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Colin

Official StarForce Feed Back Thread

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Recently I asked one of the Starforce people some questions about the software, as we have had of late some questions asked about its Reliability.

One of the team has offered to answer questions that you may have about this software.

His Name is Dmitriy Gusev.

Site details:

http://www.star-force.com/

http://star-force.com/forum/index.php

These are just a couple of comments from him re some questions I asked:

StarForce as you say is easy enough to get rid of, there are even a couple of removal programs around one of which is supplied by the StarForce provider.

But be aware that if you remove it you ain't gonna be playing the game.

---------

Don't go removing the drivers or you won't be able to play the games that are starforce protected

After removing SF drivers you cant play SF protected game untill you start the game once more! It will install drivers one more time and you will be able to pay game as normaly.

Also ask users to ckech thier rigs on driver from the other copy rpotection providers:

http://www.star-force.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=612

About optical drivers fails - we'v really havent ever reproduce this bug. And same the UBISOFT, and same the other SF partners all over the world.

Also i have to noticed that UBISOFT already understand how to strike against such forum topics - they'v simple closed it.

We have the Ubisoft statistic on SF problems on MEGA titles - SCCH and SH3, you can fined it here:

http://www.star-force.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=194

Feel free to answer any questions you like!

Before we start:

Please treat this member with the same respect you would show other members on this forum.

I have had this software on my sytem for a couple years and not had any problems with it, so I do not have any questions.

Thank you for agreeing to come here and answer questions for us.

:thumbsup:

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Again, it appears like there isn't much to worry about. I didn't even realise it was on my system until the other day.

Thing is, I've got more things to worry about like crossing the road ;) than this software it seems.

Should add that I'd welcome Dmitriy Gusev to come on here and answer a few questions for us to wrap up this situation once and for all.

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In the link justifying Ubisoft's using Starforce (here), right at the start it say...

I wont also enter the argument on WHY we use this protection system. Simply put, it’s the best available on the market. It takes weeks or even months to get a barely cracked version of a game, and usually it does not get fully cracked.

... I didn't read any further I am afraid, because the highlighted bit simply is not true, so how could I be sure anything in that piece is true.

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This is why I stated what I did about double-speak. We want straight forward answers to questions and not the run around. Lockdown was on the net available for download the very day it was released, even with SF protection. Go figure.

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I dont think any of this will be able to prevent people from cracking open games and making them available in working condition, i am with Rocky.

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Lockdown was on the net available for download the very day it was released, even with SF protection. Go figure.

Yes, that is what I was hinting at. LD was actually available cracked BEFORE release due to worldwide release date differences. And if anyone was to look for it now, a week after release, they'd find a ton of cracks for it - and let's face it, Lockdown hasn't even been a popular game at launch!!

So please, make all the copy protection you like, and sell it to you game developer customers as 100% effective if you wish, but anyone with an internet connection can check how effective that protection actually is. Or in this case, is not.

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I purchased a copy of Rainbow Six Lockdown friday last, i noticed on the back of the PC dvd-rom case -NOTICE: This game contains technology intended to prevent copying that may conflict with some DVD-RW and virtual drives. Anyway the game installed without a hitch, starforce logo popped up at the end of game installation, SF asked for a restart of computer, all is well, no major problems. The only thing i noticed is when i have had enough of gaming and i exit the game, back to desktop i can't eject the disc from DVD drive, i have to either wait a few minutes or if i'm in a hurry i have to go to start, click my computer and right click on dvd drive and choose eject, other than that i have no issues with Starforce. Well i'm pleased that starforce had no major issues with my -NEC DVD RW ND-4550A.

Edited by =warcloud=

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In the link justifying Ubisoft's using Starforce (here), right at the start it say...

I wont also enter the argument on WHY we use this protection system. Simply put, it’s the best available on the market. It takes weeks or even months to get a barely cracked version of a game, and usually it does not get fully cracked.

... I didn't read any further I am afraid, because the highlighted bit simply is not true, so how could I be sure anything in that piece is true.

I totally agree with you. Not just because it's Ubi that wrote it, but because it's a fact.

It just isn't worth reading, when they can't even print the truth, and that clearly isn't the truth, and I'm sorry, but you can't tell me either that they don't know it's not the truth. I think the truth is, they don't want to admit that the protection scheme that they paid big bucks for just isn't that effective.

