018: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........

0020: 00 00 31 17 01 00 00 00 ..1.....

0028: ed 7a 05 00 00 00 00 00 íz......

0030: ff ff ff ff 02 00 00 00 ÿÿÿÿ....

0038: 40 00 00 c4 02 00 01 00 @..Ä....

0040: ff 20 0a 12 4c 02 00 00 ÿ ..L...

0048: 00 00 00 00 88 13 00 00 ....ˆ...

0050: 00 00 18 02 e8 53 e1 84 ....èSá„

0058: 00 00 00 00 f0 86 c6 84 ....ð†Æ„

0060: 00 00 00 00 20 e6 22 00 .... æ".

0068: 28 00 00 22 e6 20 00 00 (.."æ ..

0070: 10 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........

0078: f0 00 03 00 22 e6 20 0a ð..."æ .

0080: 00 00 00 00 02 00 00 00 ........

0088: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........

P.S. there was a dxdiag and print screen of the event manager included, i will post any response i get other that the automated one.

Do you think if your backups fail that it is your media or the drive itself who would believe that a copy protection could be the cause, maybe that this is why so few people contact ubi and other companies about this, untill this code is tested by a none starforce/ubisoft dept. i will never install another starforce protected game and i believe that ubisoft and others should be forced to state the fact that starforce is included so people are not duped. :stupid::wall:

Edited by pigfister

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Starforce are adamant that they have been unable to duplicate effects such as that. I would be really interested to hear their response to your quite detailed experience.

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Dannik`s Link seems not to be loading, but I found another one.

Extracts from Neowin.

The basic story.

Stardock published their highly anticipated, turn-based strategy game "Galactic Civilizations 2" last week to rave reviews from most of the major gaming sites. Stardock decided not to include any copy protection scheme with the release, much to the surprise of the gaming community at large. No Starforce, SafeDisc or SecuROM to hinder any sort of unauthorized distribution.

Starforce camp have taken notice of the game and its apparent retail success without employing a copy protection scheme. In a thread over on the Starforce forums, a member posted a link entitled "Game published without copy protection isn't commercial disaster", clearly trying to evoke some sort of reply from the copy protection powers that be. A member of the Starforce admin staff immediately posted a link to a well known torrent site hosting illegal copies of GalCiv II, in an effort to show how many sales are being lost by not using copy protection. We caught up with Brad Wardell of Stardock this weekend for some reaction to this rather humorous turn of events:

"I don't claim to be incredibly informed on warez. I don't pirate stuff so I am not familiar with sites that people go to in order to find, amongst other things, warez. I was not familiar with the site they linked to. I suspect I'm not alone. We cannot understand why they felt the need to provide an actual URL rather than state the obvious -- that like all software, ours is being pirated at some level.

We obviously don't want people to pirate our software. Every time someone pirates it who might have possibly bought it we feel the pinch. We're a small company so every sale counts. We simply think there are other ways to go about it than to inconvenience customers with CD-based copy protection."

Our question is fairly simple: Why would a company that invests so heavily in preventing software theft from occurring, choose to point people directly at a site which promotes the exact opposite?

I would ask the same question.

Starforce Web Forum Post

GalCiv2.com News item. That links seems to have been taken down.

Edited by Colin

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A member of the Starforce admin staff immediately posted a link to a well known torrent site hosting illegal copies of GalCiv II,

:blink:

What I'd love to see is someone find that post and post a link to Lockdown (SF protected) warez, and see how they like that.

(edit, I see someone did just that lol!

I see they removed the original link, posted an apology, and closed the thread.

http://www.star-force.com/forum/index.php?...veral+thousands

An amazing turn of events to say the least. The guy that posted the link was a simple unpaid forum moderator, not paid SF staff, if you believe his post anyway. I can understand fans moderators on game forums, but who on earth would want to moderator a copyprotection forum for the fun of it? :blink:

All I know is, SF delays me playing my game for about 30 seconds, and does next to nothing to protect games anyway. Publishers need to find another solution. I love the story of the developer making No.1 sales with a game that has no copy protection.