And while it's a noble effort for the Starforce guy to come over here and all, there are a couple things he said to Colin, that I find suspect, quoted from Colin's talk with him in post #1 of this thread:

About optical drivers fails - we'v really havent ever reproduce this bug. And same the UBISOFT, and same the other SF partners all over the world.

Here, it sounds like he doesn't believe the problem exists, but we have heard of cases of this happening, and not just one or two of us here, like me and WK, there are others. We KNOW that it can be a problem, although it has been a little bit since we heard about it.

Also i have to noticed that UBISOFT already understand how to strike against such forum topics - they'v simple closed it.

Simply shutting down a forum topic because someone doesn't like what your product does, or because they disagree with your product because of what it does isn't going to gain you any credibility whatsoever with me, at least.

And, as said in the other Starforce thread by me:

Believe it or not, there are a great deal of people out there that don't even know what it is.

Their game or app may not run, but they don't know why, and may not have the inclination or know-how to pursue it and find out why, so they take it back, or throw it away.

This would be a topic that mostly enthusiasts and hardcore tech freaks would talk about.

Joe Public for the most part doesn't even realize that this could be the issue they are having.

The majority of folks don't really pursue boards like this, and spend hours reading up on this stuff.

Heck, even alot of gamers don't know what it is, the only reason that we do, is because we are hounds for tech, and we aren't typical users, if something doesn't work, this crowd here digs until they find out why.

But I find both sources here, both Starforce and Ubi unreliable, because in one thread, they have both been caought out twice in what isn't true, and they have to know it isn't, but they print it anyway.

Highly suspect indeed...

And this:

I purchased a copy of Rainbow Six Lockdown friday last, i noticed on the back of the PC dvd-rom case -NOTICE: This game contains technology intended to prevent copying that may conflict with some DVD-RW and virtual drives. Anyway the game installed without a hitch, starforce logo popped up at the end of game installation, SF asked for a restart of computer, all is well, no major problems. The only thing i noticed is when i have had enough of gaming and i exit the game, back to desktop i can't eject the disc from DVD drive, i have to either wait a few minutes or if i'm in a hurry i have to go to start, click my computer and right click on dvd drive and choose eject, other than that i have no issues with Starforce. Well i'm pleased that starforce had no major issues with my -NEC DVD RW ND-4550A.

In my mind, it has no business even altering your drive settings this much, but that is my opinion.

Colin,

while I appreciate the effort you went to to have this gentleman answer some questions for us, and this is not against him personally, the info just isn't credible.

Edited by Specter

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Admin Edit : Note that forum refernces in this post are about a different forum NOT this one.

Before this goes off to another planet.

Couple facts about the software.

I got this this morning.

Star force Software:

This protection system is now used in all of the major games released by Ubisoft, such as Splinter Cell 3. Heroes 5, hopefully, belongs to that category.

Why do we use this protection system?

The main reason is simple: this is the most efficient protection system against piracy. Games rarely get cracked with it, and when they do, it takes quite a long time. For instance Splinter Cell 3, released in March, has not been completely cracked yet.

I don’t think I need to explain why a publisher needs to protects its games against piracy.

What are the reported problems with this protection?

I will list here the real problems, reported to our support department, about Star force, and detail what, indeed, cannot be done with a game protected by Star force.

Some users reported that the game wouldn’t launch. Others, although less numerous, that a drive disappeared from their list of drives. This can happen in case of driver conflict (and we all encountered that when using Windows). Uninstalling the game and the protection had the drive reappear, of course, and replacing the game disc generally fixed both issues.

Star force doesn’t uninstall automatically when you uninstall a game protected with it. This is due to how this protection is done. It can anyway be removed easily at any time, using tools provided by their company. Of course if you launch the game after removing the protection system, it won’t work.

The only real issues I can see is that you need to insert the CD to launch a game, effectively preventing the use of ISO versions, and that you can’t make a backup of the disc. These points cannot be resolved, as it would lead to very simple copying of the game, and thus, the protection would be made useless. However, in the case of disc damaging through normal use, it would of course be replaced by support.

Some Forums Talk about Star force:

There is a short and there is a long answer to this question. I'll give you both, starting with the short one: these claims are invented (to be polite).