Edited by Rocky

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Starforce are adamant that they have been unable to duplicate effects such as that. I would be really interested to hear their response to your quite detailed experience.

i can recreate the error within a day of usage with my drives, i have just posted on the starforce threads to see what trouble shooting advice they offer, probably delete my post or lock the thread. ::Burning Errors:: Starforce forums

i have had no response from ubi so i have contacted game(uk) as i purchased the game from them so they are the ones who have to take up the matter on my behalf. If i can get enough people to see the errors i am experiencing maybe more people will realisd that their drives are affected by starforce and they will speak out to fix this fatal flaw with the protection.

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Thanks Pig, their site is down right now, tech issues, I will keep an eye on your thread though.

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Hey guys I’m using a word processor to type this is up so please be patient with me. I wanted to recheck myself about the installation of star force during the overall installation. if you’re familiar with Splintercell Chaos theory then you know like most installs, there’s a EULA(end user license agreement) that you must agree to in order to install the game.

1)There was no language or even an insinuation as to the installation of Starforce drivers on your PC during the install. Upon my scrutiny of this EULA, I realized as I said before that there’s no indication nor language of any kind about the installation of the drivers that make up star force. This has me concerned as another firm SONY/BMG I read at Here

That even just that in this case, SONY/BMG must pay buyers even if their pc’s never experienced problems. So this leads me to believe that installing software(as in star force)is illegal as well. The settlement showed that the seriousness of installing software unknowingly on users pc’s is a big no-no.

Here’s an article from the EFF about the sony/BMG settlement Here

So with our buddy's post above(Pig), he has the proof that starforce DOES in fact screw people's pc's up. I wouldn't put it past anyone to call up the attorney(s), hell i might just to see if they bite, at the fact that starforce and UBISoft collaborate in so much that these drivers get installed on peoples pc's without approval from the user.

Added: I just filed a complaint with my states attorney general about starforce , what it does and how starforce and ubisoft have conspired to install this said copy protection on to peoples PC's without thier knowledge. it's analogous to the SONY/BMG rootkit debacle whereby they too installed rootkits unknown to peoples knowledge or permission.

Edited by Papa6

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Sorry for the double post, but i'm going to post the license agreement as i read it before I install splintercell chaos theory(which has the starforce protection on it.

here's the license agreement;

LICENCE TO USE TOM CLANCY’S SPLINTER CELL CHAOS THEORY™

Please read this Licence carefully before installing the game (“Tom Clancy’s Splinter Cell Chaos Theoryâ„¢â€).

This Licence is an agreement between you, the “Userâ€, and Ubisoft Entertainment and/or its licensors and/or its beneficiaries (“Ubisoftâ€), which grants the User the non-exclusive and non-transferable right to use the Multimedia Product.

This Licence is valid in the United States of America and Canada.

By installing the Multimedia Product, the User undertakes to respect the terms and conditions of the Licence.

1- The Licence

Ubisoft grants the User a non-exclusive and non-transferable Licence to use the Multimedia Product, but remains the owner of all the rights relating thereto.

Any rights not specifically transferred by this Licence remain the property of Ubisoft.

The Multimedia Product is licensed and not sold to the User, for private use.

The Licence does not confer any right or title to the Multimedia Product and cannot be understood as a transfer of intellectual property rights to the Multimedia Product.

2- Ownership of the Multimedia Product

The User recognises that all of the rights associated with the Multimedia Product and its components (in particular the titles, computer codes, themes, characters, character names, plots, stories, dialogues, places, concepts, images, photographs, animation, videos, music and text contained in the Multimedia Product), as well as the rights relating to the trademark, royalties and copyrights, are the property of Ubisoft and are protected by French regulations or other Laws, Treaties and international agreements concerning intellectual property.