Onto the long answer. No, Star force doesn’t destroy of prevent the use of other software’s (CD burning, emulation or others). It doesn’t break down your computer, doesn’t spy on your use of a computer, it doesn’t require a web connection (unless in the case of a protected download of course). There was no report of such problems, and the installed base of Star force with Ubisoft games alone is quite enough to be considered a good statistic.

There were problems with the previous protection systems we used, and I don’t think there was such a rant.

So what about all that can be read here and there? That's called a hate campaign. It’s fueled by people who are indeed made angry by the protection, and the only group that is made angry is the crackers.

As they and their friends are pretty much living online (a quirk I share to some extent), they can be quite effective in spreading rumors. And it seems that many forum readers can be impressed when two or three persons keep repeating the same thing over and over, even if it happens to be false. I'm afraid this is how politics work too.

I will keep checking problems reported here, but let me just say that I wont break a sweat about false claims, and about crackers and their friends being annoyed.

To conclude this part, in order for everyone to get hard facts about Star force, here is a small document on how it works.

Our admins reported that multiple avatars have been created by a single person. This person starts an argument, and then logs with his different avatars to fuel the discussion, and create a seemingly important debate - and, of course, to push his point forward.

I don’t really mind when the subject is minor, although the method is unethical. If you have too much time on your hands, there is certainly more productive than this.

This kind of method seem to have been used again in this discussion on the protection system.

And I don’t consider it, and the way it is presented, to be a minor subject. Dispersing fears and hate is clearly not acceptable, and accounts or IPs will be banned if this is witnessed again.

Ok thats just a small reply.

I would really like to keep this post to actual facts.

The whole point of this post is to ask specific questions, about the software.

Not to talk about some 3rd party post on some other forum.

Many of which I have read today and are very supect indeed.

Posting once to complain about software, and only once, and on the same day of becoming a member of said forum.

Very fishy indeed.

So:

1. If you want to ask a question about the software ASK IT

2. If you have a problem with the software TELL THEM

Colin

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Before this goes off to another planet.

Couple facts about the software.

I got this this morning.

Star force Software:

This protection system is now used in all of the major games released by Ubisoft, such as Splinter Cell 3. Heroes 5, hopefully, belongs to that category.

Why do we use this protection system?

The main reason is simple: this is the most efficient protection system against piracy. Games rarely get cracked with it, and when they do, it takes quite a long time. For instance Splinter Cell 3, released in March, has not been completely cracked yet.

I don’t think I need to explain why a publisher needs to protects its games against piracy.

What are the reported problems with this protection?

I will list here the real problems, reported to our support department, about Star force, and detail what, indeed, cannot be done with a game protected by Star force.

Some users reported that the game wouldn’t launch. Others, although less numerous, that a drive disappeared from their list of drives. This can happen in case of driver conflict (and we all encountered that when using Windows). Uninstalling the game and the protection had the drive reappear, of course, and replacing the game disc generally fixed both issues.

Star force doesn’t uninstall automatically when you uninstall a game protected with it. This is due to how this protection is done. It can anyway be removed easily at any time, using tools provided by their company. Of course if you launch the game after removing the protection system, it won’t work.

The only real issues I can see is that you need to insert the CD to launch a game, effectively preventing the use of ISO versions, and that you can’t make a backup of the disc. These points cannot be resolved, as it would lead to very simple copying of the game, and thus, the protection would be made useless. However, in the case of disc damaging through normal use, it would of course be replaced by support.

Some Forums Talk about Star force:

There is a short and there is a long answer to this question. I'll give you both, starting with the short one: these claims are invented (to be polite).

Onto the long answer. No, Star force doesn’t destroy of prevent the use of other software’s (CD burning, emulation or others). It doesn’t break down your computer, doesn’t spy on your use of a computer, it doesn’t require a web connection (unless in the case of a protected download of course). There was no report of such problems, and the installed base of Star force with Ubisoft games alone is quite enough to be considered a good statistic.

There were problems with the previous protection systems we used, and I don’t think there was such a rant.

So what about all that can be read here and there? That's called a hate campaign. It’s fueled by people who are indeed made angry by the protection, and the only group that is made angry is the crackers.

These are the problems we talk of, and lead to our concerns over Starforce.  We have heard of several problems with the software.

As they and their friends are pretty much living online (a quirk I share to some extent), they can be quite effective in spreading rumors. And it seems that many forum readers can be impressed when two or three persons keep repeating the same thing over and over, even if it happens to be false. I'm afraid this is how politics work too.

What does this have to do with here?  Would this be saying that what we have heard or experienced is false, or that we are just not believed?  I don't understand why this is even here.

I will keep checking problems reported here, but let me just say that I wont break a sweat about false claims, and about crackers and their friends being annoyed.

We don't make false claims here, and we don't talk about or support cracking, so I don't understand why this is here either.

To conclude this part, in order for everyone to get hard facts about Star force, here is a small document on how it works.

Our admins reported that multiple avatars have been created by a single person. This person starts an argument, and then logs with his different avatars to fuel the discussion, and create a seemingly important debate - and, of course, to push his point forward.

I don’t really mind when the subject is minor, although the method is unethical. If you have too much time on your hands, there is certainly more productive than this.

This kind of method seem to have been used again in this discussion on the protection system.

And I don’t consider it, and the way it is presented, to be a minor subject. Dispersing fears and hate is clearly not acceptable, and accounts or IPs will be banned if this is witnessed again.

What has this to do with us?  Nobody is making false claims, no one is talking about cracking the protection, as we don't allow talk of cracking or piracy here.  So where is this coming from?

Ok thats just a small reply.

I would really like to keep this post to actual facts.

The whole point of this post is to ask specific questions, about the software.

Not to talk about some 3rd party post on some other forum.

Many of which I have read today and are very suspect indeed.

Posting once to complain about software, and only once, and on the same day of becoming a member of said forum.

Very fishy indeed.

I don't see anything in this thread from a brand-new-today, one time poster complaining about the software.

So:

1. If you want to ask a question about the software ASK IT

2. If you have a problem with the software            TELL THEM

Colin

What is the point of this post? It seems more like it's just a post complaining about people's concerns. The people who have posted in this thread so far are long-time, respected members of the community.

So why this "dressing-down" post?

It seems to me anyway, like this post was made more to put people on notice than anything else. And it seems like it's a discussion of admin problems from another forum. Why is it here? It really doesn't pertain to the software.

It seems to me that gr.net already has a good set of forum rules, and so far they have been followed by everyone, including the owner who has posted in this thread.

I don't think it was necessary to point out another forum's problems, because we pointed out errors in some posted information.

I apologize, and I mean no insult, but I don't think this post is very productive.

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I don't quite understand that post either, going on about multiple accounts, faking debates, none of that goes on here... maybe it's a different forum.

Before we start going around in circles here's my take on it, based on what I have read here and on other forums (it's a pity Dannik is not around as he has read more than me).

I believe that game publishers and Starforce believe SF is the best game protection around, and that it causes no damage to users hardware.

I do not believe it is effective and takes months to "crack", how can they say that in light of R6:Lockdown (appeared on P2P the same week of release)?

Whether or not it causes damage I cannot say, you really cannot believe anything you read on other forums unless you know the person involved.

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Rock, I don't quite understand that post either, going on about multiple accounts, faking debates, none of that goes on here... maybe it's a different forum.

Because I assume that post originate from other forum, and people in here quote these post and put links up for them. Some of these forums and posts are very suspect in them selves.

If we use another forum and its post to bolster the against argument.

This has been done on this forum.

Its one of the reasons for this original post, to get first hand feedback.

I do not believe it is effective and takes months to "crack", how can they say that in light of R6:Lockdown (appeared on P2P the same week of release)?

Ok if this is true, was the hack complet or just a partial hack?

Has it been proved to be hacked by one of our members, has he or she completly hacked the game.

I myself would like to have some form of protection for the game.

Whether or not it causes damage I cannot say, you really cannot believe anything you read on other forums unless you know the person involved.

This is indeed a valuable statment.

The post above was just a form of information about what has been going on and some facts about the software no more no less.

To be honest really this software is checked by hundreds of techs all over the globe, from different companies, and yes a few people here are not happy with it, this is why we need to sort it out one way or another, after all most of us use Ubisoft games at one point or another, if carry on using this software, we need to be heard.

I also feel that this guy can come in here and talk to us on a personnel level without reproach, unlike the Ubi forum where moderating seems to be very low, no offence to those that moderate at UBI.

Colin

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Because I assume that post originate from other forum, and people in here quote these post and put links up for them. Some of these forums and posts are very suspect in them selves.