3- Use of the Multimedia Product

The User is authorised to use the Multimedia Product in accordance with the instructions provided in the manual or on the packaging of the Multimedia Product.

The Licence is granted solely for private use.

It is not permitted:

- To make copies of the Multimedia Product,

- To operate the Multimedia Product commercially,

- To use it contrary to morality or the laws in force,

- To modify the Multimedia Product or create any derived work,

- To transmit the Multimedia Product via a telephone network or any other electronic means, except during multi-player games on authorised networks,

- To create or distribute unauthorised levels and/or scenarios,

- To decompile, reverse engineer or disassemble the Multimedia Product.

The User cannot sell, sublicense or lease the Multimedia Product to a third party.

The User can only transfer the Multimedia Product if the recipient agrees to the terms and conditions of the Licence. In this event, the User undertakes to transfer all components and documentation relating to the Multimedia Product. He also undertakes to delete any copy of the Multimedia Product from his computer. In this event, this Licence is automatically and immediately terminated.

4- Termination of the Licence

The Licence is effective from the first time the Multimedia Product is used.

It is terminated automatically by Ubisoft without notice if the User fails to adhere to the terms and conditions of the Licence.

5- Warrantee

Ubisoft warrants to the original purchaser of its products (the “Userâ€) that the products will be free from defects in materials and workmanship for a period of ninety (90) days from the date of purchase. Ubisoft products are sold "as is", without any expressed or implied warranties of any kind, and Ubisoft is not liable for any losses or damages of any kind resulting from use of its products.  Ubisoft agrees for a period of ninety (90) days (or any other longer warranty period provided by applicable legislation) to either replace defective product free of charge provided you return the defective item with dated proof of purchase to the store from which the product was originally purchased or repair or replace the defective product at its option free of charge, when accompanied with a proof of purchase and sent to our offices postage prepaid.  This warranty is not applicable to normal wear and tear, and shall be void if the defect in the product is found to be as a result of abuse, unreasonable use, mistreatment or neglect of the product.

Ubisoft offers a technical support service which details are indicated in the manual of the Multimedia Product.

To obtain an exchange for a defective Multimedia Product, the User shall contact Ubisoft technical support and expose the problem and be as specific as possible about the problem the User is experiencing and have the below details available:

The name of the manufacturer of the computer system

The brand and speed of the processor

The quantity of RAM the computer system has

The version number of windows (right-click on the my computer icon on the desktop and select ‘properties’)

The name of the manufacturer and the model number of the video card, modem, and sound card.

Once confirmed, arrangements will be taken with the Ubisoft technical support so the User can proceed to exchange the Multimedia Product (disc only), either by means of mail or in person at the User’s convenience. (Warning: it is mandatory to go through Ubisoft’s technical support to validate the exchange beforehand).

6- Warrantee Limitation

The User recognises expressly that he uses the Multimedia Product at his own risk.

The Multimedia Product is provided as is. The User is responsible for any costs of repairing and/or correcting the Multimedia Product.

To the extent of what is laid down by the Law, Ubisoft rejects any warrantee relating to the market value of the Multimedia Product, the User’s satisfaction or its capacity to perform a specific use.

The User is responsible for all risks connected with lost profit, lost data, errors and lost business or other information as a result of owning or using the Multimedia Product.

The User is responsible to ascertain that his/her computer system meets the requirements as described on the Multimedia Product’s packaging.

As some legislations do not allow for the aforementioned warrantee limitation, it is possible that it does not apply to the User.

7- Liability

In no event can Ubisoft be held liable for any direct, consequential, accidental, special, ancillary or other damages arising out of the use or inability to use the Multimedia Product, as well as out of the ownership or poor functioning thereof, even if Ubisoft has been advised of the possibility of such damages.

In particular, Ubisoft accepts no liability regarding use of the Multimedia Product contrary to the precautions for use set out in the manual and on the packaging.

As some legislations do not allow exemption from liability in the event of direct or incidental damages, it is possible that the aforementioned exclusion does not apply to the User.