If we use another forum and its post to bolster the against argument.

This has been done on this forum.

Its one of the reasons for this original post, to get first hand feedback.

But we haven't linked to anything in this thread. No need to assume anything. And people link to other sites all the time to provide sources for where they got their information, so that it can be verified and shared.

Ok if this is true, was the hack complet or just a partial hack?

Has it been proved to be hacked by one of our members, has he or she completly hacked the game.

I myself would like to have some form of protection for the game.

Complete crack. It allows the game to be played without the CD. Most all games have cracks released within days of their release, even to include serial numbers so that they can be played, even if it's only single-player. Happens all the time, and it takes nowhere near months to see them pop-up on the internet. So, someone makes an ISO of the game, it doesn't need to play. The ISO will just tell you to insert the CD. Then you go get the [Thing that should not be spoken of here] , and your off to the races. No, it doesn't allow you to play on the net MP, because you have to have a valid serial for that, but it is cracked, nonetheless. And I have heard of planty of people that have used key and activation generator programs that allow use of copy protected software. It's actually done all of the time.

That statement was inaccurate. very much so.

I can't speak to PHYSICAL damage of componenets, however I have seen this program mess with the ordinary way a drive works, such as not being able to eject, the right click eject option not working, and some drives not even being able to read it(the most common), as well as some people not being able to read CD's placed in the drive directly following a game with this software on it, without a reboot.

The post above was just a form of information about what has been going on and some facts about the software no more no less.

Actually, that post gave us nothing more than a look at some of the problems they reportedly have on their forums, more than anything concerning StarForce itself.

To be honest really this software is checked by hundreds of techs all over the globe, from different companies, and yes a few people here are not happy with it, this is why we need to sort it out one way or another, after all most of us use Ubisoft games at one point or another, if carry on using this software, we need to be heard.

I also feel that this guy can come in here and talk to us on a personnel level without reproach, unlike the Ubi forum where moderating seems to be very low, no offence to those that moderate at UBI.

I don't see where that post had anything at all to do with the StarForce copy protection scheme. It looked like an outing at someone else's forum boards.

Also, it's not just a few people here who aren't happy with it. There are legitimate issues, and with more than just a few people here, if they are having those kinds of problems on their forum boards.

And, I think if you want to have a legitimate thread here, it ought to be strictly technical, not bringing in all that other stuff in that post, that has us all going "######"?

Afterall, other people's forum issues aren't our issues.

Edited by Specter

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So, those gamers that do not trust Starforce-software+drivers are not going to buy Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter? Dudes ya gonna miss out on an awesome game. I know of one DVD-RW drive that is ok with Starforce+drivers and that's the NEC ND 4550A, it's not expensive and it looks great in black. I posted earlier about an issue when closing down a game with Starforce, and that i could not access the drive straight away to eject the disc, i tried this again earlier and the disc ejected straight away, maybe it was me going too fast.

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The Post I put that a couple of you have some problems with, I have found the original posted on UBI forums.

This an official responce from UBI Re Starforce Software.

Starforce : final report October 2005.

As promised, here is a second report about the protection system we will use with Heroes 5. I got my hand on precise data on the Ubisoft games protected with this very system, and also reports from the betatest. I hope it will appease the remaining fears and prove to be a useful information. However there wont be a third report from me on this subject, I've already spent enough time on this detail.

First off, I wont repeat the basics, refer to this post if you want : http://forums.ubi.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc.../7781019843/p/1

I wont also enter the argument on WHY we use this protection system. Simply put, it’s the best available on the market. It takes weeks or even months to get a barely cracked version of a game, and usually it does not get fully cracked. This is a world of difference with having the game you've been working on for more than two years available as warez on the launch day, in terms of sales, but also in terms of team spirit.

So the subject of this post is to detail the problems encountered with the Starforce system.

My study is based on four games published earlier this year by Ubisoft, totalling more than half a million copies over a few months, protected by Starforce. I believe this is a large enough population to derive statistics from.

The number of reported problems totals 0,3% of sold copies. Splinter Cell 3, being a very popular title, generated more reports than usual (see below), and without this title, the level of problems drops to 0,1%. That's one user out of a thousand, and less than 500 reports all in all, worldwide. I'd say this is low enough but I'll get into more details, what matters is the type of problems reported, of course.

Most problems (more than 60%) have to do with the activation key or the disc check. Starforce comes in two versions : downloaded content with activation key, or protected disk. The protection works exactly in the same way, except how it is activated. The reported problems are either that the key was mistyped, or not valid anymore, or that the disc check failed, or not found. When the disc check is failed, it is easy to solve, so the legal user will have opportunity to play anyway.

A large number of problems (20%) are specific to SC3, and linked with users trying to start an ISO image of the game with an emulator. In such a case, the protection prevents the game to be launched, as it is supposed to do.

What can be considered real troubles are system crashes, or driver problems, or hardware problems. This is around 10% of reports. So that's about one player in ten thousands. I think this is a level consistent with ANY windows application

Ok but what happens beyond a problem report ? More than 95% of these problems have been solved with the help of Starforce or Ubisoft support people. Actually the level is usually 100%, except on two problems.

The first is with a system crash, it only gets solved two thirds of the time. This happens in 2% of reported problems, less than one user out of ten thousands. So its unsolved for one user out of thirty thousands. In such case starting in safe mode and removing the protection suppresses the crash cause.

The second is with cd/dvd functions problems (no more read/write) reported with Silent Hunter 3. Out of 11 such problems reported, only 2 cases were solved. The problem could not be reproduced, and the origin could not be found. It is suspected not linked with Starforce. It could be due to a defective manufacturing of the cd in the first place, as this is appearing only with one game title. On a statistics level, it is still very low, around one user out of a fifty thousands (0.002%).

Sure, but these are reported problems only ? What about the real existing problems that do not get reported ? Well that's right, we don’t know about the troubles encountered by users who did not report them. But when you're a legitimate buyer, and you have all the contact info to try to solve an issue, why would you NOT do it ? Not much of a logic there, so hopefully these reports cover most actual problems.

Now, what about live experience of the protection system ? We've been running the betatest for more than two weeks now, with Starforce included. Well I'd say that what we encountered is consistent with the statistics : a bit more than half a dozen reported problems, mostly linked with typing the key, and only one case that took a long time to solve (meaning, for the game to be playable). The furor on Starforce has now died in the betatesters people, and some of them were VERY active in this matter. That's probably even more comforting than statistics.

That's about all. I treated a very detailed list of reports, and I believe this is accurate. I'd like to address another issue bothering some people : the installing and uninstalling of Starforce. Some seem troubled by the fact that it gets installed without consent, and does not uninstall automatically.

Starforce gets installed with the content that it is protecting, no more no less. It is only one library out of dozens that a game uses. When you install a game, you have to install all of its libraries, you don’t get prompted on each of them. Either you agree to install the game, including its protection, or you don’t.

Regarding uninstall, I already said that indeed it is not uninstalling automatically, unless the protected application or game decides so. Heroes 5 will uninstall Starforce when you uninstall the game. In any case you can find the tools on the web to manually uninstall if you want to. But remember that other applications could be protected by Starforce as well, and they WILL require it to be reinstalled to work properly. In such case the protection will be reinstalled automatically, for the application to run properly. It just sounds logical.

That is Ubisoft possition on STARFORCE.

Colin

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:offtopic:

The point of this thread is to ask a representative from StarForce questions about the software.

If you have an issue about the software and would like to discuss it with the representative, that can be done here as well.

This picking apart of a discussion is not necessary and off topic. I would hate to have to delete a bunch of posts because this is strayed away from the intent of this thread.

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I do not believe it is effective and takes months to "crack", how can they say that in light of R6:Lockdown (appeared on P2P the same week of release)?

Ok if this is true, was the hack complet or just a partial hack?

I wouldn't have posted it if it wasn't true, full working versions of R6:LD on P2P networks on the day of release.

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I do not believe it is effective and takes months to "crack", how can they say that in light of R6:Lockdown (appeared on P2P the same week of release)?

Ok if this is true, was the hack complet or just a partial hack?

I wouldn't have posted it if it wasn't true, full working versions of R6:LD on P2P networks on the day of release.

So the question that would come from this is:

Why put so much extra software on a computer that does not seem to do the job it was designed for.??????

And how much money could be saved by the consumer if no protection was included.??????

I take it the end game is to protect the product and its makers, but if the software does not do this then why bother??????