This Licence to use the Multimedia Product grants specific rights to the User and he may have other rights depending on the laws in his State or Province.

this part under the warrantee limitation section states section #6

The User recognises expressly that he uses the Multimedia Product at his own risk.

ok, we use it at our own risk, but we have NO idea that you're secretly installing copy protection software on our systems.

In closing, Starforce refuses to recognize flaws in thier copy protection system and Ubisoft fails to inform and get user permission to install said software.

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ok, i just read this, starforce "had" provided a URL link to illegal torrent files, see the article Here

a screen capture of the starforce thread where the link was posted;

look here

This perplexes me alot, we are supposed to trust these jackasses? first, MPAA gets caught copying a DVD, something they abhore and sue people over constantly, now Starforce has published an illegal URL link to un protected copies of a game.

so Starforce, it is my pleasure to give you my opinion..

250gb.jpg

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You could tell right away when this thread was started, when Colin had that guy come in and the serious questions started flowing, that it was a complete joke. Alot of us have known this crap about StarFarce for years. But mostly no one listened.

As soon as proof starts getting posted, guess what? No more company rep here to answer for any of this.

What a joke.

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By the way, if you are having technical issues with SF, then please try out this link:

StarForce Technical Suggestions/Advice...

Might be of help to some people here who have/or feel they are going to have problems with this installed on to their computer.

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graw comes out... no SF agreements in the EULA

and it messes my stuff up... Im getting me 2,000$ from starforce

iv had my system long enough to know how ti works... and im on the most current BIOS for my dvd-rom... it has had no problems at all

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All code can be cracked but starforce is damaging my computer. If you want to play online you need a serial so why is starforce there? I care more about my system than a game. I get no support for ubisoft what so ever. aaaarrrggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH The corporate ###### suckin the big ###### of Satan will burn in hell for all eternity.. WHY DO THEY NOT RESPOND?

Thats about all i can say on that topic.

http://www.star-force.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=707

MODERATOR EDIT: Do not bypass the swear filter.

Edited by ZJJ

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Have just brought LD and installed it, with no problems to my hadrware at all. No slow downs, no dvd problems, accessing the net ok......

But hey, maybe I'm just special! :D

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Which leaves just one game then Spectre, so it doesnt look like starforce is doing the job its being paid to do, which begs the question, why bother putting it on in the first place?

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Hey crowman, how's it hanging mate? I guess aside from the system troubles that pig is having, this is turning out to be analogous to the SONY/BMG issue of installing stuff on peoples Pc's "without" thier permission.

Starforce: keep your damn copy protection on the CD and leave my system alone!

Edited by Papa6

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Which leaves just one game then Spectre, so it doesnt look like starforce is doing the job its being paid to do, which begs the question, why bother putting it on in the first place?

I also agree that StarFarce is on it's way out, as it should be. I think they drove their main nail into the coffin with that link to wares sites. What a bunch of idiots.

I had trouble with it awhile back, as it fubarred the firmware on a CD drive I had at the time.

I got Lockdown today, and just running the game for the first time required reboots and it was a pain in the ass. I love the game, but it is a major hassle to get it going.

As for Piracy, even back in the 80's, I don't think it really started out as an intent to pirate. Computer tech was new, and in the 80's, and I've seen alot of documentaries on this, which included interviews with the actual hackers, but it was done mostly back then, just because people were interested in the code, and they wanted to play with it and change it.

For the most part today, yes, it is piracy. One reason for it is the cost of the products, and as said earlier in this thread, forking out 50 bucks for a product that sucks is the main reason why.

Just like the guy above who said that he goes out and buys what he likes. I'm not condoning piracy in the least. But with the economy as it is, as hard as it is to get decent jobs and have 50 bucks to spend, I can see where he is coming from. It was like me and BF2. That has got to be one of the worst products I have ever bought. 50 bucks for a bug infested product, that only got worse with each patch and expansion.