Colin

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> Open discussion about piracy protection. No piracy incentive intended. <

The sad thing is that this kind of protection, kinda forces people that do not want SF, towards pirated copies, as they are SF free.

Ex: I’m gonna buy my copy of GRAW, then after I’m gonna have to DL a Starforce free copy of it and install that version of the game on my PC. Just because I don’t want Starforce on my rig, but I want to support the people involved in the making of my favourite title and I want them to make more, better, bigger games. And that my friends is ridiculous.

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I do not believe it is effective and takes months to "crack", how can they say that in light of R6:Lockdown (appeared on P2P the same week of release)?

Ok if this is true, was the hack complet or just a partial hack?

I wouldn't have posted it if it wasn't true, full working versions of R6:LD on P2P networks on the day of release.

So the question that would come from this is:

Why put so much extra software on a computer that does not seem to do the job it was designed for.??????

And how much money could be saved by the consumer if no protection was included.??????

I take it the end game is to protect the product and its makers, but if the software does not do this then why bother??????

Colin

Some of us have been asking that very question for years.

But the companies like Ubi swear that it's effective. It's the same thing with DVD movies.

They can all be ripped and DL'd.

Like Raton says, some of this stuff turns people towards it even, along with high prices.

If they forewent the copy protection and lowered the prices, it's thought by some that a big dent in piracy could be made, just because then, everyone, or more people anyway, could actually afford to go out and buy the product.

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and…

1. Make a killer game. Don’t hold back thinking that you must sell another game to us soon. That won’t work.

2. Include lots of stuff to make the file as large as possible, to discourage some folks to spend days trying to download the file. No, not movies, they can be removed if too big. I’m talking in game stuff, options, stuff that makes the game replayable.

3. Don’t aggravate the good people that made your success. Try and talk to the fans and share info about your projects, instead of ignoring them all the time.

4. Allow the devs to come and talk to us about THEIR work. That would make people understand how much work it is to fabricate a good game. Therefore, the public would become accomplices of the success of your product.

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Honestly, I dont even see why any company would put any software protection on anything. I realize they want to protect their software, and I want them to do that. I wish they could make a game that couldnt be cracked. I support the game devs 100%, but i dont see the point, because If something can be written, it can be cracked. Like what has been said before, starforce has been cracked. I also know for a fact that there are keygens that make valid cd keys that can be used on multiplayer. Hell, even windows xp has a keygen that gives valid keys.

Especially for devs to put software protection that conflicts with hardware, when it can be cracked, just dosent make sense to me. Im tellin ya, if I buy GRAW, and it dosent work on my DVD-RAM, im going to use a cracked version. Im not going out and buying a DVD rom cause it dosent work, and Im certainly not missing out because of this stupid starforce, and unfortunately, im sure many others feel the same way. I think its a shame to have to pirate a game if you want to play a game. I would be fine with copy protected software, but I have heard way too many stories of starforce being permanently on the system, conflicting with software and hardware, and being a security hazard.

The sad thing is though, is as long as good people work hard to make games and try to make an honest buck, there will be computer nerds cracking the games to take the game for free.

Remember: DONT COPY THAT FLOPPY!

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Below is an interesting post from the Ubi forums regarding Starfarce. It seems we are going to start having to watch this whole Starfarce thing very closely, since Ubi has become bvery close with this problematic software.

This refers to the Starfarce version in Lockdown, incidentally.

Link to original topic at Ubi forums.

starforce.JPG

Posted 09.March.2006 14:18

    Originally posted by DME_MP:

    Starforce should be removed. Really it prevents the honest consumer from playing the game rather than the hacker/pirate.

    I just bought Lockdown which has starforce. Wouldn't you know my Serial Number has already exceeded the maximum amount of activations. Even though, i have never even played the game or used my serial number for that matter. So, i bought and paid for the game but, i can't play it because, some hacker is probly playing on my serial number and he didn't spend a dime. All while i sit and deal with the problem of buying a game i can't play.

    I don't know but, if you ask me UBI is getting smarter everyday.

    Ive cancelled my GRAW pre-order and if it has startforce, im not even going to waste my money like i have done with Lockdown. Seriously, if UBI wants people to buy their games then they need to act like because, everything they are doing is just the oppposite.

    Flame me if you want but, this is one good reason why Starforce need to gtfo.

Edited by Specter

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