When Ravenshield came out, it was the same way. Me and my clan bought it, 49.99, for a game we couldn't play online, because it was lag city with frame rates below 10fps in most cases, and it took the gamers, not Ubi, months to figure out what they didn't do to make it playable. Once it was playable, it was, and is a great game.

Another thing that leads to piracy, is lack of decent support for the games.

Ubi unfortunately is very bad for this. Look at the guy from Spain who has posted here, that bought multiple copies from a retailer and they all have the same serial number, and he can't play it. Ubi has never even responded to him. It turned out that every copy that retailer had had the exact same serial number. And Ubi-Spain never replied to the customer or the retailer. That cost Ubi 14 sales, I think the guy said, right there.

If the software companies want to cut piracy, they need to do a couple things, and unfortunately, most are too greedy to do them. First, they need to make the game or product affordable for most everyone. Right now they are not. Second, they need to turn out a product that is of good quality, and reasonably bug free. There are always going to be glitches. But not in the numbers they have been in the past 8 or ten years. Next, they have to provide decent support for the product. Unfortunatley, most companies don't do this either. we are basically left to our own devices for that, and in alot of cases, it takes a hacker to figure it out, because there is lousy company support. But then they bad mouth hackers.

In large part, piracy, especially with software has come about because people are tired of wasting their money. The same with pirating console games. You don't see any complaints about that from publishers, because they want to blame it all on PC hackers. But console game piracy is living large. In some ways, alot larger than piracy for PC games. It is even possible now to get console games, the 360 is the ecxception right now, but it won't take long, to get any console game you want, and play it on your PC, because emulators have been built.

Yes, piracy is stealing, it's unethical, and it's wrong. But the publishers are just as, if not more so, responsible for the piracy problem as the guys that do the pirating. And if they accepted responsibility for that fact, and amended alot of these problems, piracy would fall dramatically.

StarFarce has been proven not to work. That is a fact. Lockdown was available with [Thing that should not be spoken of here] and fully downloadable with serial numbers the day it hit store shelves. The fact is, most of this crap doesn't work. And putting things like StarFarce in the products that honest people actually go and buy, only forces it down the throat of the honest person, who doesn't deserve to have to put up with the problems it creates. If it actually worked, it would be one thing. But it doesn't reduce piracy, only the corporations can do that, and things like StarFarce aren't going to help. It is only more of a hassle for the devs and the honest customer who pays the salary for the dev and publisher.

It's like gun control. The only people that gun control affects is the law abiding citizen that didn't need the damn laws in the first place. And it isn't keeping the criminals from getting guns or commiting crimes.

These big corporations, as well as the government need to stop thinking ass-backwards, quit thinking only in the short term, and start making some changes. And they need to qquit putting all of the burden on the consumer, who being a consumer is being legal, and start accepting some responsibility for their part in all of this.

Until then, piracy is going to be a big fact of software life, whether it be computer or console.

One thing is sure: just like anything else that can be made, it can be unmade. And copy protection is no different, and that is a proven fact. If something can be coded, it can be uncoded. End of story. And as long as companies keep turning out rushed and low quality products, people are going to download and try first before they go spend 50 bucks on something that will become a coffee table coaster 2 days later.

What they fail to understand is that these stupid measures they take like using StarFarce, is only making their paying customers suffer for something they aren't doing, and it isn't affecting the pirates at all.

That is the plain, simple truth.

Publishers, wake up and smell the coffee. This is a problem that only you can reduce, for it will never disappear completely. But with crap like this StarFarce, your sales are going to start going majorly down the toilet, on top of the total and complete waste of cash that you publishers spent on this so-called copy protection in the first place.

Make a quality product, make it affordable, and support it.

Then you will see the results you want. And long term, you will make alot more money.

Edited by Specter

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I'd like to add spectre that, even if you uninstall the game, the starforce drivers are still on your PC.

It stays on your frikkin' PC! so here's a direct link to download the starforce driver removal tool Here

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